Awake and pondering the end of my long marriage

[dontknowhow2feela]

I'm awake again. Sleeping is not easy anyway but it's been worse since he told me it's over. We'd been together since the cusp of becoming adults. I care for him and know although we functioned well together it wasn't a full relationship of recent years. I was grateful when he stopped hugging me at night as it was just a distraction from whatever I was reading. My immediate response was relief when he told me. I know this is right but untangling our lives still hurts.

He is really trying to do this the 'right way' and end with me before he starts his new relationship but his new relationship has already started. He's been developing feelings for her over long Zoom chats through lockdown and met her a year ago for coffee without telling me. He tried to deny his feelings by talking about our future. Telling me he wanted to work on our relationship and reintroduce sex as we'd not been intimate for some years. I was initially excited when he said this. I'd always done the heavy lifting in the relationship but stopped 5 years ago or so when I said I'd match his input and if he wanted things to change he needed to step up. He did try a little of recent months and I felt awful that even though he was trying to instigate some intimacy I still wasn't really on board. I now know the reality is he didn't really want to work on it with me at all and it was a half hearted attempt. It makes sense I still wasn't getting any real connection from him as he was hugging his secret meeting and his burgeoning feelings to himself. His emotions were fully entangled with her.

He went on his 'first date' at the weekend and before he went I started divorce proceedings. He looked shellshocked. Apparently they discussed it afterwards and she was surprised it was so quick. Maybe she doesn't realise he has left me for her. Possibly they are both in a shared fantasy that the ending of this relationship has nothing to do with them being together. From my perspective when your DH tells you he is obsessed with a woman who has made major life decisions as a result of the strength of her feelings for him, it feels a bit late for HRT and relationship counselling! I care for him but I don't care enough about our relationship right now to fight for it.

I'm concerned for our young adult kids, one isn't taking it too well which is a real worry. but I grieve and mourn and am excited and relieved in equal measure. I know I will be ok and I know our relationship will be better as a result of this, whether we are apart for the rest of our lives or if our shared history and companionship brings us together at some unnamed point in the future...but right now it's hard and I wish I could get some sleep!

I so admire your apparent togetherness. I regularly have days now where the so-called five stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance) fight it out in my head for attention , in fact it’s more tumultuous in there now than when we first agreed to separate, or when I decided to remove my rings for the last time, or when he moved out. I wish I knew how to achieve the serenity you seem to possess! I have bought several self-help books: CBT and ACT based but as a dyed-in-the-wool sceptic and cynic I can’t really be getting on with them. The only thing that helps at the moment is half a bottle of wine before bedtime but that is not really sustainable in the long run….

@dontknowhow2feela You really do sound so together - I admire you! Funny you mention the next of kin thing - I was thinking about that last night when (as usual) I couldn’t sleep. I’d pretty much decided to separate and was going through the practicalities in my head and that was one that occurred. And devastated me. Staring down the barrel of 60 with no one to claim as my next of kin. The other one that really got to me was thinking the kids either are or will be in the next couple of years away at Uni, and the only home and family they have known will be obliterated, so they will have lost their anchor, the place they can always return to. Now I’m second guessing my decision. Again.

@SweetcornFritter I find that alternating between wine and gin makes it feel more sustainable…

Also my mid-50s friend whose husband left her for her (ex) best friend a few years ago has recently met a new man OLD who is early 60s, low-no sex drive which is why his marriage broke up, looking for a romantic but no sex relationship. So they are definitely out there, and findable.

OP - I split up from my husband of 20 years two years ago. I had often felt huge anger and resentment towards him over the years but by the time I decided I had enough and it was over, I found the anger totally evaporated. I mostly felt relief and renewed enthusiasm for life. I had moments where I felt intimidated by life on my own and one or two moments of sadness (usually brought on by hearing music we had enjoyed when we were first together). But on a whole my emotional landscape was entire positive or neutral. So it is possible. I think by the time I had decided it was over I was just done with the relationship that had consumed me for years and it was like a door shut in me.

We have had a reasonably amicable split and I have now met someone new who makes me indescribably happy. So there are happy endings to divorce ! I had so many people tell me they were sorry we split that I started to automatically say, "it's fine and it was the right thing to do."

