To think most men aren’t cut out for relationships?

[Curiousturle]

Most men don’t seem to be good at being partners, let alone the cheating, affairs, constantly on the look out for younger, prettier models etc ? Given half the chance most would shag around and so many look at porn, use sex workers etc. Many are selfish, don’t pull their weight at home etc

I pretty much agree with the OP, although there's a few different ways of looking at it. The OP assumes (reasonably enough, since this is by an large a women's board) a model of relationships based on what women mostly want. In that sense, yes, men are mostly not up to the task.

Most men can't really handle sexual monogamy. Sometimes they spin a line to women they get into relationships with to disguise this fact, sometimes they're more open but women hear what they want to hear. Once in relationships, they manage the internal conflict of this in various ways. Some cheat. Some use porn. Again though, whether that means they "aren't cut out for relationships" depends on what you assume as the basis for relationships. Some women exclude all porn from that, some have no problem with it. Some couples even have open relationships.

I don't think marriage was ever really designed around male monogamy. It was a patriarchal invention in which women were expected to put out on demand and then be perfectly monogamous while they devoted their energies to raising children, while men (if they could afford it) had mistresses or prostitutes.

Interestingly most studies show that the number of men and women who cheat in relationships is not much different. (There's usually a slighter higher percentage of men, but not by much).

@Fifteentoes yes I agree - I don't think it's just sexual monogamy though , it's the sheer amount of men expecting sex on tap too if in a relationship ,regardless of what's going on in life . I do know there are some women with higher sex drives than men but if mumsnet is representative they are dwarfed by the numbers of men with considerably higher sex drives, particularly after kids or when it gets to menopause.

@Crikeyalmighty Yep, certainly true. "Expecting sex on tap" is a rather simplistic way of putting it though. There's no end of threads on here from women bemoaning the fact that they want a sex life with their partner but he's not interested, and being encouraged to leave him and seek it elsewhere. Noone accuses them of expecting sex on tap.

Most couples enter relationships having regular sex with each other, with an implicit understanding that that will continue. (They don't keep approaching each time they have sex as if it were the first time with someone new). As you say it's more often (though far from always) the woman who decides she doesn't want that understanding any more.

If you include that understanding as one of the defining characteristics of a relationship (as society largely does in many ways, and people mostly do as relationships start) then you could turn this on its head and say "women aren't really cut out for relationships, are they?"

Yes, women are cheating, it's common knowledge: work events, girls' nights out, etc.
A whole plethora of husbands/partners who are wine bar widows.

I don't think it's just sexual monogamy though , it's the sheer amount of men expecting sex on tap too if in a relationship ,regardless of what's going on in life .

This is so true.
And I don’t understand it.
So many men seem to think that they are entitled to sex.
Relationship or just random women.
And if a woman doesn’t want it they act all suprised - how can this be, I want it, why am I not getting it?

@Fifteentoes strangely I was just going to say about many women(not all) not being cut out for relationships as well if very regular sex for 30 years plus is an expected part of the deal. I put myself in that situation if I'm honest. I've been married twice and lived with someone for 4 years between the 2 marriages and if I'm honest I could absolutely take or leave sex after the first 3 years with every one, apart from maybe very occasionally. I like companionship, I like homemaking, I like shared trips etc- Im just not fussed about sex

Exactly. People want different things, so if you define some things as being essential to a relationship and other things as being optional, some people are not going to be cut out for a relationship of that kind.

I also thought each time would be different and maybe it was the partner- but I've realised as I've got older (now 60) the issue is with me.

Most men can't really handle sexual monogamy.

Says who ?
This is your opinion, not a fact.
Not the reality of people I know.

I do agree with your post at 13:15 though

You don't describe my experience of men. That isn't to say the sort you've described don't exist, or that they aren't disappointingly common, but I don't think it's anywhere near 'most' men at all.... not if mine and my sisters and friends experiences are to go by. A bit of a mixed bag overall but most have been decent folk.

Saying that 'most' are like something is as offensive as saying 'why are most women shallow and vain (insert insult)? You can't say one half of the population is so alike. Apart from being untrue, it gives the bad ones a 'get out' clause (I can't help it / all men are like this / it's just what we're like).

