Being the ‘secondary’ parent as a Mum?

[nightmareallys]

My DH and I are in the stage of talking about children, and what our lives would like with children. We both currently work full time in similar paying jobs, and I enjoy mine more than him and I have a clearer route of progression and pay rises. It’s also easier in my job for me to move round to different companies - I have a set “role” that many companies use. His job is more specialist and less transferable.

He’s also definitely more excited about being a parent than I am. He’s very family-focussed and loves his nephews and is really excited about parenting. I think I’ll find it much harder as I’m quite selfish and I think I’ll find not putting myself first quite trying at times. My DH is already a very selfless person and does that already often. We’re both keen to avoid nurseries for our child/children until school age (apart from a little socialisation in the year before school), just personal preference based on our upbringings.

Anyway, all this to say it seems to me that the best option for us both may be for me to go back to work at 6 monthsish and for my husband to become the full time, stay at home parent. He has expressed an interest in doing this and we think the finances would work. I’m thinking this would be a good way for me to maintain independence and get to be more of the traditional “Dad” parent - weekends and evenings, not the hard grind of childcare.

My main worry is our relationship would suffer - I read a lot of threads on here from SAHM’s whose husbands are resentful of being the ones to keep the family financially afloat, or SAHM’s complaining working parents don’t do enough to help. I worry about how to navigate that, as I would expect my husband to do the bulk of household jobs and child responsibilities - I will not be doing any nighttime’s when I’m working for example, that’s the point of having someone at home. At the moment that’s fine in principle and we both agree, but clearly a lot of people have found that harder in practice.

Anyway, I’m interested in hearing from women who have been the breadwinner whilst their husband’s have stayed home. Or, I guess, from SAHM’s who can give advice on navigating one working, one staying at home.

"Also, when a baby is screaming through the night, you can't just sleep through it anyway. "

Hah! My exH used to wake up exclaiming how well the kids had slept - whilst I'd been up all night tag-teaming them (and I worked as well!!)

I think you need to accept that both are full time jobs, only SAHP job does not finish at 5.
Once you are home from work, it needs to be shared 50:50 so one person is not relaxing in front of the TV while the other is still folding washing.

night wakings and weekend sleep ins need to be shared.
I think some SAHP work much longer days than those who go to work.

@nightmareallys - the share of night time wakings is definitely possible with many full time jobs (though not all - shift work, high safety requirement jobs, long commute). It doesn’t have to be an even split (can be 90/10 or other one takes over after primary carer has tried for 2hrs), but unless you have an understanding that it can be exhausting and dangerous to have an over-tired childcarer, things will be difficult.

sometimes babies don’t really let you put them down (depends on baby), so reduce your expectations for what can be done while sahp is at home.

be ready to switch things up (eg change chores round or consider nursery some mornings) if things aren’t working out.

Discuss finances, save money, consider life insurance (if breadwinner gets ill), put money into DH pension and make sure he can keep up skills or re-train so that it would be easier to re-enter work force if wanted/needed.

This is a conversation around how best for me to parent them, whilst our relationship is my primary concern.

I think you are coming across as a bit naïve. Tbh. Wether you want children and wether you can get over centering yourself, will hugely impact both your parenting AND your relationships.

Most people will also find that the relationship with their partner is not a primary concern when the baby comes. Certainly not over how to be a good parent.

I absolutely understand you are happy with your choice. But, not many relationships where someone has children just for the other person are sunlight and roses. Resentment is likely to figure quite highly so you need a way of working that out. Especially since, as the woman, your career, your body, potentially long term health will be impacted
purely by you just being pregnant and giving birth.

I'm a sahm, and I think your expectations are quite off.

If you expect your husband to do most household jobs, and night wakings and look after the kids, I don't think it will work.

Yes obviously as a stay at home parent, you can get a fair amount of household stuff done, but you are doing childcare! Would you expect nursery staff to also do a load of other jobs while looking after your child? No. So it's unreasonable to think that a stay at home parent, who has full time child care responsibilities, will do all the household stuff as well, while you get to do the bare minimum. Night waking wise, oh it's so easy to plan that in advance, but the reality is vastly different! Take it from someone who had a kid who didn't sleep through until they were three. It absolutely breaks you!

Being a sahp has many advantages but it is hard going at times too, can be isolating and relentless, and if you and your partner aren't on the same page and willing to be flexible and empathetic to the others experiences, it's a recipe for disaster.

Oh and if you are so convinced the sister in laws ‘it’s so easy’ line is accurate, you have it in the bag. You have good role models right there.

We did this on and off for several years. I found that the reality was that the children were very clingy whenever I wasn't working, so impossible to get the kind of distance you're describing. I'm not overly maternal but did miss them so was happy to do bathtimes and stuff. The fact is couples share (or are expected to at least!) the load more these days whether they're working or not.
My husband managed fine, we were in big cities so not so much emphasis on mum/baby activities so that can vary.
I think all arrangements can affect your relationship, not necessarily this one more than any other (times when we've both worked full-time have definitely taken more of a toll).

