Being the ‘secondary’ parent as a Mum?

[nightmareallys]

My DH and I are in the stage of talking about children, and what our lives would like with children. We both currently work full time in similar paying jobs, and I enjoy mine more than him and I have a clearer route of progression and pay rises. It’s also easier in my job for me to move round to different companies - I have a set “role” that many companies use. His job is more specialist and less transferable.

He’s also definitely more excited about being a parent than I am. He’s very family-focussed and loves his nephews and is really excited about parenting. I think I’ll find it much harder as I’m quite selfish and I think I’ll find not putting myself first quite trying at times. My DH is already a very selfless person and does that already often. We’re both keen to avoid nurseries for our child/children until school age (apart from a little socialisation in the year before school), just personal preference based on our upbringings.

Anyway, all this to say it seems to me that the best option for us both may be for me to go back to work at 6 monthsish and for my husband to become the full time, stay at home parent. He has expressed an interest in doing this and we think the finances would work. I’m thinking this would be a good way for me to maintain independence and get to be more of the traditional “Dad” parent - weekends and evenings, not the hard grind of childcare.

My main worry is our relationship would suffer - I read a lot of threads on here from SAHM’s whose husbands are resentful of being the ones to keep the family financially afloat, or SAHM’s complaining working parents don’t do enough to help. I worry about how to navigate that, as I would expect my husband to do the bulk of household jobs and child responsibilities - I will not be doing any nighttime’s when I’m working for example, that’s the point of having someone at home. At the moment that’s fine in principle and we both agree, but clearly a lot of people have found that harder in practice.

Anyway, I’m interested in hearing from women who have been the breadwinner whilst their husband’s have stayed home. Or, I guess, from SAHM’s who can give advice on navigating one working, one staying at home.

I think it's very clear that you don't want children and are only doing it in order to please your husband. I think you are setting yourself up for disaster op I wish you all the best. No man is worth that no matter how nice he is

Based on your general attitude around selfishness, I don't think you're ready to bring a child into the world yet. You will both need to be selfless, always putting your baby before yourself and doing what is best for them.

OP, I do hope you come back and tell us all how it went when you do eventually have kids. I'd love to read about it.

Sorry but if my husband had attempted to set rules about how many groups I went to and how much housework I did as a SAHM, he’d have got short shrift.

@MadeleineBassettHound

I agree with this. I think there’s a tendency for career women to manage the SAHD as though they are still ultimately the head responsible person for the child just as though they were a SAHM. It’s like that natural mothering instinct takes over and manifests itself as being overly controlling of a SAHD who they feel the need to “oversee” to make sure he’s doing the “mum role” as they think it should be done. And Tbh often they need it.

I think it’s a result of fighting nature.

This response shows how unrealistic both of your expectations of parenting are.

Being the stay at home parent IS the full time work, more so than a 9-5. It's often relentless, monotonous and unforgiving, especially in the early days. With respect you don't current have the child so you have no idea what their needs will be. I had one who slept for 3 hours, ate, slept for 3 hours, repeat. And one who was incredibly clingy and wouldn't sleep longer than an 1 at a time day and night.

You need to really reconsider your expectations, regardless who is the stay at home parent (and it doesn't matter tbh), they are likely to need a break as much as, if not more than the working parent. The working parent still needs to step in and do their share otherwise you will have a boiling point of resentment very, very quickly.

It's absolutely fine to plan how you think life will he with a baby, but once the baby arrives reality will be very different. You think you know how you'll feel but once you've given birth, you're holding your baby and you have a rush of hormones going through your body things might feel differently.

I do agree with others that having children when you don't really want them is not the best idea. All children deserve to have a loving and involved mother. Even with a brilliant hands on dad children's mental wellbeing is largely depends on their relationship with their mother.

It's absolutely ok to be a busy career woman and working mum, but you still need to dedicate a significant amount of time and effort into your children.

Re- nightfeeds though, I've fully breastfed both my babies and DH is a surgeon, so I did all the night wakeups on my own and it worked fine for us. If you intended to bottle feed and you should work together to make sure you both get some rest.

