Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

Hi everyone, been lurking for a long time and just wanted to post now. Ironically my marriage to my AS husband just ended this morning. We have no kids. It is (hopefully) going to be an amicable split. It's been a huge struggle throughout our short marriage and relationship, so many ups and downs.

He is from overseas and will be arranging to fly back home at some point, I think he feels quite happy about this so far, he misses his family. I have always been flip flopping about what to do, it's been a massive emotional roller coaster. But something had to give and I think we're both a bit relieved. The stress has been making me ill. We've been pretty much living like roommates the entire time, sex has been very rare and it's awkward when it does happen. He rejects me a lot and then asks me why we never do it! He often sleeps in the spare room for various reasons. His moods are up and down a lot.

I had a cry, it's been hard and he's a good guy despite all the issues and obstacles. I hope he'll be ok, he's always struggled with depression and anxiety. I feel guilty for letting people down in a way and so many people told me he wasn't the one for me and warned me off, with good reason. We had a small wedding just the two of us (we both hate attention and I didn't want to spend loads on one day even if we had loads to spend), I feel guilty that people gave us money and so on. I've told my mother, she was quite angry at him but I said I want to keep things civil so to please not have a go at him.

I guess it's the thought of everyone finding out, I feel quite ashamed. But these relationships are HARD. There's been drama and crazy behaviour throughout, misunderstandings and brain-twisting "logic" that he comes out with. I think I'll need therapy at some point. I doubt I'll have another relationship and for someone who wanted that the very most I'm not even that bothered, I just want my life back now. I think I'd lost myself there.

@RainingRubies I assume you asked for my post to be deleted because I had the temerity to disagree with you. I'd also take a guess that you are not NT in a relationship with an ND partner. I just like to remind you of the following:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

I'll restate: I don't like the term shit partner, it places all the emphasis on the way a person behaves without trying address the difficulties they may face due to an ASC. Autism is a pervasive developmental disorder generally characterised by difficulties in social interactions and communication. I also disagree that it is possible to unpick what is and isn't an ASC behaviour, all behaviour is complex and is a combination of factors.

The relationships we have with our long-term or life partners are unique

Sorry posted too soon.

The relationships we have with our long-term or life partners are unique and the expectations we have of our partners are different to those we have with anyone else. It is the very unique expectations of social interactions and communication between partners that lead to people posting on this thread.

I'll restate: I don't like the term shit partner, it places all the emphasis on the way a person behaves without trying address the difficulties they may face due to an ASC. Autism is a pervasive developmental disorder generally characterised by difficulties in social interactions and communication. I also disagree that it is possible to unpick what is and isn't an ASC behaviour, all behaviour is complex and is a combination of factors.

I think my argument would be is that some of that behaviour may be related to an ASC. But some of it might just be being a pretty terrible partner. Yes it’s complex and messy. But it isn’t necessarily all caused by or even related to ASC.

It can very very helpful to someone to figure out what they’re actually dealing with, and whether being more understanding of their partner’s ASC might be helpful. Because my own experience has been that sometimes people will use an ASC as an excuse for and, indeed, a cover for what is actually just not being very nice on purpose. It’s not that they don’t understand or see things differently. They were looking to hurt me and then act like I was in the wrong for being upset because of their autism. The autism became a way of evading legitimate criticism of their behaviour. And a way of blaming me - because I should be more understanding.

If you preferred you could just think of it as deciding where your boundaries lie and why. But it does matter.

@Mrstiggywinkle44 welcome to the thread. I'm so relieved that you're not offended by the posts. Your situation sounds equally hard and often on this thread I do try to say I see all sides. I find my husband very difficult at times but I also know he's a good man and that's why so many of us stay with our partners because while there's no malice, there's such a strong undercurrent of something that's not right for us, it's hard to ignore. There is something missing and leads to a deep gnawing sense of loneliness and a sensation of having never been truly seen or understood. It's like this journey of parenthood is very much on my own, it's not a partnership with my DH.

Feel free to share your difficulties with your partner if you wish. I also know that autistic people are deeply sensitive and empathetic, I see it in my children repeatedly how deeply they feel and feel for others too. My DS recently gave his football captaincy to his more autistic friend at school. DS has never been football captain but wanted to give it to his friend because he had never experienced it either and is a the bottom of the social pecking order. Very very kind and thoughtful. So yes it's all going on.