Totally depends on your circle, the men I know generally seem to be decent human beings who are kind to their wives, financially responsible and enjoy being Dads. . But I would never look at men on OLD ... married to a salesman 35 years plus.

It's possibly the only interesting thing about the relationship for them.

Well that’s sad.
They should stay single / have FWB / just hook-up casually….

@Sonervousimgonnathrowup

It's actually hard for a lot of men to access sex, the most desirable ones, the top 10% won't struggle, but the rest don't really stand a chance to easily obtain sex, so it's easier for them to get into a substandard relationship as that's better than nothing. Women tend to control access to sex.

It is ironic that women can easily get sex / fwbs etc but often want the relationship. For blokes it's the other way round.

😂
That 10 per cent figure is not empirically true?
Bogus science backed up by bogus stats.
😂
Neither is the idea that women either don't want or like sex. Nonsense.

This is such a ridiculous, Victorian, untrue generalisation. The idea all women just want flowers and cuddles and all men think with the end of their knob is offensive rubbish

I don’t like the women are gatekeepers to sex thing at all, but anyway, I just don’t understand how bad the men who don’t get laid have to be.

Let’s say five of my friends (women) who are into casual / hook-up’s have all been with five men this year (for few at least, I know that’s underestimate) that would already be 25 men getting laid.
And women’s standars for men are notoriously abysmal, so how bad do you have to be as a man to not get laid?

It's the app stats, they're not even getting matches. And if they're it's people they don't want to match with.
Apps are spread betting, as we know, gambling means more losers than winners.

But over 40% of the men on apps are already taken / married…

And if they’re going to be picky about it, that’s on them.

For those 25 men that the women chose to hookup with there will be another 225 that don't get any offers/dates. Those 25 men are likely be having hookups 5x more often than the women in the same pool of daters. The likes of tinder and similar online dating have made this even more clear, and actually enable the 10% of men to find women even more easily, whilst making it harder for the other 90% to get a look in because tinder selection process is almost entirely based on looks.

Ask your friends how many men the swipe left of compared to how many they swipe right on. It's more than likely 10:1 or higher ratio. And standards for dating vs hookups are a very different thing - you generally pick someone for a hookup purely on physical attributes, personality, loyalty, honesty aren't important. The 10% blokes know that's what they are, and so they often don't have the loyalty and honesty traits when it comes to dating, because they simply don't need them. It's not that the other 90% are bad, they just aren't in the 10%.

Why do you think so many men are prepared to pay for sex? It's because they're not in the 10% that have it on tap for free. Not suggesting that 90% of men pay for sex, just that all those who do are in the 90%.

And yes, women are the gatekeepers when it comes to sex - it's always the woman who decides if its going to happen on a meetup, and she'll have decided if it's on the table beforehand. A man will almost never turn it down - if he's prepared to meet you then he's almost certainly willing to sleep with you.

I don’t like the women are gatekeepers to sex thing at all, but anyway, I just don’t understand how bad the men who don’t get laid have to be.

Let’s say five of my friends (women) who are into casual / hook-up’s have all been with five men this year (for few at least, I know that’s underestimate) that would already be 25 men getting laid.

No, that doesn't follow, because all five of your friends could have been with the SAME five men.

Which is pretty much what was being said upthread. A small number of men who happen to be exceptionally attractive, rich, psychologically manipulative or whatever find it easy to get casual sex. Most don't. A considerable number find it impossible.

@altmember I think you are exactly right and particularly if it's 'middle class slightly older women' - put it like this, if my 58 year old, quite stylish and intelligent husband, sexy job was out there I guarantee he would get a lot of takers- even though he can be quite an arse- whereas mild mannered me at 60, not bad for my age and youthful , kind and friendly but a couple of stone overweight would struggle to attract anyone I would be remotely interested in -as they are looking 'to quote Alan partridge' for 42 year old scorchers!!

The problem with your theory is the fact men across all strata can marry.
Now apps are gambling, spread betting by hyper swiping. A long game like poker.
At the end of the yr, everyone will have had at least won one game or even a winning streak.
At least a few matches and dates.

But the point wasn't about marrying. It was about casual sex.