I also agree with you that our society puts too much emphasis on sticking together even when you both aren't happy. I felt a duty to stick with him because of the children and because my self image didn't encompass divorce. Well my children are fine and divorce has been the key to my happiness. I think many people would say the same.

"in fact it’s more tumultuous in there now than when we first agreed to separate, or when I decided to remove my rings for the last time, or when he moved out."

Sweetcorn he's not moved out yet. I'm sure there will be many emotions to come when I am alone. I've only ever spent occasional rare nights without anyone. At the moment it feels like just another skill to acquire but I know it will throw up some challenges along the way.

"I wish I knew how to achieve the serenity you seem to possess!"

This has been a work in progress for a very long time...

I had years of counselling supervision from the most amazing woman, then seven years ago, one of our DC entered a very unhealthy rebellion phase. It was excruciatingly hard to balance the needs of my DC and the needs of stbxh, who coped badly with how DC was behaving. It's when I first found Mumsnet as I lurked on the teenage threads.

I was also an unhealthily rebellious teen and realised the things my DC was struggling with were the gaps in my development I relied on stbxh to fill; we were very much two halves of a whole person at that time. I determined to round myself out so I could model how to live and knew how to help. I worked crazy hard to do so and drove stbxh along too. He did manage to change enough to be there for DC on some level.

I however worked painfully through a lifetime of anger and could mostly be found screaming and crying in the car. As life eased with DC, I was left an almost complete human in my own right and I wanted more.

So 4-5 years ago I expressed I was going to put energy into myself and made significant lifestyle changes over a couple of years. Then COVID. I can see now I slid back into old patterns while stbxh and DC were having a hard time with the restrictions. My energy went back to supporting those around me. I felt boring rather than bored but was couldn't seem to get out of the rut. Possibly because he was distancing himself from me and I was slowly grieving.

No wonder I felt relief when he told me and in a photo taken not long after he did, I am glowing. Now in photos I look mostly tired because here I am, awake again!

So the serenity does probably come from raging as missed it said but as I type this I realise I may have done mine some years ago before this even happened. That explains a lot and brings me some comfort for now.

I have my first counselling session today and then we have a long car journey together. Wish me luck...

Thank you squid

"I was just done with the relationship that had consumed me for years"
That's how I feel. How it happened smarts a bit and it was a shock but I know we'll both be better for this.

Your story gives me great hope, thank you

I know I will be ok and I know our relationship will be better as a result of this, whether we are apart for the rest of our lives or if our shared history and companionship brings us together at some unnamed point in the future

Speaking from experience I'd say that it may not turn out like that. At the moment you are still together, he is confiding in you etc. But once you are apart and he is actually with her, your position will be far apart from him. Men have a habit of making a new life, leaving their old life behind. You need to prepare for that, make a life for yourself and protect your kids. Good luck. .

I love this post.

I hope today's counselling session goes well. When you start to reflect on reasons for hope, here are two:

• In the middle of a break-up after a long relationship, what looms largest is what you're losing. That can be agonising. As time goes by, you start to be able to focus on the open horizon ahead. For me, that feeling of finally being in the driving seat of my own life has been exhilarating.

• You write brilliantly well, as well as any journalist or book writer (I trained as a journalist and have written a few books). You talk about the option of pursuing your education in some way: I'd say that should involve using your writing skills. You are unusually gifted.

What a poignant thread. 33 years is so long. What about all those memories he's going to have? Is he just going to box them up in his head? I agree with the PP who comment that they think he might change his mind about getting into a relationship with OW. I would bet on it actually.
Also, the PP who said about biological clock. This happened to someone I know. She never wanted children, 'hated' them throughout virtually all of her thirties. Suddenly she's got two in quick succession by the age of 40. Surely he doesn't want that all over again?

@PotteringPondering I agree - the OP’s posts on here could form the basis of a great blog, or book even. I’ve certainly gained a lot from her writing (and others’ contributions to it) in a very short space of time.

Counselling this morning went well. My scores suggest I am in a better place than two weeks ago although still showing signs of depression. TBH I'd be amazed if I wasn't at this stage. I'm really not concerned for my mental health.

The therapist wondered where my anger was. She said it's obvious historically I take on too much responsibility which I shared is something I was well aware of and have worked hard to redress. I'm looking forward to my session next week.