Honestly you can plan anyway you want but life has its own ideas. We had everything decided about the way we were going to parent and working hours and not one single thing turned out how I expected. Please really consider if having children is what you really what. There are so many rewards but it's the hardest thing you will ever do. How your you feel if your husband passed away or you split up or if the child has a medical condition or special needs? They are the things people rarely mention but they do happen.

I think that your husband wants a baby when you're are on the fence. Your willing to have a baby once your husband gives up his job to look after the baby when your maternity leave is over. Then you expect him to mind the child, do the majority of the house work, mental load and do the nights as well. Everything has to work around what suits you.

Having a baby will be very different to what you both expect. You expect things to fit in with your life and you husband thinks o baby how lovely but I feel has not got much experience with babies or toddler's. The reality is that once you have a baby that your lives will change and a baby won't always do as you planned. You could have a baby that sleeps or one that cries a lot and stays awake most nights. A lack of sleep will drive both of you mad and if your husband is left dealing with him/her each night I can tell you he will totally resent this.
You won't come home each evening to a clean house, a home cooked meal, the laundry done and a clean, quite baby or child. You can't expect your husband to do all the baby and house things either so when you come home you will have to do your share and give him a break.

I know that you and your husband might like someone to be a full time stay at home parent but long term that could leave you both of you at a disadvantage. If he stays at home you lose his salary. What happens to his pension rights long term? What happens if he wants to go back to work because he needs more than to be with a small child full time?
What happens if you lose your job?

If you and him were to split up he could end up as the main carer, you have to find the money to move out of your current home and pay him child support?

You would be both better off if one of you went PT and used some childcare in order to have a child. You both keep up your ni stamps for a state pension, you both can pay into a pension and long term you have more money especially when you're child gets to secondary school and college age. The reality is that when you have a child life changes. You both have to be willing to work together re getting up at night, doing house work, laundry, life admin ect. Then its important that you both have some baby/child free time because it not always easy being a parent.

My advice is that you don't have a child unless you really want to and your going into having one with your eyes opened. Your bringing a new person into the world and your responsible for them long term. Their are so many people who are now adults and they are dealing with the fallout of knowing that one or both parents did not want them. No one deserves to made felt that they were only born only because one parent wanted them, it was the norm of society or because one or both parents wanted care as they got older.

I have seen the damage this does to a person and it horrible to witness the fallout for all the people concerned.

What’s the plan after the child(ren) goes to school? Would he ever go back into the workforce? Or would you decide that you couldn’t possibly use wrap around care? School hours, term time only jobs are basically non-existent and often poorly paid. Are you prepared to be the sole breadwinner for a decade or more?

What is agreed now and the realism of having a child, are 2 separate things! When a child is up night after night then the SAHP becomes exhausted. Resentment can set in so you definitely need to be more open minded before you start on this!

I think you're hugely underestimating how your own emotions and hormones will may effect things. I'd be very surprised if you're able to sleep through your baby distressed through the night, or happily go to work full time whilst your husband and baby/infant/child form a bond that you're not a part of.

This sounds like my parents. I would hate to have my mum's role. Perhaps you would hate that too? It also put me off having children for a bit. Its incredibly demanding and hard, perhaps in retrospect she is really cool about it but maybe it wasn't fun for her at the time either.

Instead of expecting my partner to do what my mum did (or me doing it), we do things differently. We have more equal roles.

You sound like you are quite strong minded about learning from your upbringing. Just because it's what you had, doesn't mean it's what best for you or indeed anyone else. Perhaps your values are not the same as your parents and you can have a different way of doing things

I think some of your plans are fine, but there is a huge element of naïveté, and an attempt to lock in plans without knowing how things will pan out!

For example, your statement about not doing night wakings during the working week. That’s fine, IF you have a good sleeper. If you have a baby that is sleeping through most nights and your DH is only up on occasion, you’re plan is solid. What happens if that’s not the case? My first child was a particularly terrible sleeper, and I found all my children went through a patch of very poor sleep from around 8-12 months, especially when molars were coming through. If one of us had to do 100% of the night wakings, their physical and mental health would have suffered a lot. Because we aren’t shit humans, we didn’t want that for the other person. We have taken turns at being the breadwinner, but have always made sure neither party suffered extreme sleep deprivation while the other was well rested. You may also find that in the 6-months you are on leave….. it might sound fine to do all the night wakings, but I’m going to guess you aren’t someone who will cope particularly well if you are chronically sleep deprived and walking around like a zombie. When you and your DH are discussing this stuff, you need to bring in more flexibility and a focus on balance and care for each other.