RainingRubies

I found it on PubMed. My lived experience of all the people I know who are on the spectrum - well this is the case. It's always the eldest child that is most autistic. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28765079/

Of course there may well be studies that may well suggest the opposite. But so far this is what I have found.

DW and DS have never used their ASC as an excuse for anything. DW has absolutely done some very deliberate hurtful things but I now realise that there was always a shadow of autism to a lesser or greater extent. I just don't think any single behaviour stands on its own.

Devastating to read

@LizCrust I believe first births are generally more difficult, DS1 came out with the placenta round his neck and had to be resuscitated. My understanding is that difficult births are also a risk, so it makes sense.

Would anyone on this thread with autistic children without learning difficulties, say aged 16+ Recommend that they read all these threads?

if so, do you think it would impact them positively?

if not, why not?

It would depend on whether they were interested in the topic of the impact of being in a relationship with an ASD partner on an NT partner, surely?

If they are interested, then yes. If they are not interested, then no.

'Empathy' has cropped up a few times in this thread. I think there's a difference between intuitive empathy and intellectual empathy.

My experience of my DH is that he's not intuitively aware of the impact his words and behaviour have on other people. He doesn't pick up on cues and can't instinctively imagine being them.

But if I can show him he's had an effect, he cares very strongly. He also does plenty of thoughtful and unprompted kind things for people.

@Haffiana

So you believe this thread is representative of all/most ASC/NT relationships? Not just the problematic ones? Surely you must realise a self-selecting group of posters does not constitute valid reflection on the impact of such relationships?

And you don’t think it might just be a little hurtful for your autistic child to read that they “suck all joy out of life”? Or are going to be “shit partners”?

because personally I would not ever want my autistic children to read this thread ever. I care about them too much.

I think people have the spoken about neuro diverse family members with love, not hate.

It is ok to say aspects are difficult. I love my husband and we’ve been married for nearly 40 years. That’s not mutually exclusive to finding his ASD hard.

Equally, he might find comfort in talking with people whose partners have insecure attachment, as I have. That equally causes us difficulties.

Please don’t derail this thread.

Why on earth would your autistic DC think that this thread is about them? Are you seriously implying that all autistic people “suck all joy out of life” or are “shit partners”?

Why are you generalising in this way? Just - why?

This is a thread for people to share their specific personal experiences. Do you want to gag those people or something? Cancel them perhaps?

I don’t think caring and empathy are the same thing.
Its possible to deeply care about someone but being able to imagine what they are going through (empathy).

Also as Brene Brown says, empathy isn’t being able to put yourself in someone else shoes. It’s believing that their view of the world and the way they are experiencing the world is different from yours and that it’s equally valid.
I think that part might be harder for some people on the spectrum. It certainly is for my dh.
tbus doesn’t mean he doesn’t care/love/able to be kind.

@StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople , if my NT dc is reading some if the relationship threads, do you think they will automatically think they are awful bastards that will be abusive to their partners? (I have two boys btw).
Or will they think some NT people are like this. It’s crap. Maybe I need to be careful nit to take my partner for granted.

In the same way, if my ASD dc reads this thread, don’t you think they would have a similar reaction?

@Haffiana

you have misunderstood. It is not me generalising - I totally agree with your revulsion. It is other posters - see for example post made on 27/09/2022 15:39 where “life defined by ASC terms” (ie not specific to her own partner) includes “sucking joy out of life”

perhaps you could report it?

@AsterixInEngland if your DC were reading a thread titled “married to a man, support thread here” then yes they could really get the impression that all marriages to men are awful. MN would never allow a thread titled like that, but the do allow a thread titled “married to someone with Asperger’s, support here”. Do you see the problem now

AsterixInEngland,

Re empathy, that's a much better way of putting it and I like Brene Brown's work 🙂.

@StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople

I can understand why you'd find generalisations upsetting.

However autistic:neurotypical misunderstandings and communication issues ARE very relevant to my relationship problems and I need somewhere to vent and get advice.

I find it reassuring and helpful to feel heard and supported by others going through the same issues.

