DH's 'friendship' with work colleague - am i naive????

[naivemum]

I almost just need to write this down to get it clear in my head... I don't know if i have created this situation in my head, or if I should really be worried.
I had a a bit of a bad feeling over the last couple of months, when a particular woman at dh's work kept getting mentioned and he kept getting text from her (i should point out that most of the information i have is from checking his phone - yes i know....i should trust him etc etc). Just before xmas he went on his xmas do and got back in the early hours, a bit worse for wear, the next day I asked him about it and he said he'd been doing tequila slammers, i asked 'who with' he said this woman.. so he didn't hide anything, so i thought nothing to hide. The texts continued, but i saw nothign incrminating. then a week later I checked his phone and read some texts and it turned out she'd phoned him after midnight, after i'd gone to bed, the texts mentioned about 'being quiet' . I brought it up the next day and pretended that i'd heard him on the phone. He admitted he was on the phone to her and said she was at a pub quiz and had called him because she thought he might know the answer - he said. I just didn't buy it and asked what was going on and his reaction was to treat me as if I was almost mad! He also said to me that she was very much 'one of the lads' and i had nothing to worry about. My point was that I don't have any friends that i would feel comfortable calling after midnight apart from him - my husband, and that just isn't normal for a work colleagur to call like that. I sulked about it for a couple of days, but as it turned out we were invited to a new years party where she was going to be there, so I met her and she is nothing special, and for want of a better word and not wanting to sound snobby (i'm not!) a bit common! I did speak to her and she was nice enough,and she has a boyfriend who was there. but it is still niggling at me, I have found out since that DH got a picture printed for her as a gift, and last night he went out to see a client and I looked at his phone, he'd called her within 20 minutes of leaving the house, and they are texting almost every night.
DH is a generous person, he is not a dick, he has always had female friends, but to me, this is just too much, he works closley with her, but..i don't know it just doesn't feel right. I am sorry to have gone on, I almost needed to see it all in black and white, almost think that from checking his phone i have let me imagination run away, but then pat of me is asking am I just being naive? I don't know, If anyone can make sense of all this rambling I would be grateful.
I should point out i haven't seen anything that i could accuse him of,just lots of XXX at the end of them, which I know everyone does don't they??

Thanks PeterDuck for bravely asking the one question I have been dying to but was too scared!

Well if you are doing something that causes pain and discomfort to your wife just because you want to then you don't love her that much dude. I am of the belief that men are really not that capable of loving even the mother of their children more than they love their own impulses and their self. That's just my humble opinion.

You can be free and be yourself without hurting your spouse. You don't need to do something that you know hurts them just to assert your own sense of self. Get a hobby or something, one that doesn't involve making your wife feel like shit. That shouldn't be so hard.

No friendship is more important that DH's feelings. I have guy friends but if that caused my husband any kind of bad feelings or insecurity I would drop their asses like a hot potato. DH is my best friend. His feelings matter first.

If I was really wanting to hold onto a friendship at the expense of my husbands feelings I think that would then mean that there was some kind of attraction there after all and then realise that I was probably in denial.

Do you know how many guys say to their wives "oh she is just a friend" "she is so ugly" "nothing would ever happen if we were the last 2 people on earth" etc etc. And they even believe what they are telling their wives.

Then months later they just happen to split up with the wife and end up immediately shagging little miss so "ugly" nothing would happen if we were the last two people on earth.

Just my 2 cents.

"I am of the belief that men are really not that capable of loving even the mother of their children more than they love their own impulses and their self."

What a deeply unpleasant, judgmental and frankly scary thing to say, AnneMayesR

and yet more scaremongering about men and affairs. This is of no help whatsoever to the OP who, lest we forget, has also said some very complimentary things about her DH who, in many ways beyond this particulare issue seems to be a pretty decent chap - in the words of OP herself.

I absolutely guarantee you that for every friendship where "months later they just happen to split up with the wife and end up immediately shagging little miss so "ugly" nothing would happen if we were the last two people on earth", there are 10 000 perfectly normal male/femal friendships/interactions/work relationships which are a million miles from going there. Why scare the OP so much about something which is statistically in the very small minority????

God that post made me angry!!!

Hear hear PAL!

You guys know that I wasn't scaring the OP. I was responding to you guys personally.

Yeah I have a pretty bad view of most men as a general group. My dad is a judge and deals with a lot of family court stuff. He told me how it is and why it is that way. He has seen a lot and HIS worldview is that the world is all fucked up because the majority of men out there are mouth breathing idiots. (his statement not mine)

I have known women to lie and do bad selfish stuff but not anywhere near the same level as men.