We drove to move our DC. He's done all the driving for years as he didn't like being a passenger and I didn't really care. Today I decided I wanted to drive so he had to navigate for me, listen to my music and feed me snacks I enjoyed the journey.

We spoke a bit about our relationship. I did say I know I've been teasing him about OW and new family but in all seriousness, he may want to consider it a real possibility she may want children and is he really up for that.

As we spoke, I told him I bear her no ill will but she's not exactly my favourite person. He'd told me we were very alike but she developed feelings and told him which shows a go getting attitude but not very much integrity. Therefore we are quite different in at least one very fundamental way! I pointed out it's easy to be whoever you want on Zoom for a few hours every week and I hope she is everything he is looking for but if he realises at some stage he would like to try again I've asked him to not make the decision for me this time and to let me know that's how he's feeling. I may not want him back and the longer it goes on, the less likely it may be but he should at least do me the courtesy of asking.

DC was not in a good way. They are dealing with a lot at the moment and have felt our split keenly. I found it hard to look at ex when we got back to the hotel as I couldn't help but think he's added this extra layer of complexity, although I also know the situation has also enabled DC to finally start talking.

God it's such a mess. It would be so much easier if it were just me that was being affected.

Hi shipping I know we may not stay in each other's lives but many people around us have done so and developed really good friendships. We have seen it happen so know it can be done and are both committed to trying at the moment.

Wow pottering and sweetcorn, thank you. You have no idea how much that means. As someone who left school at 13 and only gained my English GCSE as an adult in 2020, it's particularly meaningful.

And pottering , thank you for your words of hope. I literally sat in the driving seat today and felt goooood

Ok everyone, hold onto your hats, some anger has started to kick in!

I'm feeling angry that he wouldn't make himself vulnerable enough to deal with his issues before now.

I'm angry that all it took was someone to yank his chain and he jumped ship immediately.

I'm angry he gave up on us when I didn't.

I still know this is right and now it has to happen and it is not white hot anger (yet?) but it is there. I'll gleefully share it with him tomorrow

I barely slept last night. Today I shared with him the things I am angry about. I told him everything I've said over the past few weeks still stands. However, underneath lies the emotion...

I'm angry that when I withdrew and he didn't know how to reach me, he didn't even try, he didn't read, suggest relationship counselling, talk to me, talk to anyone...he did nothing.

I'd take it personally but I know he cares about his kids and has done nothing to connect with them emotionally either.

I know who I am, he knows what he likes to do. The connections with the children are surface and based around his hobbies. I was under the mistaken impression he actually talked with them but I've now discovered his interactions are almost exclusively based around shared interests and memes. Nothing of any substance. Nothing where he could be vulnerable.

I pointed out where his experiences could help our struggling DC and yet he's never shared. He said he didn't want to burden them. I pointed out how mistaken he was and trust me, he was very mistaken in this.

I stated his month of ramblings on a word document when he was building up to leave me sounds like something a teenager would do. No research, no planning, no thought to how to break the news gently to any of us, not even his children. Pure selfishness about how difficult he was going to find it and gearing himself up to do the deed.. Not looking beyond his discomfort at all.

I shared he's never taken a risk or pushed himself. We were both like that but I've changed in the last few years, I said I initially thought he was being brave but this isn't brave. He laughed incredulously as he exclaimed how stressful this is. I countered he waited until she was a dead cert and she's the easy option. To develop emotional connections with our family he'd have to work. He'd have to face the shame of his past failings. With her, it's fresh and new. He has a clean slate and can ignore and walk away from all that's gone before. He admitted he's cherry picked the narrative to her to make himself look infallible. I asked what he will do when he screws up something with her? Will he ignore it or will he move on again; perpetually lonely as he runs from facing himself.

I said her life reflects her single status but I bear the scars of our 33 year relationship. I told him he's punching up again, his security is alluring and maybe that's the attraction. He sneered at the idea I was more attractive than him. He didn't remember how much attention I used to get. He didn't know people asked me often why I didn't aim for better than him (male and female). I shared I stayed overweight over the years to stop the attention of others as I couldn't trust myself not to leave. I didn't trust myself to flirt as a modicum of connection from elsewhere may have seduced me to go. He's been happily flirting away without a sniff of reciprocal interest until now (apart from an exclusively text based flirtation taken the wrong way years ago). I've had people reach out over the years but have shut them down. I told him he's never actually appreciated what he had.

