Being the ‘secondary’ parent as a Mum?

[nightmareallys]

My DH and I are in the stage of talking about children, and what our lives would like with children. We both currently work full time in similar paying jobs, and I enjoy mine more than him and I have a clearer route of progression and pay rises. It’s also easier in my job for me to move round to different companies - I have a set “role” that many companies use. His job is more specialist and less transferable.

He’s also definitely more excited about being a parent than I am. He’s very family-focussed and loves his nephews and is really excited about parenting. I think I’ll find it much harder as I’m quite selfish and I think I’ll find not putting myself first quite trying at times. My DH is already a very selfless person and does that already often. We’re both keen to avoid nurseries for our child/children until school age (apart from a little socialisation in the year before school), just personal preference based on our upbringings.

Anyway, all this to say it seems to me that the best option for us both may be for me to go back to work at 6 monthsish and for my husband to become the full time, stay at home parent. He has expressed an interest in doing this and we think the finances would work. I’m thinking this would be a good way for me to maintain independence and get to be more of the traditional “Dad” parent - weekends and evenings, not the hard grind of childcare.

My main worry is our relationship would suffer - I read a lot of threads on here from SAHM’s whose husbands are resentful of being the ones to keep the family financially afloat, or SAHM’s complaining working parents don’t do enough to help. I worry about how to navigate that, as I would expect my husband to do the bulk of household jobs and child responsibilities - I will not be doing any nighttime’s when I’m working for example, that’s the point of having someone at home. At the moment that’s fine in principle and we both agree, but clearly a lot of people have found that harder in practice.

Anyway, I’m interested in hearing from women who have been the breadwinner whilst their husband’s have stayed home. Or, I guess, from SAHM’s who can give advice on navigating one working, one staying at home.

@MolliciousIntent

Your husband is one man - I said men en mass. And also your situation is still playing out so you can’t really refute what I’ve said yet

Have you read any of my other posts? I really don't think you should be having kids. You don't want them enough, and they deserve better.

I can absolutely refute what you say. It's bollocks.

@Tamzina my husband wanted the role, he used to get really pissed off when people though he was at a baby group under duress! Some men do genuinely enjoy taking care of small children.

However now my kids are older we are both back at work. I think these discussions get hung up on a SAHP being a lifetime role.

One benefit we found was that my DH was able to pick up his career a lot easier. I think if I had left work I wouldn’t been able to maintain my career in the same way.

I never found my DH unattractive because he wanted to be a SAHP for a few years. I find that he values family life and time so much more then my friends partners do. His involvement really cemented us as a unit. We also understand the roles from both perspectives.

@MolliciousIntent Yes I’ve read your other posts, I am able to agree with your post about your husband whilst not agreeing with your opinion on whether I should have children.

Honestly? I appreciate your view but I have made a decision to have children (as long as I am able to) and this post won’t change my mind.

I’m a SAHM and my DH has always shared nighttime wakings. He works in an office during the day. I look after a baby (well, toddler now) during the day. Neither is more deserving of a full nights sleep. With two parents sharing the load, we both get enough rest to feel human.

There’s no resentment in our relationship… but that’s because both our roles are seen as equal, we share money 100%, and my DH doesn’t try to shirk parenting duties when he’s not at work.

If you’re hoping to just enjoy the fun bits of having children whilst your partner does the hard work, I think there’s a big chance of resentment building.

I'm not sure you do agree with me- my main point was that people make sexist assumptions about SAHDs, not that those assumptions are correct (notwithstanding that some SAHDs do fit the stereotype).

@MolliciousIntent

No you can’t, your speaking from your experience and I’m speaking from what I’ve seen. And you can’t refute that men en mass won’t want to be SAHD, you don’t know one way or another.

Personally I think they won’t, most aren’t cut out for it and won’t be, we’re different (men and women). Nature will out.

