DH contacted the OW shortly after ‘ending it’…

[Pickle991]

I have a previous thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4564371-when-do-you-finally-throw-in-the-towel-after-affair-discovery

To recap I discovered just over half a year ago DH had had multiple affairs. We have 3 young DC. Latest was emotional and physical and he only ended it when I found out at my insistence.

We have been trying to reconcile. Tbh I think I am still in shock. However yesterday I found out he had been in contact with the most recent OW again after he had ended it, shortly after I initially found out.

He said it was to ‘end it properly on his own terms’ and they haven’t restarted anything. I am fairly sure that’s true as I’m not sure he would have had the opportunity. She lives very far away now and DH has been WFH. I have sight over everything inc. bank accounts so I’d notice if anything was amiss. But it just makes me feel there was a lot more between them than he let on although he denies it. He has also looked her up on social media since too, which he doesn’t know I know, but no contact.

I feel like this is just another betrayal AGAIN and it’s small in comparison to everything else, ie, nothing has carried on. But it’s made me feel like the one who has essentially ripped them apart and that DH is only staying for DC and he still misses her. I don’t know if I’m overreacting and should focus on the fact he has been trying to make things work and residual feelings are normal, or if I am always going to be compared unfavourably to her and they would still be together now if I hadn’t found out. It was a fairly long term thing.

We had made some progress reconciling, in that we’re at least not at loggerheads so much, still don’t know if it will work in the long run but it’s been hard and now I don’t know if it’s worth throwing all that away because of this now.

He ended it ‘at your insistence’ ??
Not because he wanted to?

‘when someone is apologising, begging to stay’

Uhuh. If you dropped the doormat act for literally five minutes you’d watch him morph from ‘sorry’ to raging, then you’d see what you’re really dealing with.

Please get therapy to get clear in your mind, find some strength, raise your standards and stop being desperate.

@Indigokitten he didn’t do it himself no, I essentially said if he even wanted to talk about attempting reconciliation he had to do it there and then, but he didn’t end it after I found out of his own choice

You adjust your parameters for what you will put up with because it fits better with what you want

I think this is the crux of it, you’ll take it to stay with him and for what he provides, you’re scared to be alone. Or terrified using your words.

he is in love with someone else. If he doesn’t end up with her it will be someone else. He is staying for the kids. It’s a hard thing to take. When the trying stops, he will go again, op.

I don’t know how long you can cling on, or how long he will stay but honestly I’m not sure this is recoverable from. This is not a man who wishes to be in a relationship with you. I’m sorry. But it’s not.

@Pickle991 did you ever get to the bottom of why he feels the need to have ongoing affairs?

You haven't made any progress reconciling. What you have experienced is a "false reconciliation." He's still lying to you and breaching your trust by doing what he shouldn't.

I wasted 4 years trying to save my marriage and in that time my ex had another 3 affairs and many more one night stands. Please have some dignity, end it and put all your energy into someone who is worth it.

@cafcass123 oh the usual. Lack of sex at home, liking the validation, stress at work, feeling under appreciated and undervalued. Said we were more like coparents rather than husband and wife most of the time. Said none of it was an excuse but if he had to give some sort of reason he guessed that was it.
most affairs were mainly sexual but the latest seemed to give him something he was missing on the emotional side. He never expressed to me he was unhappy with our relationship. Intimacy not great after kids but again it was never really brought up as an issue but I guess because he was getting his needs met elsewhere…

Everything you are saying shows how much he literally does not care one bit about you. I understand it’s a big decision for you to make and will be a massive life change if you leave him but you really need to check your own self worth here. I think deep down with the way you are wording things you want to leave and you want everyone here to justify it for you but you already know what you should do. Yes fine he is asking for forgiveness

@BetterFuture1985 yes that’s the thing it was like all the effort gone into reconciling was based on yet another lie even if not a huge one, in comparison. Said he panicked and wanted to end things on his terms and try and do the right thing.

I don’t think there has been anything else since.

but yes if there wasn’t 100% honesty after D-day that obviously doesn’t bode well. Or if maybe it’s the effort made since that should hold more weight after things have calmed down a bit and emotions weren’t as heightened.

