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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Boss annoyed/upset I don't want to spend my days off with him

330 replies

gherkinsaplenty · 03/07/2022 13:16

NC as I don't want this linking to my other posts.
I started working for an elderly widower a few months ago. It's been great because it fits around the kids and is within walking distance.
From the start he's asked about days out with me and the kids. I've never agreed to anything and have gently said no thank you. He wants to pay for everything and there's just so much that makes me feel uncomfortable.
He tells me far too much information about his marriage to his late wife including about their sex life.
He tells me inappropriate jokes that ex work mates have told him along with lots of inappropriate stories about them and their infidelities.
He drinks heavily and drives the next morning as well as back from the pub.
He makes me feel like I need to justify doing things that's just me and the kids.
He's always offering me lifts and I won't accept because he's bloody dangerous when I have been in the car with him. He's hit 3 vehicles lately and not even noticed, pulls out without indicating, pulls out in front of moving traffic. I'm stressed thinking he's going to need me to go somewhere with him.
I'm working at his home essentially doing a house clearance before he moves into a retirement apartment next year. I really enjoy the work but I'm getting/got the serious ick about him and feel uncomfortable.
Despite saying I could work around the kids and not during the holidays he expects me to take them with me to his and wants me to work every day of the summer holidays. I've told him no and he's almost sulking. The dc have got an inset day tomorrow and we are off out for the day. He's upset because he thought he could take us out somewhere and was looking forward to it even though I never said yes to his invitation. He keeps grumbling about it and making out I've let him down. He has his own grown up dc and a few grandchildren and I know he's lonely but I don't want to be spending my days off with my boss. I'm a carer for a family member too and between my dc and caring I don't have much time to do anything. He phones me every day at least twice including on my days off and there are numerous texts too. I've now switched off my voicemail service and adjusted my phone to only allow certain people to contact me outside of work hours. I only do 12 hours a week or so but with the frequent phone calls and voicemails and texts it's more like 18 hours. I'm a single parent and the money has been great but I feel like jacking it in now. I feel so uncomfortable with it all. Despite being totally inappropriate he is very kind and generous and funny and I have enjoyed the job but this latest sulk over a day out and me saying no to going away with him in the summer has tipped me over into dreading work now. He's said to stop messaging him and let the dust settle. I'm here thinking there's no dust to settle, I just told him thank you but no. I'm autistic and get things wrong so often with navigating situations. I hate confrontation too and I'm annoyed he's doing this.
How do I keep things professional?

OP posts:
gherkinsaplenty · 06/07/2022 14:40

Hang on. I've just identified that feeling properly and it's the feeling that I have failed. I'm not someone who gives up. That's how I ended up getting married and I should have learnt my lesson that overriding my gut for appearances sake is a bad idea. I'm such an idiot. Despite all that though I'm feeling a sense of freedom and feel more relaxed. I've enjoyed being able to be more present for my family. It was definitely the right decision. Not that I ever doubted myself on that.

OP posts:
wellhelloitsme · 06/07/2022 15:07

You haven't given up. You haven't been a quitter.

You've simply removed a toxic person from your life who was making you uncomfortable, unhappy AND attempting to form a relationship with your children.

Giving up would have been continuing to allow that.

Being a quitter would have been quitting your responsibly to protect your mental health and your children by continuing to allow that.

You ending this and having firm boundaries in place is the only right thing for you and your family.

You aren't an idiot. You're a woman ridding herself from toxicity and focusing on the future.

Flowers
madasawethen · 06/07/2022 15:35

You haven't failed.

You put yourself first by removing the toxic weirdo from your life.

Keep the stuff. Neither one of you know what is there.
Just keep it and sell it.
Nobody is going to come after you just like telling the creep you didn't want to work for him anymore. The sky did not fall.
That fear and timidity is drilled in women's heads from a young age.

This has been an experience in standing up for yourself.

gherkinsaplenty · 29/07/2022 14:40

Would you believe this is still taking up brain space? I still feel bad for just saying nope, no more and that was it. He's not attempted to contact me that I'm aware of. My voicemail is switched off and I'd blocked him. I'm missing the money but I'm not missing the discomfort he caused me. Life is quite peaceful now without his many calls and I no longer have to make excuses as to why I can't do things. I might make a list of all the things he said or did and post it here so I can be reminded clearly of why I made the decision I did. I have a sadly long history of abusive relationships so although I'm annoyed at myself for putting up with the discomfort for so long, I needed the money, and at least I did see the light in the end. I haven't done anything with all the things to sell but I will get round to it. I've been ill, ds has been I'll and I've been focused on the dc and my mum.
For all I tried to keep things professional he developed an unhealthy attachment and definitely took advantage of me being female and a single parent. I think of him now as a grubby old man.

