Friend’s husband hitting on me

[JennaBear]

Looking for advice really…
Invited out by friends’ husband (who I don’t know very well) to celebrate her birthday with two other couples. I ended up sitting between her husband and another one (not mine). Throughout the whole meal, her husband kept his arm draped around my chair (which my DH saw and thought was odd, but not exactly boundary crossing), however, what my DH didn’t see, was that he also kept touching my back, rubbing my bra strap, pushing his legs against mine, touching my hand, etc. It made me feel REALLY uncomfortable (and not just because both our spouses were there, but because I didn’t want him to touch me). I tried to make this obvious by leaning as far forward as I could away from his hand, moving my legs away from him, going to the toilet in order to be able to come back and re-position myself, etc. There was nowhere else at the table to sit. I know I didn’t imagine it though, because two of my other friends were in the pub that evening and asked me afterwards if I enjoyed “being creeped on”.

Anyway, fast forward to school run this morning, and my friend seems cool with me. I might just be imagining it, but I don’t know what she saw / thought at the time. We aren’t super close, so not sure I should raise it with her. Looking for advice really (even if just retrospective advice about how I could have handled it better, as it’s left me feeling quite upset).

In every situation that I have been in where I have challenged a man for crossing the boundaries with me in this way, I have been perceived as difficult, dramatic, a man hater, gobby, argumentative, a trouble maker. Etc. Not only by men, but by women too. And when I say challenged, I mean commenting 'don't touch me again', not smashing a plate over their head. Guess we are supposed to fucking simper and giggle.

I would have done the same. I used to work in a male-dominated environment and in my experience you are damned if you do and damned if you don't call men out on this kind of stuff. What a foul man. Not your fault OP. Take care

Done the same as in frozen or tried to deal with it in the same way i mean.

I had something similar happen to me, in my house while my ex was at work. He came over to pick his daughter up from a playdate. In some ways, it might have been easier to deal with that it was on my territory and I could deal with it the way I wanted. I don't even remember what I did. I just remember him almost running out of the house. I think no-one had ever confronted him before and I know he had done it before. It's really hard to confront when it's other people's marriages at risk.

I’ve often found myself freezing in these situations and I’m considered pretty outspoken. There’s one guy I worked with in the past who I felt was creepy and when I mentioned to my male colleagues I didn’t want him to come to my wedding as he is fucking creepy they were like “nah”. The arrogance of it-no of course he’s not creepy to you.

Yes I've also had men tell me that another man isn't creepy. The arrogance! Because he hasn't been creepy towards them (!) he isn't creepy. The suggestion that I must have imagined it because he's a good bloke (to them).

The implication was that I couldn't take a joke and a was being a bit silly. That I'd over reacted and made everyone fel a bit awkward. That I'd embarrassed everyone...

I suppose trying to pass it off as a bit of a joke took the focus away from the fact that he was being a sleazy letch and was a way of asking me out to be in the wrong for taking him seriously rather than him 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you’re the ‘nice’ one - you’re the easy target to let the perv off the hook because it’s easier to blame the insecure woman than condemn the dickhead male in the situation

It works both ways, women do it too

Thank you for the messages of support on here. I’ve been surprised by how much this has affected me and been on my mind this week. I really started to doubt myself and my role in it all (did I give him reason to think I wanted it? did not speaking up make me complicit with it? have I disrespected my friend and DH? etc.), as well as how violated I felt (and felt guilty for this too, as obviously many people experience much worse than this!) Having spoken to a few other friends this week though, he apparently has form for this kind of thing and worse (which is why another friend had declined the invite). Sadly (but perhaps understandably), his wife is not interested in hearing it.

OP,
This really is not on you.

I can well imagine the upset and distaste.

This is not normal behaviour in friendship circles let me assure you.

Most married men do not behave like this, the few that do are usually known as lecherous creeps.

As for those stories of women being made to feel bad up upsetting the evening, really unbelievably awful.

Avoid their company and be honest with friends why.

His wife is to be pitied for accepting such behaviour.

Did anyone actually say it was ok when women do it to men? No, of course not. Just another excuse from you to shoehorn into a thread, what about the menz...

The main issue is that many women are socialised into playing nice and not causing a scene in a way that most men aren't. I am on forums that many men frequent, and this kind of thing never comes up, even though they talk about lots of personal stuff...

It’s horrible how when In the thick of it , we don’t speak up
let her be cool
she knows the truth
i would cut ties and let them loose

To freeze and try to move away is the most common response.
I've seen women celebrities freeze when a guy gets handsy on stage.

Creep knew it was a perfect set up as it was your friends bd and he was counting on you not saying anything. Yuck.
I wonder if the seating was on purpose too?

Is there anything that can be done now that would help? Your DH having a word with him?

OP, not your fault. I'm heartened by the posters calling out the disgusting victim blaming.

Also, calling it out doesn't always work. In my early 20s I worked for a big company in a junior role. At a drinks event, one of the execs slid his hand down my back onto my bum. I stepped away and instinctively said "don't touch me". He roared with laughter and said he'd given me a friendly pat on the back and I was "jumpy", and kept saying "she thinks I'm after her" "don't get too close, she'll call you a rapist". Lots of people seemed to think it was funny, but I do wonder now if they had his measure. But it was humiliating, I felt so small. These men know exactly what they're doing.

A bit of a pity that those who noticed didn't come to your aid. Your post reminded me of years ago when i was young and caught a train to work, this particular man used to make a point of sitting next to me, and I never sat in the same place either, but he would always find me.

He would touch my bum as i would get up to leave, or run his hand up my leg, I had no idea who he was, I was so embarrassed.

Why can't people help out when seeing these things happen?

He's a predator.

There's four responses to difficult situations- flight, fight, friend, freeze. You froze and that's a totally normal response. You didn't do anything wrong and from the sounds of it the husband manipulated this situation. I'd give him a wide berth and just see how wife is if she's cool leave her to it sounds like too much drama.

I am on forums that many men frequent, and this kind of thing never comes up, even though they talk about lots of personal stuff

look at the forum messages under this video, lots of men share experiences of women doing it.

None of this is your fault op, if your friend is cool, let her be cool, it's not your fault

This is not your fault at all op.

In rl I am strong, resilient and bolshy. I had a scenario years ago and I froze. Completely. My body tensed, my mouth couldn't speak and my mind went elsewhere.

I spent years kicking myself for what I should have done. If people knew, most would be completely shocked at my lack of fight.

Only years later did I learn it is a super common response.

Anyone suggesting this is remotely your fault needs a word with themselves. And some education.

That doesn't mean it's anywhere in the ballpark of the harassment that women get. How many eleven year old school boys have women exposing their genitals to them in the street, as happened to me six times by the time I was 16. Or have a predatory woman sitting next to them in the nearly empty cinema or have a woman put her hand on their knee when they were 12 years old on a train, or have a woman come up to them on a tube platform and just touch their genitals in broad daylight. Or have a woman masturbating in front of them when they come round a corner late at night to intimidate them.

And even if it did happen, it's irrelevant to the thread. If it happened to a man, the answer isn't, just pipe down because it happens to women too. The answer is, that's totally not acceptable and you shouldn't have to put up with it. But of course, that's not your agenda, is it, on this or the other threads you're on.

Agree. Nobody knows how they’ll react until it happens

You haven’t offended anyone. Her husband shouldn’t have behaved like that

Oh of course.

It's so easy to make a scene in a public place in front of friends.

How about, he shouldn't have done it in the first place?