As other posters have said, an emotionally distant mother who is lukewarm on their existence is not a great start for a child. I’d probably be more likely to have conversations for how you will address that (I.e what will you do to bond and connect, what will you enjoy about them, who will you go to for help if you are struggling, where can you go to learn about a child’s emotional needs etc).

Whilst it's sensible to discuss before having kids how you want your lives to be after kids, you are setting way too much store by these discussions. No one can know how they will feel or what they will want their life to be like with kids, until they actually have them. Statements like "we personally don't agree that it's fair for the working parent to do night time wakings" suggest a rigidity of thinking which I guarantee will go out of the window on your DH's part once baby arrives.

Also, you might find that despite your current ambivalence, when you actually have a child, your priorities completely change in a way you never expected. This happened to my most die-hard career-woman friend; a high flying lawyer who jacked it in to be a SAHP after her first child. Previously she'd planned to go back to work after 6 months. 10 years later she still hasn't gone back.

I was also the working parent when DS was pre-school age and I agree with all of this.

I'd add one more thing I often had to wake DH to deal with DS in the night as he genuinely didn't hear him as quick as I did. (Apparently there's a genetic difference in male / female hearing ranges) Eventually I just stopped waking him most of the time as there's no point us both being awake.

I'm pretty sure when you're at work you can go to the loo uninterrupted and you can spend a min or two browsing the internet. You get a lunch break and can chat to colleagues about adult things. You come home in clothes that are basically as clean as when you left the house.

As a SAHM I never get to go to the loo without an audience or someone shouting 'mummy!!!' As soon as I sit down.

Meal times are usually punctuated by requests for something else or something spilled.

I don't get time to just sit and read or do something for me.

When you're at work, you have down time.

That said, part of the 50/50 split at home includes ensuring both parents get time off. My DH split Saturdays usually. One takes the kids in the morning and the other the afternoon. We also try to have an evening gym session each during the week.

However, when he is home he should be able to wipe bums, tidy up after tea, help do bath or story time etc.

My ex-wife and I did this. It didn't work for us, she was completely disconnected and unappreciative. The actual task side was fine compared to my previous business role relatively easy. Made plenty of mum friends. The emotional side of our relationship was destroyed.
There were times when I felt like a single parent. In the end, that's what I opted for.
Never again, DP and I are TTC it'll be a different experience this time around.

I rather feel you aren't taking into account all the variables op and the biggest bag of variables there is - the baby. Planning is a fool's game once you're pregnant, from the birthing plan (how many times does that actually pan out?) to planning whether or not to breast feed, who will look after them etc etc. It's amazing how much of a mini dictator babies actually turn out to be - won't take the bottle, lactose intolerant, only sleeps next to you for example. And that's not to mention physical effects you might be experiencing. Just don't expect them to acquiesce to your rigid plans or needs at all.

To be honest, it doesn’t seem like you even want to have a child. As the child of one parent who clearly did not want them, please don’t. It’s actually horrible to grow up knowing you’re just a nuisance.

To be honest it doesn’t sound like you want to be a mother, so the best advice is don’t be one! Kids are hard hard work, even when they are the light of your life. I’m afraid even if your DH does the lions share you will still have to commit your life to your child and it will change massively.

Really sad to provide a child with a mother who isnt really fussed. Babies aren’t babies for long, being a parent is a lifetime commitment, one which I wouldn’t enter unless you really wanted it.

Logistics are one thing but being a parent is so much more than who provides childcare/pays the bills.

What you are remembering isn't being, say, 2, when your sibling was newborn. If your memories are that clear, I'd say you are probably remembering being about 7 or so. The posters on here aren't talking about parenting competent school-going 7 year olds, but babies.

