Friend’s husband hitting on me

[JennaBear]

Looking for advice really…
Invited out by friends’ husband (who I don’t know very well) to celebrate her birthday with two other couples. I ended up sitting between her husband and another one (not mine). Throughout the whole meal, her husband kept his arm draped around my chair (which my DH saw and thought was odd, but not exactly boundary crossing), however, what my DH didn’t see, was that he also kept touching my back, rubbing my bra strap, pushing his legs against mine, touching my hand, etc. It made me feel REALLY uncomfortable (and not just because both our spouses were there, but because I didn’t want him to touch me). I tried to make this obvious by leaning as far forward as I could away from his hand, moving my legs away from him, going to the toilet in order to be able to come back and re-position myself, etc. There was nowhere else at the table to sit. I know I didn’t imagine it though, because two of my other friends were in the pub that evening and asked me afterwards if I enjoyed “being creeped on”.

Anyway, fast forward to school run this morning, and my friend seems cool with me. I might just be imagining it, but I don’t know what she saw / thought at the time. We aren’t super close, so not sure I should raise it with her. Looking for advice really (even if just retrospective advice about how I could have handled it better, as it’s left me feeling quite upset).

I am bloody furious that we live in a society that has raised women to feel that they cant tell a man to stop touching them and that challenging men is "making a scene"

This. I hope threads like this rather than victim blaming serve to help women be confident about asserting their boundaries without self censoring for fear of making other people uncomfortable. Women are not obliged to sacrifice their own comfort for arsehole, creepy men. Be kind needs to get in the bin, it only conditions women to believe their boundaries are unkind or unreasonable in some way.

If you have his number I would be inclined to text him and clearly tell him he ruined your evening by overstepping boundaries and relying on your reluctance to risk upsetting his wife to get away with it. Tell him his behaviour was seen, commented on by others and very unwelcome by you.

Take a leaf out of Mel B’s book.
Here she is calling out Louis Walsh for touching her bum on live telly.

It may or may not help to hear this but you were being sexually assaulted and no-one gets to tell other women what they should have done or felt whilst it was happening. Shock disbelief and denial are enormously common responses.

what is sexual assault page includes the following "Touching any other part of the body for sexual pleasure or in a sexual manner – for example, stroking someone’s thigh or rubbing their back." You could call 111 to report as a non emergency crime (may not help your friendship ) but if she's at the blaming you stage it pretty screwed anyway. Include details of the two witnesses who commented on you being "creeped on".

First few posters- you should be ashamed of yourselves. What bitches!

OP - I am so sorry you went through this. As girls we are conditioned not to speak up. I was groped on a bus as a young teen and said nothing. I can completely understand your reaction. I hope posting in here hasn’t made you feel worse.

oh what a creep!

The more I think about some of the victim blaming responses the more disgusted I am. It's almost arrogance as if to say "that would never happen to me". I had an ex friend like this who used to say that domestic abuse would never happen to her as she "wouldn't allow it" All those victim blaming posters should be thoroughly ashamed

Jesus Christ, the victim blaming on this thread has knocked me sick. Absolutely shameful.

It makes me so cross. This meek accepting behaviour when OP could have easily called him out and stopped it puts all women at risk by giving predictors power. If you don't call him out when you easily and safely can imagine the power he feels alone with a woman in an office.

Christ, so she's not only to blame for him being a creep to her, she's to blame for putting all women at risk!

Fuck that lack of insight. It's scary when it happens to you and the fear of causing a scene, not being believed, ruining not only a friend's outing but possibly her marriage, all these things can be paralysing quite apart from the primal physical panicked reaction to a male threat. It's absolutely not your fault, OP, and nor is it your fault AT ALL if your friend is off with you. It might be easier for her to blame you - as PPs have done - rather than deal with the bigger problem that her DH is a predatory bastard. But you have done nothing wrong.

I have been in a situation similar to this. I literally froze. Many people do. It depends on your personality wether you could speak up at the time. This is his fault not yours. I bet he does this all the time and drives his wife crazy. It’s not ok though.

Your reaction is really common. You did nothing wrong. Some people on mumsnet enjoy making people feel worse, hurting others and being cruel to posters. Please ignore them.

Women are conditioned to not make a fuss, not cause a scene. I bet it wasn't clear at first what was going on. You think did that really just happen, was it an accident? Then it happens again and it's instinct to handle it quietly. Not to make a drama.

This man was a creep and a pest. This is all on him. You were put in a difficult and awkward situation. Not many women in reality would have called him out there and then. And to be honest, this guy probably mentally assessed this in advance.

I'm not sure there is anything you can do re your friend. It's a difficult situation. She probably knows what her husband has done. Misplaced anger.

The victim blaming on here is absolutely disgusting. Shame on you, absolute fucking hypocrites.

Op, sorry you experienced this. How dare he put you in such an uncomfortable position. Slimey git.

I understand you not wanting to "cause a fuss", that's perfectly normal reaction and one many people have whilst they're trying to wrap their head around what has happened/is happening.