OP posts:
wellhelloitsme · 29/07/2022 14:49

Glad to hear he hasn't attempted contact but sorry to hear it's still taking up headspace.

Have you ever had any counselling to work through the trauma of your abusive relationships?

I wonder if it's worth thinking about this, whether privately or asking your GP to refer you, so that you can try to stop feeling you owe people (especially men) kindness and loyalty even in situations that make you uncomfortable, sad or frightened.

Cavagirl · 29/07/2022 18:33

I still feel bad for just saying nope, no more and that was it.

Can you identify more about what this feeling is?

Are you seeking his acceptance, or permission to stop? Do you need someone else to tell you that you were allowed to say no? Why isn't it enough for you, that you simply didn't want to do it?

Is it the thought that he's thinking badly of you? Or someone else is thinking badly of you?

He's not attempted to contact you, I'm sure he's not thinking about you any longer apart perhaps from "that stupid woman who gave up on the job" and has probably found himself a new victim, unfortunately.

gherkinsaplenty · 29/07/2022 23:46

I think I'm annoyed that I didn't quit sooner. I'm annoyed it still takes me longer than it should to realise that some people aren't suitable to be part of my life even on a business basis. I have a strong sense of right and wrong and struggled so much with many of the things he said and did. I'll list them to help get it out of my system. It will make me feel worse for not telling him to stop saying things but I just didn't reply to most things or so of went "ha" as if to say very funny but I don't know what to say so I'll change the subject or get back to work. So many things I thought Hmm but he was grieving and liked to chat so I just humoured him really. The thing I find most difficult is reconciling the nice guy persona with the controlling person he really was.

Telling me stories about his promiscuous days before he was married. How he treated women badly and regrets it now. How he didn't know much about sex at all to start with but soon learnt. How his wife was a prude. How he'd massage her vagina to ease her sciatica and how they'd have sex at dawn then go back to sleep.

He'd point out all the articles in the paper that contained anything g about sex and insist I read them right there and then.

He'd ask me questions about my early boyfriends.

He'd say he'd never forced himself on a woman but had persuaded plenty. As someone who has been coerced into sex in a couple of relationships this was one comment that would make me leave the room.

How it's a shame I wasn't x number of years older and he x number of years younger so that we'd be about the same age. Dream on.

How he's more of a bum man and more than a mouthful of breast is a waste.

Where his eldest was conceived several months before he and his wife married.

How it was x number of years to the day since he last had sex.

Saying he preferred my hair down. I'll keep wearing it in my usual messy bun then.

Told me to meet his daughter looking as plain as possible otherwise she might get the wrong idea. His daughter is lovely.

Forbade me from ever getting a taxi because he doesn't like them. No one forbids me from doing anything.

Wanted to know the ins and outs of my child maintenance payments.

Coerced me into agreeing to a short break with the children but said not to tell his daughter. I backed out.

Wanted to know if ds would be happy to share a room with him on holidays. No.

Said if me saw my Dd with her natural hair colour he'd fall in love with her. Then tried saying he didn't mean it like that.

Suggested when he went on holiday for 3 weeks that me and the dc move in so it would be easier for me not having to go home after work. It's less than 5 minutes walk and no I don't want to sleep in your bed.

Referred to shops run by Asian people as P shops.

Used unacceptable words when referring to the Chinese takeaway. I can't remember exactly what but but the word that rhymes with dinky along with another word so like a dinky dog or something. I'd just ignore these but wish I'd called him out.

Said of the Rochdale child sexual abuse/grooming victims that maybe there was something in the perception they were worldly. I did pull him up on that one and walked away.

Told me a list of things he wanted to do/places to go with me and the dc in the summer. He would pay of course. No thanks.

Accused me of using my mum as an excuse for not wanting to go on days out/holidays.

Expected me and the dc to go on Christmas Eve to decorate for Christmas.

Drank heavily.

Drove after many pints, drank more when he got home then drove the next morning.

Drive through red lights.

Bumped into other vehicles but didn't notice.

Drove too close and too fast. Think he thought he was still 18 and trying to impress his mates or girlfriend.

Destroyed a birds' nest that was in current use because they'd shit on his car.

Talked to me about his viagra but that he didn't actually need it.

Talked about smegma and circumcision.

Said how I'd saved his life by helping him with the house.

Defended his violent alcoholic son and said his girlfriend had lied about the abuse.