Men are better at lots of things compared to women. That is a fact. Our brains work differently. Women are better at some things that men are not good at. This is a general statement and does not apply to all individual men and women. Men are usually more analytical and make better engineers. I have however known of women who were great engineers.

When it comes to emotions, empathy, instincts, seeing things from another person's perspective, objectively viewing a situation and reaching a decision on course of action that is not based on one's own impulses, ...women generally leave men in the dust because they tend to function at a higher level. It's the old emotional intelligence quotient vs intelligence quotient debate.

I do feel bad for the OP, as her husband is more worried about his friend's feelings over hers.

I never said that it is impossible for this friend to just be a friend though. It seems that this is probably the case and he just has a good "buddy". Like I said in my post: I have platonic male friends. I just wouldn't put their feelings over my husbands.

Oh and since I said that some women make good engineers I should also concede that some men have a great deal of emotional intelligence.

Naivemum, how are you doing? I've just read all this in one sitting and can imagine how confused you feel.

I can see things from both sides, how he could be miffed with you for not trusting him when he's done nothing wrong and why you're so pissed with him. You are right, she shouldn't be contacting him late at night which makes me think she knows exactly what he is doing.

Different senario but similar devious female story! I had a female friend who flat shared with my then BF now DH, she tried to put the idea into my head that he was seeing another woman, luckily I knew who the other woman was and that it was all innocent. I suggested this to DH who thought I was being silly, however as time went on he realised that I was right and she was trying to make trouble (for whatever reason).

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it may all be totally innocent (and I'd call him naive not you) on his part, but I would not trust her intentions and for that reason you need to put up a fight for him. It will also help your self confidence. I;ve just gone back to work part time after being at home for only a year and I'm a different person now I get to leave the house for a few hours a week and be me.

Being a SAHM is an incredibly difficult job and very undervalued by everyone including the SAHM! You get very little thanks, long hours, no chance to dress up (unless you count princess or pirate costumes!) and the pay is terrible!

I have to say that I agree a lot with what PAL has said, try to talk more about the relationship rather than the ow. Let him know how you've felt over the last few weeks and that you need you time and some time together as a couple.

And just so you know you can recover from this, I had a friend in a similar situation - away from home on a training course, got a lot of attention from (a very dowdy looking) girl, however she had no strings, all fun, no usual boring home stuff going on and he stupidly fell for it. Anyway to cut a long story short, he reaslised that he'd been a dick, won her back and they're now very happily married and I doubt he would ever do it again.

Good luck, you sound like you're having a really shitty time at the moment but it will pass.

I have a lot of male friends and my DH has a lot of female friends. Jealousy has never been an issue between us.

But I cannot fathom a situation where either one of us would continue a friendship that left the other one feeling uncomfortable.

I'm really quite at the idea of making a new friend and ignoring your partner's worries about it for years. I just would never, never do that and I would be incredibly hurt if my DH did it to me.

All this talk of reassurances just doesn't ring true because friendship is not something that should require that.

If your partner is generally open to your friendships and not a jealous, possessive or controlling person, I really think you owe them more than "reassurances". I think you owe them not keeping a friend around that makes them uncomfortable.

AFD, I don't really care whether you ever post here again, but I feel really, really sorry for your wife. It's a situation like yours that I think most of the posters here are trying to help naivemum avoid.

AMR may have made the odd sweeping statement there... but despite that I really do have to concur with a lot of her first post. Yes, time and time again, men deny anything is going on, call the OW ugly or boring, say there is no way etc etc. Then it ends up as an affair. It happens. A lot. hat's why this situation is worrying and that is why many people have advised the OP to get her Dh communicating, get it out in the open and sort and she is doing her best to do that.

Of course there are millions of healthy, non-suspicious male-female friendships - of course there are, that's obvious. But if one starts to tip over into an affair - as can happen - does this "you've just got to trust them" rule hold forever? No, it doesn't. Sometimes, in some situations, trust is broken. FFS, look at the divorce rate.

Hear, hear Skidoodle and Snowleaopard; well said.

snowleopard AMR may have made the "odd sweeping statement"?????!!!

No, AMR actually came on this board and touted the kind of sexism and stereotypes which, had they come from a male poster about women, would [rightly] have been absolutely flamed. How anyone can defend her, I do not know.