I'm a SAHM and my DH does lots of housework and as soon as he comes home, he's full on with the kids. Parenting is a 24/7 job. You don't get to skip nights and stuff just because you've got a job.

Agree with the PP who said dads are still scarce at playgroups and stuff so he would have to put more effort in to form a social group. I’m in London and when I had DD1 8yrs ago there were no dads, with DD2 4yrs ago a few and they seem to increase each year but still not many. And a lot of mums seem to not talk to the poor buggers either, I remember when second child was about 2 there was this one dad at a group I went to and he just got ignored, I always went out of my way to talk to him!

My DH was a stay at home Dad up until both our children went to school. I did take maternity leave with both but after that I went to work full time and he did the child care.

We talked about it all in a lot of detail before committing. I made it clear that he would need to take on the bulk of the household responsibilities and mental load. He was fine with this and fully entered into the role. He never cared about being the only man at playgroup’s. He made some excellent friends with local mum and dads . He is a laid back friendly person. I would say that you have to be pretty open if you want to make friends and find parents to hang out with.

I look back now and really appreciate that I had a fairly long maternity leave with each child. I cherished having the time with my babies and getting to do a few things like go to baby classes. After a year I was definitely happy to go back to work and hand the baby to DH. With the second I had a shorter maternity leave which was quite sad but I had to get back to work for financial reasons.

For us it really worked. I don’t think men fully understand the stress of parenting unless they have spent significant time solely responsible for their children. I am always shocked when friends have partners who refuse to be on their own with the kids!

The only challenge we had was me finding time for my own interests. I always felt guilty if I wanted to go to the gym or see friends on the weekend. We had to work hard to find fair ways to get personal time. The key is to try and keep it fair.

Now the children are older we both work. I have found this quite a hard adjustment as I now have to pick up more household responsibilities!

I did night feeds as I breast fed but stopped after a year. All nighttime wakings were then DHs job!

Parenting in theory is quite different to parenting in real life.
It's a really good idea to talk about this before you have kids to make sure you're broadly on the same page.
I think some of your expectations are unrealistic. Better to think that a SAHP is also working full time so that the work outside of your respective jobs is shared. Even if you are the only one earning, you're both working.
There is still some stigma to being a SAHD and he may not find baby groups as welcoming. My DH worked part time and cared for his older kids while his wife worked full time. After they split she admitted she actually resented the additional time he had with the kids and hated working full-time but didn't feel she could say so.
It can work, but I think you should both be a bit more flexible in your attitudes.

I actually find days when I'm at work easier and less busy / tiring than when I have days at home with my DD! Don't have the perception that a SAHP is necessarily "easier". It's way more full time than my job.

Just throwing this in the mix here - both go part time?

Sounds good. It's not forever and he can return part time then full time to the work place. He needs to protect his pension but apart from that 8 years or so out of the work place is a good idea

I am a full time working parent after going back when baby was 7 months old. I had a long commute pre COVID up to 4 hours a day and now have swapped the commute for business travel approx once a month.
my partner is not career orientated and had multiple low paid jobs before we meet so naturally out of necessity I needed to return to work.
A couple of things I would say:

1. both you and him will need a break, so don’t discount nursery/childminder even for a couple of sessions a week. This will allow him a break and subsequently he can take baby part of weekend so you can get a break. As people say being a parent is hard relentless and much more stressful than a FT job.
2. I outsource cleaning/ironing to a housekeeper and still do all the mental load associated with a house and parenting e.g buying school uniform, booking workmen, organising repairs although O/H is getting better at that.
3. lower your expectations and don’t think they will parent how you want. My O/H is a wonderful parent but does not do crafts/ learning/groups. Therefore I outsource this to nursery part time to allow socialisation and development. We often laugh that the child is raised through watching Jeremy Clarke on Top Gear! I did feel resentment at first as I felt I took all the stress and responsibility for everything and missed time with baby, however now as Salary has increased and I can outsource I think it works pretty well.

@summerlovinvibes we’ve talked about both going part time! I think in a really perfect world that’s what we’d both do but it doesn’t work practically. Working only 2 or 3 days a week would harm both our careers and for me would make the promotions harder to get, meaning my salary wouldn’t increase as much as hoped. I think in terms of family life that would be perfect though. Maybe one day!

So you won't help out at the weekend or do night wakes even if your poor husband is on his knees? Honestly, I would not have kids with you. You're far too rigid and unrealistic as to the realities. Your thinking needs to be far more one of team working with the overall good of the whole family as your aim. It's not about you drawing firm boundaries as to what you wont do. The realities of family life are far messier than you allow for.