Walked round with just a towel wrapped round his waist and stood on the landing to talk to me so I could see up the towel.

Walked round half dressed.

God this list is awful. It was snippets of things over months and I'd generally make non committal noises and go to a different room to work but he kept repeating some of the stories and I got so uncomfortable.

Despite this list of horrors he was funny, charming, generous and kind hearted and that is what I struggle with: the two totally polar sides to him. I'm well out of there.

Sorry it was so long! I feel better for getting it all out.

OP posts:
wellhelloitsme · 30/07/2022 00:00

Oh OP 😞

Wanted to know if ds would be happy to share a room with him on holidays. No.

Said if me saw my Dd with her natural hair colour he'd fall in love with her. Then tried saying he didn't mean it like that.

These two especially are chilling.

Sorry if you've covered this already but would you be able / willing to have some counselling or at least ask to be referred (I know there's a waiting list obviously) by your GP?

As this has really understandably shaken your core belief that you wouldn't put up with this kind of behaviour, which is why you've been left reeling and confused I think.

You think if someone did X, I would do Y, then when in the moment (or a number of moments) your reaction isn't what you expected, it's unnerving and unsettling.

His behaviour has been predatory and genuinely disturbing. Most of your most recent post was genuinely upsetting and made my skin crawl.

I think it's worth you looking up the shark cage analogy to see if it chimes with you, looking into counselling and also reading The Gift of Fear to reassure you that if you get that 'this isn't right' feeling in future, you should respect and sit with that feeling before dismissing it as being rude or ungrateful of you towards whoever is giving you that feeling.

I think all of that is especially important considering you have children and of course need to always safeguard them Flowers

Quia · 30/07/2022 06:40

Are you looking for another job? Might help you to move on.

gherkinsaplenty · 03/08/2022 16:20

He called round today with a 3 page letter asking me to reconsider with a bit of gaslighting and a large dose of emotional blackmail. You'd think my silence for the past month would have told him I don't want to reconsider. I'm returning the suitcase full of clothes. I really can't be bothered selling it all them dividing the proceeds. His daughter has been up for a week and from what he says all the things I have sorted are still there waiting for someone to do something with them. That someone won't be me. I'm going to ask my friend to come with me with the stuff.

OP posts:
wellhelloitsme · 03/08/2022 17:04

Jesus he's horrible.

Do you have the daughter's contact details?

I would maybe message her and say something like...

"I've made it very clear to (name) that due to his inappropriate behaviour I no longer want to have any contact whatsoever with him. Despite this he has come to my home today and delivered a three page letter asking me to reconsider. This will not be happening. I do not want any contact at all. I would appreciate you making this clear to him as I don't feel comfortable with him continuing to contact me and am sure you understand that my home is private and I've made my wishes and boundaries abundantly clear. Any further contact will be considered harassment and I will need to call the police to discuss next steps with them, so it would be ideal for everyone involved to avoid this."

billy1966 · 03/08/2022 17:57

wellhelloitsme · 03/08/2022 17:04

Jesus he's horrible.

Do you have the daughter's contact details?

I would maybe message her and say something like...

"I've made it very clear to (name) that due to his inappropriate behaviour I no longer want to have any contact whatsoever with him. Despite this he has come to my home today and delivered a three page letter asking me to reconsider. This will not be happening. I do not want any contact at all. I would appreciate you making this clear to him as I don't feel comfortable with him continuing to contact me and am sure you understand that my home is private and I've made my wishes and boundaries abundantly clear. Any further contact will be considered harassment and I will need to call the police to discuss next steps with them, so it would be ideal for everyone involved to avoid this."

This OP.

He's a creep.
This is not on you.
You owe him nothing.

gherkinsaplenty · 03/08/2022 19:22

My friend is going with me to return the items I want rid of. I'd rather not involve his daughter but will if need be.

OP posts:
wellhelloitsme · 03/08/2022 19:37

Can I ask (gently) why you don't want to involve his daughter?

He isn't listening to you saying 'no' and has now come onto your property with a letter filled with gaslighting a guilt tripping.

Make it a her problem, not a you problem. I think most people would rather be told their parent is acting this way if the alternatives are either then continuing to harass a woman, or a woman reporting them to the police.

I worry you don't want to 'make a fuss' but this situation calls for you doing just that now he's made it clear that he doesn't respect your decision.

I would be very concerned he had come to your family property after you were very clear you wanted to further contact.