But you needn’t feel so attacked I fully support you and your DH. It’s wonderful that those men who want to take on a more feminine role are able to do so now instead of being shamed. I just don’t think that’s ever going to be for most men. No need to argue I wish you and your husband the best.

We’re not planning on having kids for 2-3 years so we won’t be going down to 1 income during this awful upcoming crisis (I’m hopeful that we won’t be in such a bad situation in a few years but who knows!) And the plan would definitely be that DH would return to work part time when child is at school, and then hopefully move up to full time eventually. Very interesting that your husband found it easier to go back to work @Brokenwashingbasket - it doesn’t surprise me.

I don't think there is anything wrong with dad being the stay at home parent.
But having dc if you aren't really keen is totally daft.
Particularly as a woman because it is your body that has to grow and birth them with all the potential permanent changes that can bring.
You are person likely to have PND.
If you separate you are statistically highly likely to be left with the dc.
If your dc has a disability then a hands off approach simply won't be a viable choice.
Parenting can be very rewarding but it can't be micromanaged in advance of having a dc.

@nightmareallys, you are planning for one sort of scenario. And you are adamant that nothing will change your mind. I think most of us parents had preconceived ideas before we experienced the reality.
But what if you have twins, or a baby with medical needs, a colicky baby, a baby with reflux and so on.
After 4 children, I would say the biggest strength you need as a parent is flexibility.

I really am willing to be flexible, I don’t know where I’ve acted like I’m not! If we have a child with different needs we’ll have to asses the situation as we go, obviously. I’m not an idiot.

OP we have done both. DH stayed home most of the time with DS1 and just worked an evening and one weekend day. It made financial sense at the time. The upside was he got to spend a lot of time with DS1. The downside i found was though he kept the house tidy I had to clean it and often ended up cooking. He also found toddler groups intimidating and unwelcoming as a man but that was 10 years ago in a small cliquey area. As a result he didn't really take ds to them and D's struggled socially much more than my other kids. I also ended up exhausted though my cleaning standards are higher than DH. He would never clean a cupboard or skirting board for example.

We have since had 2 more kids and DH works full time and me weekends. It works better but I do the bulk of the housework, gardening, school runs, homework, toddler groups etc. However this became too much as it got to the point I was doing everything while he was sitting at night I was cleaning till 9.30 and organising lunches etc so put a stop to this.

In my experience it can work but you need to set rules for example:

1.He must take the child to X amount of toddler groups or activities with other kids a week so the little one gets interaction. For his and your child's sake he needs to get out and about a bit.

1. Set rules about housework and what you expect and needs done, who does the shopping, errands etc. You need to find a middle ground here.

1. Agree that you both discuss how it's going and support each other. You may feel very different once you have had a baby leaving it. I was not that bothered about having kids but love being a mum and prefer being the stay at home parent and to be honest am better at being at home as I am more organised and keep busy.

1. Agree about money in advance. Ie what is your budget. We don't really discuss day to day expenditure as I look after finances and buy what the kids need etc but any larger expenditure I run past DH just so we can ensure both of us are aware of what is coming out of the bank account and what's left.

1. What will happen if he doesn't enjoy being at home? Will he or you go part time and put the little one in nursery? This is important as if he doesn't like it or situation changes its helpful to have discussed this.

Good luck

@Dillidilly I’m not entirely sure what difference twins or a colicky baby or a baby with different medical needs makes to our plans though - I will still take maternity leave and my husband will still take on a SAHD role. As would happen the other way around in most cases.

The thing to remember is that if you employed people to do the job of a SAHP who covered everything, you would need a day nanny, a night nanny and a cleaner/housekeeper. You would also have to do it all yourself or pay even more at the weekend. Obviously, that isn’t realistic for most people but it is worth remembering that if you want everything done perfectly at home, you would need to employ 3 people. I think this is where the resentment kicks in with some people. The person at work isn’t doing the job of 3 people but resents having to do anything to help out. The person at home feels inadequate because they are struggling to keep on top of it all and they are being treated like a financial burden. It works better if everyone helps out and no one has unrealistic expectations.