They always use the same self pitying excuses. My wife was exactly the same. It's really just a lack of maturity on their part. In my wife's case she had demanded that she be a stay at home parent and then discovered she couldn't handle the responsibility. Obviously the flip side was I had to work extreme amounts of hours to bring enough money in to sustain this lifestyle. But at the end it was all my fault apparently because I didn't help her enough on top of my 60 hour work week plus 10 hours of commuting.

The real issue was that until children came along, she was basically a dependent who was looked after. I earned most of the money even then and she had a cushy job with little responsibility, no overtime and close to home. When the children arrived she suddenly had to work as hard as I had been and she really didn't acclimatise to being a responsible adult.

.. so what? Would he forgive you just as easy if the shoe was on the other foot? Can you imagine hurting him the way he has hurt you and still call it love ? If you have a daughter, would you allow her to put up with this even if she was willingly putting herself through it? If your friend was in this situation wouldn’t she think she CRAZY to stay?? You know what you need to do. Put on your big girl pants and tell Him to leave. Enough is absolutely enough. Trust me you will wonder why the hell you waited so long when you realise what a massive piece of shit he is and find someone who actually respects you and doesn’t treat you like a tatty old door mat. If your not going to leave then as the saying goes you have made you bed now sleep in it. I’m sure he will and many other beds still.

If it's not 100% honesty then it will fail. More than likely he's still seeing her. He probably has a second phone.

Run some tests. The old mileage trick is my favourite because it's perfectly legal and low on intrusion. Check their mileage before they go out (without them knowing) and when they get home. Know where they are going too. If the mileage is not consistent with where they claim to have been on a regular basis, you will know you are dealing with a liar. And with your husband's form, you will also have a very good idea of what they are lying about.

What other reason can he give you op that would allow him to stay?

“look I’m just not feeling it any more, so I was looking for someone else, I’ve fallen out of love with you and I just really don’t fancy you now, I’m not even sure I really like you any more, it’s over for me, but I want to stay for my children and hold it together for that reason. I was and am in love with someone else, but you get to play to trumps for the time being due to the kids. And I will call her now as it’s not over with her, she needs to know you know and this is about my children and oh by the way I respect you less for taking it ”

hes given the old cliches because what else can he say that’s not going to cause too much damage but not also be a huge lie. He’s told you what I wrote, just he’s danced around it. You know it.

I’m not a “once a cheater, always a cheater” believer. Affairs can be very complicated and people have them for a myriad of reasons, some of which I do think can be worked through.

Your husband has had multiple affairs that you know of. There is something fundamentally not right in your relationship and/or he just can’t help himself. I do think it’s the latter.

I have a male friend who is a serial cheater. If he was married to the most perfect woman ever created he would still cheat on her. It’s who he is and I know he will never stop. His whole self esteem is based on women fancying him and him bedding them. He has absolutely no business being in any relationship as he is not capable of having one.

I would be shocked if your husband didn’t cheat again. Like my friend I think he just can’t help himself but you know him OP. You need to focus on you, stop focusing on him and what he is and is not doing. Look inward, start working on yourself, get some counselling and build your self esteem back up, which must be on the floor at this point. Then you can make a decision on your marriage and move forward with whatever option you choose. I wish you well OP x

No you're not overreacting. By contacting this woman he went back on what you agreed and has, yet again, chosen his feelings, and those of another woman, over yours.

You deserve more than being the bottom of a pile and someone he is with just for the children.

Oh OP.

I hope this isn't too hurtful, but he doesn't love you.

If he loved you, and truly cared for you, he wouldn't cheat.

You get one life. Dont waste yours on a hopeless marriage.

@Cakecakecheese yeah I don’t know exactly what was said, I suspect it was to placate her so she didn’t cause trouble for him 🙄
but regardless of the reason if it was totally innocent surely he could have explained or told me at the time.