LookItsMeAgain · 03/08/2022 19:48

At this stage I would drive around, with the stuff you're returning, accompanied by your own letter stating that at this point any further contact from him to you will be considered harassment and stalking and you will get a legally enforceable restraining order. You are also sending a copy of the letter to his daughter so that everyone knows the score.

Do this and mean it.

Best of luck to you.

gherkinsaplenty · 03/08/2022 21:30

I've just come back home and am reading through the letter again. It's made me quite sad. He's said he was quite happy with what I said about no socialising but that's certainly not the impression he gave me with his under the breath comments about how he was looking forward to it then saying I was using my mum's disability as an excuse. He has thanked me for everything I have done and said what a difficult year it has been and yes it has been awful for him to lose his wife after nursing her through her illness. He has booked himself lots of breaks away and is getting on with his life. I feel sorry for him but he was so inappropriate. I keep thinking I should have told him to stop and I didn't so therefore he carried on with the things he was saying. I keep thinking maybe I've been too harsh. I do this, I put up with shit and then will suddenly say no more and cut all contact with people. I'm not very assertive and go from 0-60 on things like this. He's wished me well and thanked me again and said if I ever need anything then just get in touch. I just want to cry.

OP posts:
CPL593H · 03/08/2022 21:49

OP, this is not some incredibly vulnerable person. He's well able to drive (drunk) and go on "lots of breaks". I think you should read through the long list of unpleasant behaviour from him you posted a few weeks ago before allowing his guilt trip to take hold.

wellhelloitsme · 03/08/2022 22:06

OP as the poster just now said, you need to read through the list you posted before, especially the bits about your son and daughter, which I've highlighted, and stop thinking of him as anything other than a predatory, racist, boundary pushing pervert.

Some of the list made me gasp when you originally posted it. Some was just gross, some was genuinely chilling like the bits about your kids.

Read it again - do you still think that wanting no contact with him and telling him why was "too harsh"?!

Here it is:

Telling me stories about his promiscuous days before he was married. How he treated women badly and regrets it now. How he didn't know much about sex at all to start with but soon learnt. How his wife was a prude. How he'd massage her vagina to ease her sciatica and how they'd have sex at dawn then go back to sleep.

He'd point out all the articles in the paper that contained anything g about sex and insist I read them right there and then.

He'd ask me questions about my early boyfriends.

He'd say he'd never forced himself on a woman but had persuaded plenty. As someone who has been coerced into sex in a couple of relationships this was one comment that would make me leave the room.

How it's a shame I wasn't x number of years older and he x number of years younger so that we'd be about the same age. Dream on.

How he's more of a bum man and more than a mouthful of breast is a waste.

Where his eldest was conceived several months before he and his wife married.

How it was x number of years to the day since he last had sex.

Saying he preferred my hair down. I'll keep wearing it in my usual messy bun then.

Told me to meet his daughter looking as plain as possible otherwise she might get the wrong idea. His daughter is lovely.

Forbade me from ever getting a taxi because he doesn't like them. No one forbids me from doing anything.

Wanted to know the ins and outs of my child maintenance payments.

Coerced me into agreeing to a short break with the children but said not to tell his daughter. I backed out.

Wanted to know if ds would be happy to share a room with him on holidays. No.

Said if me saw my Dd with her natural hair colour he'd fall in love with her. Then tried saying he didn't mean it like that.

Suggested when he went on holiday for 3 weeks that me and the dc move in so it would be easier for me not having to go home after work. It's less than 5 minutes walk and no I don't want to sleep in your bed.

Referred to shops run by Asian people as P shops.

Used unacceptable words when referring to the Chinese takeaway. I can't remember exactly what but but the word that rhymes with dinky along with another word so like a dinky dog or something. I'd just ignore these but wish I'd called him out.

Said of the Rochdale child sexual abuse/grooming victims that maybe there was something in the perception they were worldly. I did pull him up on that one and walked away.

Told me a list of things he wanted to do/places to go with me and the dc in the summer. He would pay of course. No thanks.

Accused me of using my mum as an excuse for not wanting to go on days out/holidays.

Expected me and the dc to go on Christmas Eve to decorate for Christmas.

Drank heavily.

Drove after many pints, drank more when he got home then drove the next morning.

Drive through red lights.

Bumped into other vehicles but didn't notice.

Drove too close and too fast. Think he thought he was still 18 and trying to impress his mates or girlfriend.

Destroyed a birds' nest that was in current use because they'd shit on his car.

Talked to me about his viagra but that he didn't actually need it.

Talked about smegma and circumcision.

Said how I'd saved his life by helping him with the house.

Defended his violent alcoholic son and said his girlfriend had lied about the abuse.