In the nicest way possible op, I don’t think you should be even considering having children with your attitude and unrealistic expectations. I’ve got 3 children and done it all, been a full time sahp, worked full time while my partner stayed at home, and worked part time and shared the childcare. Hands down being a full time parent was the hardest. It’s relentless, especially when you’re going through months of teething and sleep regression. You can agree on what you think is fair all you like before you have it, but I’m telling you now when your partner is the one dealing with every single night shift and then having the baby every full working day, they’ll be backtracking on every one of these pre made agreements sharpish. Looking after a baby or even a toddler all day every day is just as hard as working a full time job. I actually found it harder as it’s so much more mentally and emotionally draining, with a nice sprinkle of constant parent guilt having to make the bulk of decisions of raising a child. You don’t get to both work full time, but you get to refuse most of the parental responsibilities because you work outside of the house.

I find being at work MUCH easier than looking after my 15 month old.

Irrespective of if it’s mum or dad working, their job is for 8 hours a day. So the other parent’s “job” is to look after the baby for 8 hours a day. Evening, nights and weekends are shared in our house. Why should one person work 8 hours and the other work 24hrs?

The parent at work can have a nice cup of coffee at their desk if they’ve had a disturbed night. The parent at home can’t stop running around after the baby/toddler.

Also housework is shared. Of course you can do a few bits while the baby is napping but you’re going to be busy looking after the baby. Most of it will be done outside working hours - one of you looks after the baby, one of you does the housework.

I know it’s hard to visualise before you have children, but I think when you’re on maternity leave you’ll start to think more along the lines of what I’ve said!

This. Everyone but the op can see how clearly how tits up this is going to go. And going by her attitude on here you can already see her response to her partner being at breaking point with a distressed baby- ‘well you wanted it and this is what you agreed to, so deal with it’! This woman has more red flags than a rodeo, if it was a man saying this everyone on here would be calling him abusive/controlling and telling his wife to leave him!

I did all the night wakings when I was a SAHM. I know on MN that's seen as appalling but it worked for us and among my friends it was the norm (I even have friends who slept with their babies while their working husband slept in another room to avoid being disturbed by the noise). You can do it however you want. DH also didn't do any full-on housework (obviously he's empty the dishwasher if he was around or whatever)- we had a cleaner once a week throughout and I did the rest.

I don't see why your relationship would suffer as long as you respect the contribution and sacrifice that your husband is making. You also need to think about things like his financial situation (pension etc), the impact on his career and what he can do to keep up to date with his industry so that he can get back in- same points as for a SAHM really.

SAHPing can be isolating and I think that probably goes double for dads. A friend of mine (a gay man who has adopted with his husband) who is a SAHD tells me that women can be pretty hostile at mum and baby groups etc, which makes things quite difficult.

I'd also be open to the idea that you might feel differently when the baby is here to how you feel now and how you would navigate that.

Similar to @stackhead . I'm the sole earner, DH is a SAHD (he does a few hours a month self-employed from home). He felt isolated as he struggled to make friends with mums at baby groups - he was almost always the only dad. His mental health is much worse now.

I did virtually ALL the night-wakings, even while working. I was breastfeeding (DS wouldn't take a bottle) and it would comfort him in the night - I went back at 5 months. DH literally couldn't comfort him once he'd woken. Even if he did go in to DS, I was still woken by DS crying so it was a disturbed sleep, so I might as well go in and settle him quickly.

I definitely resent having to go to work and bringing in all the money. I feel like I'm either at work or being Mum - DS is essentially glued to me the moment I get home. I get little downtime, unlike DH when DS is at nursery. I miss him when I'm at work but when I'm home I get too much of him (if you know what I mean!)

I think you can make plans, but with the best will in the world, you've no idea what it'll be like once the baby is born. Wait until you're a month or three into maternity leave and then see how you feel.

My DH is forces and and we live away from camp so I'm the opposite end. I don't work so have / had them 24/7 doing everything myself. I'm not career focused though.

From the child’s perspective if the parents have chosen the one SAHP plus one full time working parent model I don’t think it makes the blindest but of difference to the children which is which.

I wouldn’t get too fussed about the baby group gender imbalance either- that stage is over pretty quickly and I never felt the need to socialise within them much other than maybe a chat while walking home in the same direction afterwards.

Night wakings don’t last all that long either in the grand scheme of things.

In my son’s class at school we have one Dad who is the primary parent- wife has a very senior position at work. He’s the one on the class WhatsApp, does all the pickups and drop offs and child-admin. He does work too, but part time. He’s definitely not socially excluded by the Mums, and actually the full time working Dads turn up more frequently than you might think.

This is just observation. We have a different model- only one child by circumstance, but it actually fits our attitude to parenthood quite well when we look at others with two or more. Husband I are both senior and progressing in our careers but we both work flexibly to cover pickups and drop offs between us. I need work to keep me engaged with the world and give me a sense of purpose, and I enjoy it. We could afford for one of us not to work but I would be a worse parent if I were an SAHP and DH would say the same. Your husband needs to be sure that not working is the right thing for his mental health. It’s not a bad thing for your child(ren) to see the model of both parents working.

I saw this after I posted. Just to clarify, we both work flexibly in terms of hours and office vs WFH but DH is full time and I am 4 days a week.

This is brilliant.