You don’t really believe that do you? He’s told you basically he loved her. I’m sure the feeling was mutual. When that’s the case of course he talks to her. You don’t just ghost someone you’re in love with because you’re being made to chose between her and your kids.

Do not go into couples' therapy. Go on your own. You need to understand why you have put up with this and why you haven't split.

I’m sorry but this was always going to be the way of it.

And it was sadly very obvious you were going to set yourself up for more heartache even when you were told by people that serial cheats were a whole different ball game to any other and there was no understanding them. That they are just downright bad.

I still don’t know what it is you want out of this situation but I can promise you this - if it’s more cheating and heartache whilst watching your life fly past in the blink of an eye you’ll stay and drive yourself mad if he doesn’t drive you mad first.

@Summersolargirl he obviously denied being in love with her that was just the impression I got. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. He hasn’t made an effort to be with her.
my feelings change all the time and sometimes I am convinced he does want to make it work, but I don’t know if I do. All I know is right now I need some time to make the decision but I feel like things keep changing when discovering new information, and then I don’t know what to make of it, my thoughts on it all are so messed up.

appreciate the viewpoints on here as they help to clarify a bit. So easy to get stuck on a mental loop with it all.

@Pickle991
Cheats are actually very predictable in their behaviour. Easy to identify; easy to predict how they will behave when they are caught and easy - once categorised - to know if they will cheat again. The blind spot is that you think you know your spouse based on their past behaviour and think they are the exception to the rule. That is never the case.

Before they are caught, they will start spending inordinate amounts of time on their phone which suddenly has a password you don't know, they'll become distant or (in my ex-wife's case) downright nasty in their behaviour around you (my wife once screamed that she hated me and the children in front of us all for no reason after we'd had a day out and I'd cooked Sunday lunch, completely out of the blue. Turns out that was about a month after the first affair started) and they'll start making bad excuses to be out of the house more often. During the early pandemic my wife used to claim she was in queues for the supermarket and went out for 6 hours at a time!

Once caught, they'll blame you for it. They will never, ever tell you the truth on day 1 of being caught. Whether they will ever tell you the truth depends on what kind of cheat they are but on day 1 it will be an endless stream of bullshit designed to convince you the affair was at least partly your fault. In my case my ex claimed she went to hotels to meet random men because I didn't do the housework enough (turns out even though I worked 60 hour weeks to fund the SAHP lifestyle she wanted she took exception to doing some of the work).

Now, the important bit. What kind of cheat are they? At the lower end of the scale is a one off emotional affair. Can they be reformed? Maybe. Then there is the 'accidental' affair where two people have a physical relationship once or things get out of hand a few times. Again, it might be possible to save the relationship if the cheat is genuinely remorseful, but unless they are on their knees with guilt within 3 months of being caught don't get your hopes up. Only trust this cheat again if you get access to their phone, they happily pick up WhatsApp video calls whenever you want them to and they always tell you there whereabouts. If they refuse or accuse you of stalking, then they are refusing to restore trust and deserve the flick.

Then there are the cheats you need to just get rid of immediately. That includes anyone who breaches trust again, including your husband; serial cheats like my ex; cheats who have been in one affair for more than 6 months (they will always have feelings for this person, you'll never recover) and those who claim in their early, nasty response to being caught that the relationship is over or that they "love you but aren't in love with you." Also, if you do discover its been a long term affair, then you've probably been the "boring one" in a tripod. You're the stability that keeps their affair going, the one to deal with the house and the kids and keep things ticking over, maybe earn the money too. The other person is the "fun" one who gets all the good times. They'll want to cling on to you to keep their life as it is whilst getting their rocks off going behind your back. These people don't just need the flick, you need to make sure everyone in their life knows what a scumbag they are. My children will all know why we split up one day and my ex-wife will have to answer to them for her behaviour. I won't inflict it on them as children, but I will tell them all when the youngest turns 18.

my feelings change all the time and sometimes I am convinced he does want to make it work,

He only wants to make it work because it benefits him, for whatever reason. It's certainly not because he loves and respects you. You are wasting so much time here, this man will hurt you over and over.

Yeah, I went through that. It's denial.