He was affected and expressed rawness. I had compassion but didn't reassure. It's not my job any more.

He countered he'd given everything to our family and I concurred. However I pointed out so had I. I reminded him I've been defending him precisely for this reason.

I told him I am able to manage my emotions and this is all historical. Everything I 'm angry about relates to our past, not where we find ourselves now. He has been quiet and reflective and has distanced himself. He has much to ponder.

I feel powerful. I wasn't cruel. I was considered and specific. It's in his hands now. How he deals with it is up to him...

...and just like that, we seem ok again.

Today has been an emotional rollercoaster for more reasons than my sharing.

I realised my DC needed validation for how they were feeling and to see that I'm not a doormat who is minimising his actions. That's why I found my voice today and I feel much better for doing so.

He was a bit crabby but fair enough. He challenged some elements but accepted most of what I said. He can see how he's messed up, particularly with the children. I urged him to get some help to work it through.

This evening, he got very angry about something unconnected and I ended up talking him down. I suggested he contact OW but he said it wouldn't be fair to put it on her...!!! I was in the middle of my DC and him again and it felt like rewinding six years. However, he did manage to keep hold of his temper and sit out the issue.

He was snapping at me and made a crack about me being more attractive than him. I pointed out he's gone off with a gorgeous younger woman less than a month ago. Give me a break. He apologised, we laughed, and just like that, all seemed well again.

I am really quite tired now so hopefully I'll sleep.

I'm angry that when I withdrew and he didn't know how to reach me, he didn't even try, he didn't read, suggest relationship counselling, talk to me, talk to anyone...he did nothing.

I'm feeling angry that he wouldn't make himself vulnerable enough to deal with his issues before now.

I'm angry that all it took was someone to yank his chain and he jumped ship immediately.

I'm angry he gave up on us when I didn't.

God, I could have written these sentences. (Pretty much have in my journal). I know you don’t entirely agree, but I think our situations are very very similar. If my H’s affair had started online and I’d found out/he’d told me in the heady hormonal early days I would be where you are. Instead he’d had a year of physically being with her for the novelty to wear off before I found out. (They’re both essential workers so were physically present at work throughout COVID).

Mine is now in a place where he can acknowledge his guilt and shame and previous cold, distancing behaviour as he’s desperate to save our marriage. He’s having therapy too to try to understand where his coldness, his inability to appear vulnerable or less than perfect comes from. (I’ve met his family - I have a pretty good idea…).

None of this helps you of course, but I do hear you, and I’m still reading. And I’m glad you’ve found your anger - I find it an empowering emotion, it makes me feel stronger. Sadness feels weak to me…

Thanks Missed it (oh look, what a surprise, I'm awake!)

We spoke about settling for each other last night. He said it didn't feel like he'd settled for me for a long time It did start to feel that way however but he wasn't sure when.

Laying here in bed, I considered how four/five years ago I was the one to talk about settling and how we were together as an accident of fate. I was the one to ponder if we should be together anyway. I just started to think I'll have to eat humble pie for breakfast as I was the one to put the idea in his head.

Then I realised, we both had a responsibility to this relationship. When I mused, he could have countered. He could have said he didn't feel like we settled for each other or he could have agreed and said he was wondering the same thing. Instead, he said nothing.

I agree their are many parallels in our stories Missed it. Whilst he is making his peace with being a middle aged cliche, I am comforted by knowing the same.

Thank you for sharing your story, I am going through something similar but I am a coward and do not have the strength you have. He had an emotional affair and he's been very nasty to me, but still I try and get him to pick me - i am ashamed of myself, our marriage lasted 22 years before he fell in love with someone 30 years younger than him, i dont count the last 2 years we've been together as being married. Our divorce is playing out really slowly with him dragging his feet. The future looks scary but i am lonely living in the house with him.
You have given me hope and some encouragement to stand my ground - i deserve much better - Thank you x

Us?

Oh yeah what is it with these men and being such fucking middle aged cliches? My H’s situation really is the absolute classic mid-life crisis scenario for his profession. Just needs to buy a sports car and a vineyard and complete the fucking trifecta.