Are you sure you actually want children op? It's ok to not want them. It sounds like you're not overly keen , don't want to do any hard stuff but are willing to grow him one and you'll pitch your and in at the weekend. Plenty of men do similar, but i don't have much respect for them and i don't think they're great parents.

I would expect my husband to do the bulk of household jobs and child responsibilities - I will not be doing any nighttime’s when I’m working for example, that’s the point of having someone at home. I presume then for the first six months that you expect to do every single wake up every evening for the whole six months? You don't expect him to pitch in if you're tired of its the 4 month regression, on weekends or if he takes a holiday?

It is worth considering that while you are currently only thinking about having dc because it meets a need for your DH these are going to be sentient beings in their own rights.

It would be damaging to them to have a parent who doesn't really want them in their lives. Some kids do have this obviously and they manage but it isn't good for them.

Later on they will be adults who have an equal relationship with you and likely in the future responsibility for your care.

Your original post was about your relationship with your DH and it will change profoundly because it's focus will change to looking after dc first rather than each other. Not that you don't look after each other but it is no longer the primary focus.

Well, for a start if you have twins you're going to both be pitching in with night feeds, surely?
And the with the other needs I listed, you can't leave one person to deal with those all on their own.

Even with a singleton baby with no specific needs, you will have evenings and nights where they cluster feed, are completely unsettled, need to be walked up and down constantly, etc. That's just how it is with any and every baby. I mean, you can insist the SAHP deals with all that because you are working. But you won't have a fair or happy partnership.

I agree. Women carry the baby, give birth, have the pregnancy/ childbirth/ postpartum hormones, and have their bodies changed permanently even if your pregnancy and birth are straightforward. You may find yourself changing your mind about all your plans once you have the baby.

I also think it’s easier for a man to be an uninvolved dad than for a woman to be an uninvolved mum, even with more men taking on more of the parenting role over the past 10-20 years. Society doesn’t expect as much of dads as it does of mums.

There are probably lots of men who weren’t that bothered about having children but agreed because their partners wanted children, like you have, on the understanding that their partners would do most of the work and be happy with that arrangement.

So in theory it should be the same for you and your DH, but I think there’s something about the mother-child bond that would make it different, that it’s more damaging to have a distant mother than a distant father. It’s hard to put into words.

I'm a full time working mum and my DH is a SAHD, although this isn't always how we've done it. It doesn't work that one person's role is the kid and the other's is the job and they don't overlap. So I did a year's maternity (would have preferred shared parental leave but DH's work didn't offer enhanced package), then worked part-time until DD at school. I then got a better full time job, he took early retirement and is now a SAHD. So he still has an 'income'.

We still split chores between us as a baby is a lot more work than a full time job. So eg DH carried on doing all the cleaning even when I was on maternity leave. He did all cooking and laundry for first month, then I took those over. We've always tried to keep a fairly equal amount of childfree 'free' time for both of us. I also used to hand baby DD over to him for a few hours when he got in from work because I was desperate for a break and it's important for him to spend time with her. I did night wakings (combi-fed baby) but he would sleep next to her in the spare room one night a week so I could get a full night's sleep in once a week. And he would sometimes need to take a day off work if I was ill so someone needed to look after DD.

Now with me working full time and DH at home - he does all cleaning and laundry, kid admin (school stuff, dentist, haircuts etc) and some of the house admin. We share school event attendance between us. Any night wakings (she's 6yo now so not often but heat, illness, nightmares have all happened in last month!) we tend to take it in turns - you wake up anyway if they yell for you.