Walked round with just a towel wrapped round his waist and stood on the landing to talk to me so I could see up the towel.

Walked round half dressed.

Xpologog · 03/08/2022 22:22

Bloody hell. I hadn’t seen your thread before, just read all your posts and began to feel physically sick at your list of things he’s said and done. Absolutely disgusting.
Id say he is most likely a predator or a wannabe one. So glad you’ve told him where to stick his job. And that you reported his drinking and driving. Hopefully he’ll get picked up by the police before he kills someone.

Maisymoomoo22 · 03/08/2022 22:38

Op this man is not your problem, he has a daughter that should be taking up the slack and sorting things for him. If she doesn’t it’s not your concern!

you know him and have experienced what kind of a man he is.
Don’t feel sorry for him he’s vile and disgusting.

You were his employee now you have left the job and he shouldn’t be bothering you, end of!

Protect yourself but most of all protect your children from him.

That list you posted of the things he’s said and done should be warning enough.
This man is not normal.
you need to draw a line under everything and keep well away!!!
For your sake and for your children’s safety!!!

gherkinsaplenty · 03/08/2022 23:16

You are right. I really appreciate your posts here. I'm able to vent and work through things. I've spent most of my life being told I'm too sensitive, ridiculous, difficult and selfish so I doubt myself a lot. However I have done a lot of work on myself and react much sooner than previously. Again the thought that came into my head was "he wouldn't have written me another letter, addressed to me and the kids, if I was a man." It's like a bad break up in a way and that's weird in itself. Thank you for giving me my list again. I was going to look back and read it. I'll add using his dead wife's disabled badge to park in places he shouldn't. I do miss the work as it was fun. Apart from the past rat infestation in the cellar that returned. That was grim. The stench was awful. The pest control people came in from the council in the end after I saw a rat and he saw some upstairs and in the kitchen. Ugh. Amazing what done of us will put up with. I really miss the money though! My mum is paying me for the caring I do for her instead. Not much but as I read on here somewhere last week: if something costs you your peace of mind then it costs too much. I might have said that already on here but it's very true. I'd happily do a few hours a week there if I could do it without any contact with him whatsoever. I wouldn't feel safe and no amount of cash is worth that.

OP posts:
wellhelloitsme · 03/08/2022 23:26

It was addressed to you and the kids?!

Jesus Christ.

I really would consider messaging his daughter as suggested earlier. I think you aren't doing so out of embarrassed but you shouldn't be embarrassed!

You've been sexually harassed by a man who has made a ridiculous amount of inappropriate comments about you and your children, made inappropriate requests, drunk driven and other dangerous driving, been racist and been sexist. Repeatedly.

He's lucky you haven't gone to the police.

DFOD · 04/08/2022 00:06

He is a sex pest at best and a paedo groomer at worst.

He has form.

His family know this - that’s why they don’t keep in contact and he tells you to be different around his daughter.

He is continuing to harass you. He will not stop until you flush this out.

I would write to his daughter - the long list and ask her to manage him to stay away from your children, your house and to stop harassing you and if he makes one more attempt at contact you are calling the police.

And then I would call the police every single night you know he is at the pub.

I am sorry you have endured this. Don’t beat yourself up that you didn’t leave the job earlier because you are dealing with a highly manipulative character who would have some plausible deniability for anything you called him out on.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant - write to his daughter.

gherkinsaplenty · 04/08/2022 00:49

It seems suspicious to me that his daughter went back yesterday and today he's written me this after 4 weeks of no contact. It seems he's realised how much there is to do and she's probably annoyed I've not been there clearing it all. What he needs is professional house clearance people, not one woman like me trying to do the job of about 6 people. It wasn't just the hours I was there either it was all the phone calls, voicemails and messages outside of me being there. Calls at 1am when he's got in from the pub or is watching something on tv and wants to tell me about it. I never replied but he kept doing it and seemed bemused i never answered and he always got my voicemail.

OP posts:
DFOD · 04/08/2022 06:44

You are in the wrong mindset right now.

His gaslighting is working as you are doubting yourself and falling for his sob story.

You need to be decisive with a really firm assertive action right now to close this down once and for all. Would thoughts of him lusting after your daughter and son and grooming you to sexually assault them motivate you? You also need to warn your DCs that he specifically is a sexual predator and they should never speak to him or be alone with him as he may target them if they are out playing or come to your house when you are out.

This needs flushing out immediately.

Daughter, cease and desist letter, get advice from police.

When he called around with the letter - did you speak to him? Did he come into your house?