I love my DH. We also get frustrated by each other. I find his 'All or nothing' thinking too harsh. He thinks my 'shades of grey' approach is too soft.

We both love our DC but when we dig down we want different things for them. He has very set ideas about what's good for them. This inflexibility is his AS brain wiring.

So there's no getting away from it - our very different AS:NT outlooks form a big part of our relationship issues.

@StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople both my autistic son and NT son, both >16 are very well aware of the difficulties between DW and myself.

@StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople

For my two pennorth I’m sorry but I think you’ve misunderstood this thread. It is a support thread for ppl to to be able to vent and share their specific, personal feelings, whatever they may be. I came here and got very good advice, it was not done out of hate, it was done out of love to try and find a way forward with my partner.
Many posts I have read mention the love for partners or children, as I understand it this thread is for ppl to be able to get some empathy, understanding and possibly advice for their situation. Sadly not everyone’s position is a positive one but are these poor people not allowed to voice their feelings, upset and very deeply personal experiences and receive support and understanding simply because their partner happens to be ND? I have found this thread illuminating, my heart goes out to some people for their struggles but not for one second does it make me think that any or all NT partners are shit, uncaring or anything else, that would be a ridiculous conclusion to draw. If anything this thread has made me more aware of what both ND and NT adults have to face on a daily basis, not have hate against anyone.

I think I wonder sometimes about the inflexibility being part of ASD brain wiring or the extent to which. I think it can be a useful excuse for the ASD partner in some cases.

My DH is more likely to fall into that pattern when he's under severe stress. He tries much harder when he's not.

Exactly. As are my kids, one on the spectrum and one not so much. one 14 the other 11. They see how rigid their father is.

and what you forget @StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople is that DHs experience of growing up with ASD was very different to how I’ve raised my kids. They will be different and in my opinion better adjusted to life because I have invested my life and soul into loving them and doing everything I can to help them. DD increasingly feels “normal” to me. I’ve not done anything special to make this happen but being aware and not having to reject oneself and live with PTSD (which I think many autistic people have to deal with from childhood trauma?) through getting a diagnosis is going to change how they function in their relationships.

My husband has sucked all joy out of my life. Yes I’m sure this isn’t just ASD. He’s had a lot of trauma in his childhood due to living in poverty. But the rigidity, the routines, the snapping and barking at me, the quiet fury and sometimes explosive fury, the obsession with work, the compulsive need to be busy, his complete lack of any time spent with me, the obsession with routines and the fallout if we don’t follow to the letter, you can pretend all you like this isn’t ASD related but I’ve been in other relationships so don’t tell me about my lived and very painful experience with this one. I’ve never lived such a structured and solitary life.

and my children are very very aware of how painful that has been for me. To pretend like kids of ASD and NT parents aren’t going to know there are some issues is just insane.

Trying to pass off ASD as not being a cause of difficulty within ND and NT relationships and make out like it’s not an issue is disrespectful to both neurotypes.

We are not the same. There are shades of grey within our neurotypes that overlap but there is also a fundamental black and whiteness, a separation, a difference so large in some areas, that yes it can cause difficulty.

For what it’s worth I don’t blame my husband for being as he is. And that’s part of the sadness too. Its not his fault. So I must shoulder that pain too. I must give up what I need to function and feel good because DH didn’t do anything wrong. It’s the way he’s made. How can I blame him for that. I don’t. Don’t you see how difficult this is to reconcile. Can you see how very sad, how painful it all is for me, for all of us?

perhaps I should phrase it

DH has sucked all the joy out of my life, even though he didn’t mean to and I don’t blame him.

do you sense any malice in my words, ever? There are none. And I feel no malice. Please believe me. Instead it is only sadness and pain and disappointment.

So only one person has said whether they’d be happy to let their autistic children read these threads (to educate them)

no-one else?

Surely you feel there is lots of positivity and love towards autistic people here then you wouldn’t hesitate?

I realise that I’ve been accused of thread detailing so I won’t post again, but please just think about how your autistic child would feel if he/she read these threads. I think you know that they would be incredibly hurt and worried to see the attitude that awaits them in the adult world.

DD increasingly feels “normal” to me

Pretending to be normal is one of the most damaging things an autistic person can do.

autistic people are “normal” too.