I'm a SAHP and my husband still does a lot of night wakes/housework/cooking. I tend to jump up first in the night but he's a good one and actually sends me back to bed, his words "I get a break time at work, you don't if you're at home all day with DD (2)"

I completely see his point and think it's a good one, but if it's a rough night (has been lately due to the heat) then we swap over at some point so he's got rest too 😊 this was all his choice, I'd never just expect him to do the night wakes (rare now but do happen) but he likes to, who am I to stop him! 😆

I'm the "breadwinner" in our family with 2DC and my DH has been a SAHP since I went back to work when our older DC was 5 months old over 16 years ago. I have had a higher salary since we met. I was also ambivalent about children but I was happy to have them because my DH wanted children. I'm glad I did - they are brilliant.

I can't really remember a lot about night waking after I went back to work so I was probably really lucky. I breastfed until mine were 2 years old so I would have been waking in the night some of the time, but it's much easier than sorting out formula. You may find that your sleep is disturbed even if it isn't you that has to get up and make a bottle and feed the baby and change the nappy and settle the baby down again.

My DH does have a part time job where he can choose his hours which he usually does at weekends, and several hobbies. The upside to that is that he keeps his own identity outside of being a dad. The downside is that when the DC were younger I felt that I didn't get any time for me because I had the children on my own almost every weekend. This has really been the only area of friction.

He does most household chores: all grocery shopping, most of the cooking, gardening, laundry and cleaning. I do most of the admin: online banking, appointments, booking holidays, gift buying, etc.

When our younger DC started school he tried going back to work full time, but after a couple of years we found that accounting for paying for after-school childcare and holiday clubs and car mileage we were about £10/week better off with him working. He didn't really enjoy his job so it just wasn't worth it for us for the inconvenience.

Overall it's worked really well for us because my DH isn't a lazy fucker that expected me to do everything.

You can't see why the SAHP might need more support if you have a baby with medical needs who say needs extra monitoring through the night, feeds overnight through an NG, etc., or multiples? It's beyond your imagination why two 7 month old babies screaming simultaneously might require 2 parents to help? Or that one in hospital and one at home means they need a parent each?

That when he's done a week of no more a few hours sleep a night that he might need a partner who steps up?

I chose him and children over no more him, I love him so much and he’s so perfect in every way for me. I couldn’t give him up so I’m happy to have children and I think we’ll be fine - he’ll be a great parent and I’ll be an OK one and we’ll be able to provide It's not a puppy. You can't just be ambivalent in a corner and think that you aren't affecting the emotional health of a human being you've chosen to create.
This is a conversation around how best for me to parent them, whilst our relationship is my primary concern. And how will you feel when your relationship isn't HIS primary concern? When he see's the impact of a not very engaged mother on his precious child? When there's someone he loves and puts before you? And yes, i'd say the same to any man brave enough to admit he's willing to give his partner a kid so long as he doesn't have to do too much because his marriage matters more than his future kid(s)

😂😂😂

Not read the full thread but I'm a SAHM and DH works full time.

First and most importantly - we share night wakings. Get this idea that you won't do them when you're working out of your head. It's shit like that that really gets up people's bum. Being a SAHP is a full day job.

I breastfed so while they were feeding I did all night wakings BUT when they stopped night wakings are done in turns. Tbf there aren't that many now, but we split them.

Second - tell work you're taking 12 months leave even if you don't plan to do that. It's much easier to shorten leave than extend it. It will give you options in case you do a full 180. Plus, it's your leave, you earnt it. You're not going to get to take it again so why not. If your DH gives up work before you go back you can have some family travel time too.

Next, before he becomes a SAHP talk about working hours. He is 'working' from as soon as you go to work to when you get back. That means when you're home you're a parent too. You have to do your fair share including giving him time to do stuff by himself.

He should be able to go out and not have to give you a ton of instructions for caring for your child.

You need to talk money. Apply for child benefits in his name to protect his NI contributions. Set up a private pension for him that your contribute to. Work out how you'll manage money in general.

Talk through every chore that needs doing to run the house. While it's true he will do the lions share, you should retain some household chores and agree to not make life harder for him.