No, actually, don't get me started on that again, I made my feelings clear earlier on.

skidoodle "AFD, I don't really care whether you ever post here again, but I feel really, really sorry for your wife. It's a situation like yours that I think most of the posters here are trying to help naivemum avoid."

who do you think you are, the board police? What do you mean you don't care if he ever posts here again? The guy was respectful, balanced and tried very hard to engage in meaningful discussion, always courteously, never aggressively. He is exactly the type of posters forums like this thrive on. You are way more offensive in your statement than he was in all the threads he wrote. I don't need to defend the guy but, if what he says is true, he is clearly a loving and kind husband who had an issue with his wife which he worked through and which they found solutions too. Thankfully there are men who do actually try to communicate with their wives as he did. They sound like they have a very strong marriage, way stronger than your catty comments could ever touch.

quint in the midst of all the debate, your post was one of the first to really look at it from both sides. I hope the OP pays more attention to your words than to all these doom mongers who remain convinced that all relationships live under permanent threat from other women/men. The biggest threat to relationships is life itself. The threat comes from the fact that we are all such diverse individuals with qualities and flaws, that dynamics change, that stresses happen. Hell, relationships are just hard work, period. From small acquantances all the way to life partners and soul mates. Don't go blaming the divorce rate on wanton men, that is such an insulting take and not reflecting reality.

When I see some of the posts in this thread I really despair.

Hmm, well, she did make some sweeping statements, and she did also say some stuff that was relevant and very true, and I was supporting that.

I did not blame the divorce rate on men, but on the fact that people do break trust. Knowing when to see that coming and deal with it is also - or can be - a part of relationships and the work they involve.

PAL-What do you base your assumption that AFD is "clearly a loving and kind husband" on? Because his posts give the impression that he let his wife feel, tense, upset and unhappy for a "long, long time" rather than give up his friendship with another woman. I find your and his perspective a little wierd.

My statements were based on the experiences of people who see thousands of cases like these over the course of their lifetimes and hard scientific evidence. A male judge and a male family therapist have influenced my thinking a great deal and it was one of them who made the "men are mouth breathing idiots" statement. These guys see the devastation first hand everyday when they go to work.

Looks like the guys can't take a bit of criticism.

There is no need to hurt your spouse in order to maintain a silly friendship. There is no need whatsoever.

Never underestimate a woman's instincts. Woman often know when her man is attracted to another woman long before he even realises it. It's true.

As far as my statements regarding men and woman's brains and EQ in my earlier posts here are some links.

www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=00018E9D-879D-1D06-8E49809EC588EEDF&page=1

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2146003.stm

www.time.com/time/classroom/psych/unit5_article1.html

peasoup you have been having a running feud with AllFallDown and I think you are being a touch provocative in your post. Earlier on, he said "peasoup ... the point I was trying to make originally was that I was aware of my wife's feelings and made sure to address them and reassure her. Our marriage is very strong. When I say she'd probably prefer it if I weren't still friends ... I explicitly asked my wife some time ago if she would like me to end the friendship - not something I wanted to do - but she decided that no, she didn't want to go that far. But I'm not fool enough to think that she is completely without discomfort. But she loves me and trusts me as I love and trust her."

Taking him at face value, he has a strong marriage with lots of love and trust. Why would you not believe him? While I am sure this issue was important in his couple, I would also bet that it was not a predominant one. That is why you are so off beam to make such negative judgements about him and his marriage.

I wasn't sexist at all. I said that men and women both have strengths and weaknesses. Women are OFTEN crap with spatial awareness types of stuff and men are not as emotionally aware. It is true.

@ a male judge being the fount of all knowledge

It's like saying a doctor is correct when he says every lump is cancer just because he sees a lot of cancerous lumps.

AnneMayesR: the judge in question was your father who worked in the family courts. If he had worked in a betting shop would you now believe that all men are gamblers? Or if he was a magistrate would you now believe that all men are murderers? (on second thoughts, don't answer that!).

What percentage of men do you feel actually end up in the family courts? And you take that to be representative?

You say "When it comes to emotions, empathy, instincts, seeing things from another person's perspective, objectively viewing a situation and reaching a decision on course of action that is not based on one's own impulses, ...women generally leave men in the dust because they tend to function at a higher level"

I just feel real pity for you that you have not met enough men in the circles within which you move who would proove to you what a load of sweeping codswallop that is. Reading you, you would think that there were no male doctors, counsellors, samaritans, primary school teachers. No men in any profession which requires empathy and emotion.

I don't know which circles you move in but if you came and met my male friends you might be very shocked to find some very in touch, emotionally sound, highly empathetic, intelligent, sensitive men. You'd also find a few hard-nose old schoolers too. You'll also find some lovely girls and a few with the emtional I.Q. of a park bench. This is why your generalisations are rude, insulting and frankly pig ignorant.

Yes, well done for spotting that there are differences between men and women. Shame on you for using them as a cause for division rather than a stimulus and foundations for deep and meaningful relationships, the like of which someone with your prejudices and out-of-date attitudes may just struggle, I fear, to nurture.