I’ve said to mine exactly that, that I feel like he’s “settling” for me, like I’m the easy, default, fallback option. Second choice. Convenient, because if we stay together he can just pick up his life where it left off with kids, friends and family none the wiser about what a shit he is. It’s a powerful incentive. He says no, I’m who he wants, he chooses me. I think I believe him. Maybe. I’m still not sure if I will choose him, which he says he understands.

Hope you’re asleep now - scrolling MN has been my saviour many a sleepless 4am (this is not one of them although I didn’t sleep much last night the ruminations were strong for some reason, I’m not in the uk and it’s afternoon here).

Fascinating and wonderful to stumble on such a thoughtful thread.
All I can add is after my relationship with my DC's father ended four years ago, I have learned so much about myself and my life, my choices, my parenting mistakes - the whole nine yards. You are still so close to your conjoined life, there's so much rich learning still to come I promise you. And not all of it will be comfortable in all probability- but the quality of relationship I have with my ex is something I cherish now, we are something better than friends. With good will, understanding, all that love, care, connection, need not vanish when the relationship ends. It can morph into something new and sustaining. And of course all the freedoms and potential that re-emerge - like being 20 again, that sense of "what shall I do with my life now!" Which is both thrilling and scary - are the gift of the breakup. I wish you very well OP and enjoy your sharing.

OP,
Good for you for venting your anger whilst you have him nearby.

He really does read as a deeply vacuous selfish little man.

His ramblings about how he would cope with a split tells you everything about his character.

He is a very shallow man to have not given his children any thought.

But he is consistent.

He has never pushed for deep connection s with his children but has been satisfied with puddle level knowledge of who they really are.

And don't they know it.

His protection of his OW seeing him as he really is, is interesting.

He's no prize and he knows it.

I appreciate that your emotions are in transition at the moment, but as others have written, I think you will soon be in a place where you will be far happier without this empty vessel rattling around you and your life.

Hi Latenight I'm so sorry to read that. It does help my stbxh is currently treating me with empathy and respect. I'm definitely finding the thread helpful and I'm glad it is providing good things to you too.

4nonblondes ?
*
Missedit* I told my neighbour a couple of days ago. He asked if he was going to be buying a red sports car next . I did sleep some more. Thank you.

Thank you Sophia. Yes I have much learning yet to do but I not nearly as much as him and it won't be nearly as painful.

I've told my DC that as part of their healing they need to be angry with me and the world that failed them but I will be there when their anger has run dry. I take comfort from knowing as soon as I knew better, I worked hard to do better. He knows he's failed them (because I told him) but hasn't fully realised how much until now.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I really hope I find that with him.

Billy you are so wonderfully uncompromising In your posts I love how much your are on my side and you always elevate me. I agree re the protection of his image re OW. She has only seen his public persona which really is very agreeable. How long he can keep that up or how much and how quickly he can change is anyones guess?

I really don't like to generalise but hey ho am just going to do that.

I believe that the overwhelming majority of men are selfish.

The spectrum of selfishness is the point of possible discussion.

So many are just instinctively about themselves and only give the minimum they can get away with.

That includes their children.
It takes time, energy and a deep selfless love to connect with your children and so many just don't feel it.

They will tell you they love their children but it really is a very surface love.

In my long life I know many people who had the surface love and relationships with their fathers, and I see it around me to this day.

But the fathers that had deep connections with their children are few and far between.

Certainly not more than 3 or 4 friends have said this ever to me.
That they felt their father was their champion and confidante.

Many others, like myself, had fathers who were distant men, left the rearing to their wives and who were not to be troubled as they had enough going on with their big important jobs and lives.

Nowadays hobbies like golf and cycling are used by men to be avoidant parents and leave the details to their wives.

Men instinctively put themselves first and it is only as time goes on it increasingly becomes an issue.

OP, you have clearly done the heavy lifting in your marriage because he actively chose not to.

He CHOSE not to.

That is on him.

I think it is great that you are no longer feeling responsibility for his relationship with his children.

You have protected him and his ego on this front for long enough.

Time you put this energy into areas of your life instead of being scaffolding for his.

This is so so true!

He is in love with someone else...fuck

Hes in love with himself.
An awful lot of men are.

This isnt about her, its all about him, his ego, his needs, his wants.
Pinned at the top of the board is the cheaters script.
Have fun ticking things off one by one.