Hope you're feeling ok. Your friend is likely to have noticed too, or someone else did. Tbh I wouldn't want to be in their company again. I know it's not her fault, but he's clearly an absolute slimeball and I doubt it's the first time he's done it.

Nobody is offended by your post OP.

All the people on here saying 'I would have said this', or 'I would have done this', have absolutely no idea what they would have done.

The man knew what position you were in and that is why he was being so blatant. He was banking on you being too uncomfortable to say anything.

I would definitely turn down any further invites and just ignore from now on.

Fucking Hell
So not only is OP responsible for this scumbags behaviour towards her but for every time he behaves like this from now on?
Disgusting attitude
Of course those of us who feel able and safe to do so should challenge behaviour like this but nobody is under any obligation to and nobody bears any responsibility for anything that happens after their decision to speak out or not speak out.

So sorry this happened to you op, it's horrible and you've done nothing wrong.
Friends husband's have come onto be x 2 (two different sets of friends/husband's) but not by actual touching, they opportunistically expressed what they'd like to happen between us, one when his wife was out of the room and one via a message on messenger.

For what it's worth I obviously told them no straight but it was very awkward and I felt intense discomfort and anxiety. I didn't tell their wives as it was their fault what they did and why should I make my life more difficult and complicated? If one wife hadn't taken kindly to it out could have adversely affected my career. However I still have the evidence should I need it.

I told a (former) male friend about one incident and he implied I must have led him on in some way... Not the case. But it's evident from the victim blaming on this thread that this is a widely held view.

I think if you can distance yourself, you will find new and better friends with respectful partners and you could do without the drama in your life.

Next time - if there is a next time - say loudly and clearly "LEAVE ME ALONE!"

Fuck it, if it hurts his feelings, fuck it, if it spoils the ambience. Don't allow yourself to be groped because you don't want to upset anyone.

I can't believe some posters are blaming you for not speaking up.

@redbigbananafeet Comments like yours, make me cross! Of course nobody should be subjected to what the OP had to go through! Why are you blaming her? Blame the perpetrator!

FYI, I have a son with selective mutism, who is unable to speak up in certain situations, selective mutism or not, not everyone has the confidence to speak up for themselves! Would you blame my son for not speaking up for himself if he was in a situation where he needed to verbalise himself to get his point across!

Perhaps learning some empathy, and how best to respond to someone when they've been through a traumatic and uncomfortable experience, would be a good port of call for some people.

Telling what they should have done, for the good of all womenkind, is a really shitty response. And the exact kind of response that stops women and victims from speaking up about their experiences. Why would they, if they're just judged and ripped to shreds for it.

I'm not going to comment on whether OP could have handled it better as I wasn't the one dealing with him. Why should it be on OP to challenge him? Will the rest of the group continue to tolerate his behaviour? Several people noticed him.

Its a shitty thing for him to do to his wife on her birthday and makes me wonder about their relationship behind closed doors.

For clarity - going home with a headache is ok
going to loo and then texting oh /friend from the loo is ok
doing a mel b and just saying wtaf do you think you're doing is ok
excuse me this is my chair - is ok
Yelling at him is ok
stabbing him in the thigh with a fork - or threatening him is ok

not doing any of those things is ok, natural and an instinctive response that predators like these learn to manipulate and rely on. He's a mahoosive CF'er and whilst it may not be in your interests to pursue it is criminal.

Yup.

And those who 'definitely' would have said 'something', well, good for you. How about concentrating on what this creepy fucker shouldn't have been doing instead of calling out OP for not reacting in the way you think you'd have done?

Op you have done nothing wrong and have not been weak. If you felt you wanted to readdress the balance, I would message him and repeat to him exactly what he did, the fact that didn't want him to do that and if he ever did anything like that again you would call him out regardless of where you were or who you were with. I feel angry for you. You might even choose to call him a fucking sleaze bag and threaten to kick him in the cock next time you see him.

It's easy to get 'trapped' in social situations because above all we mustn't make a scene. Add that in any given situation we have flight-fight-freeze-fawn options and it's best to let your intuition pick which one to use at the time (read The Gift Of Fear), and there are any number of reasons why you didn't reach out and break his damned fingers, pour red wine over his head and shout 'You CAD!' while flouncing dramatically, or any other option.

Let it be known to your good friends how uncomfortable you were, and how you didn't encourage anything, but equally felt unable to make a scene. Don't give a shit about anyone else, or try to make excuses to those who will not hear.

Lord i wouldn't have said anything at the time either! I'd have been crippled with awkwardness and embarrassment and would have hated to have upset the birthday party.

Easy to say shoulda coulda woulda, but when you're in a big group of people some of whom you don't know well you don't want to become the centre of a scene. You just hope it's all going to stop.

Hard now to say what to do OP. I guess there's no right answer. You could try to talk to your friend - but that would be a convo which she won't want to hear. What a wanker her DH is.

I am bloody furious that we live in a society that has raised women to feel that they cant tell a man to stop touching them and that challenging men is "making a scene"

I agree.
I have asked for my post to be deleted. It was in no way meant to offend or victim blame. I think @Hoppinggreen has worded it far less clumsily than I did.

I'm not a bitch really - for those who called me one