In the past, some women did do everything at home while their husbands WOH and nothing more. If they were in that traditional and that well-off a household, very often they were never expected to earn and so as the children got older, their lives got a lot easier and they underwent a kind of pay back for those hard years of having babies and toddlers. Some of them were well off enough to have some kind of help from the beginning - a cleaner or mother's help or something. WC women have always been more likely to receive more informal help from family and neighbours - and their husbands - and less likely to drop paid work altogether - many families have been kept going simply by all the adults working ridiculously hard, all the time. I know lots of women who just expected their own mothers to take the baby several mornings a week and catch up on sleep - and they did, it was part of how they hung together as extended families and made things work.
What you are describing sounds unworkable to me, and logically incoherent, because you're describing centering your relationship with your husband as a priority above your children, at the same time as describing a set up which you have constructed to have a comfortable life at his expense. It's quite chilling to read it set out like that, like you've said the quiet part out loud - I think a lot of men think like you and would never admit it. What they haven't processed is that they don't love their spouse that much. They love how they make their life better. When they stop doing that, they love them a lot less. And it doesn't last.

I think you may well find that the reality is either you (come to) love your husband and your future children in practice, when it comes to it, with a depth and authenticity and generosity that makes your current plan just look childish and stupid, and it just gets thrown out of the window; or, you and your husband aren't going to make it as a couple.

I’d take this with a pinch of salt @nightmareallys . At two weeks I was still recovering from birth and totally occupied with the newborn feed/ wind/ nappy/ sleep cycle - and I had a fairly smooth birth, an easy baby (feeding and sleep wise), and was formula feeding so didn’t have to do every feed. I’d be showered and dressed, but that was it.

Likewise, you remember your mum being on top of everything at home so your dad didn’t need to do anything and weekends were free of housework. As people have said, you are clearly not remembering the baby and toddler years. I expect being a SAHP is easy when your children are older and more independent, and they’re out of the house at school for a lot of the day. For a lot of people, a couple of years as a SAHP while the children are at school is the reward for the hard slog of the pre-school years! Did your mum ever go back to work?

You can do whatever you like. People can reel off all the reasons it may not work, such as

Men tend to have a provider urge and hold self-esteem value around this

Women have maternal instinct and you may find you don't want to leave your baby

Baby may not want you to leave
I don't agree the stay at home parent should expect housework help. I expect no housework help because you get a system going and if he tries to interfere it puts things out of whack. The house is my area and paying the bills is his. It's simpler and takes one responsibility completely off the other, but you must ensure he understands this obligation and is going to perform. The last thing you want is to come home to more work when you've been working all day.

Presumably you want to come home and enjoy the baby for a good few hours. He needs to be on the ball. I don't agree that caring for your child and home is work in the same way a job is.

At home you have all day to get what you need done. I work from home around 2 - 6 hours a day and even then I still do all the housework and things with our child because it's not a chore, I enjoy both because I love my home and child.

So if he has no work at all he can 100% keep the house clean and tidy, entertain the child, cook dinner, and that's no hassle at all. If I can do it anyone can because I consider myself quite lazy.

Be clear about what you each expect of each other and agree, then do it, and live your life as you want to.

I wouldn't swap places with my husband. I love spending all day with our child, and when she goes to school next year I'm going to use the free time to work on some projects and maybe even earn some money via those.

He will enjoy those years so much just him and baby and their bond will be amazing. It's a gift to be able to do that and keeping the home perfect for you is a wonderful trade off.

Hi OP
I think you really need to wait till you have the baby till you make all these plans
The reason mums normally stay at home is because we are designed to want to be near our children. So you may have these grand plans and then you decide you actually do want to be the SAHM .

For your comment about when people who work have down time, they have a lunch break, I am on maternity leave, and can say I have not stopped all day in my babies naps I have cleaned the house. The house still needs the dish washer loaded the washing done, and DH will do this when he comes home as well as the cooking, because my focus will still be on DS

In my experience being a SAHP means you keep the children fed and entertained, your not a cleaner ... if you get house work done, fab, however cleaning is a 50/50 task just if both parents worked would be.