25 years and out for clearing a shelf!

[Superness]

I’m 50 in less than two weeks, have been with my partner for 25 years, we have two school aged children together, and this week It looks like we’ve come to an end. Things aren’t perfect between us but overall we tick along quite nicely until something trivial happens which blows up disproportionately. On this occasion, I was cleaning the house because we were thinking about moving and I’d made an appointment for a valuation. On our hallway staircase, there is a shelf with dp’s bike gear on it plus some of the kids stuff. It’s messy as it’s an open shelf and I thought it would look nice with plants on it instead. I’d asked a few years back for a door to be put on it but it never happened….busy family life and always jobs to do. Anyway, I put some stuff away and other stuff like a bike lid, I put on the kitchen table thinking it was about time it found a new place to live. Well, when dp asked me why his bike stuff was there and I said I’d cleared the shelf because I wanted ‘my’ house’ to look nice, he went ballistic bellowing at me and repeatedly telling me ‘fuck-you’. I said what a disappointment he was for verbally abusing me over cleaning a shelf and spent the night in one of the children's room. Spent the day working but tearful and very upset. Went he came home from work and ignored me, I felt even more upset and I reacted by asking him to leave. He won’t leave. We are unmarried. He says we will sell the house and I will have to deal with the children. He won’t apologise. Apparently I was being abusive trying to remove all trace of him from this house by clearing the shelf and he’s had enough of my abuse. Honestly, his decks are in the front room, speakers in the kitchen, bike stuff in the washing machine cupboard, third bedroom and our bedroom and the garage. It seems so irrational. It’s obviously deeper than the shelf but I can’t tolerate being verbally abused and being told it’s my fault. Where do I go from here?

No, I don't think it sounds like victim blaming, and I have already said I think he is in the wrong.

Being fair, to properly baby the bikes, I assume a garage that's a connected part of the home, heating and plumbing included ...

@Alb0 you may want to apologise to @BigSkies2022 as the first question at the top of her post is a quote from another poster and she is replying (saying basically the same as you did).

The projection on this thread is quite something.

“I think he is feeling really insecure about us and I don’t know why. His ‘needs’ are obviously not being met by this relationship but I don't think there is an O/W.”

“We have indeed drifted far apart and comms are definitely failing”

“Things aren’t perfect between us but overall we tick along quite nicely until something trivial happens which blows up disproportionately.”

It’s not about the bike gear.

The relationship is non existent, your mutual meets are not being met @Superness . The difference is, you’re happy for it to continue and “tick along nicely” whereas your DP wants out just hasn’t got the balls to call it quits. So he picks up on little things to let some of his frustration out.

Your relationship is at the tipping point @Superness where any little thing can cause huge argument. I doubt any amount of counselling can help you with that. Split up and key each other free

@BigSkies2022 I apologise to you, in my has to reply to @Oscarthedog I wrongly quoted you, when should have replied to them. I'm sorry.

@Alb0 S'OK! TBH, I am spending too much time and energy on MN currently - way more than OP who is off dealing with her rather tricky day, I imagine. Gonna have to get a new rule: no MN until after 8pm or something.

I had a massive row with my husband for cleaning his desk. It's also messy, just like the shelf in your house. I actually cleaned it without asking him. I even threw away some of his stuff. Oooh, we had a big fight that I'll never forget, but he didn't say F word to me or did not say I was abusive. Having an argument is fine, I would be annoyed too (once I understand my husband's point of view), but there's something more going on with you guys. Loving husband wouldn't treat you this way. Not sure I would even want marriage counselling in your case.

In all honesty, the vibe I’m getting fro the OP’s choice of wording is that the OP makes it obvious her partner gets under her feet and has hobbies she thinks take up far too much space, and she is the one driving a move he has been strong armed into agreeing to. She even refers to the house as hers and asked him to leave it - not just a slip of the tongue, to tell someone to leave a house you refer to as yours! If he is paranoid the move is really about making him as invisible and irrelevant as possible and starting again somewhere where he and his things can be confined to one room, out of the way, then it’s not surprising he was furious to have found his possessions dumped on the kitchen table. It doesn’t sound to me like a relationship where they both do actually want to move house together - it sounds one hell of a lot more like a relationship where they do virtually nothing together and the OP is hoping to have even less involvement with him and his annoying hobbies after the move than she does now. Probably better to confront that now than to waste time moving house together to somewhere that solves none of the real problems in their relationship and simply serves to expose them more.

This is a person who has bike parts in her bedroom.

Surely that's nor normal? Even for cyclists?

Surely that's nor normal? Even for cyclists?

I know cyclists who store their bikes in the bedroom, on a thing that lets them hang it on the wall. I'm not saying that's ideal, mind. OP has bigger issues than biking gear.

Some of the posts in here are hilarious, really. Why she moved “his” stuff without asking, why she says she was cleaning “her” house, why she did not put the door on herself, weather or not it is a big deal that he has his bike stuff all over the house? Seriously people?!?!?!?

No matter what she said, that is no excuse for him to swear at her or to get all worked up about it. This is not normal behavior and it is obvious that there is whole lot more behind it, more then we know and perhaps more than OP knows.

My ex was emotionally abusive, but he never yelled at me, called me names or swore. If he ever told me “fuck you” I would have left him that instant. I think that you need to get some individual counseling to help you deal with this situation OP. I know how difficult it is to end your relationship, especially after all these years OP (I ended mine after almost 25 years too), but personally I do not think this man deserves you.

I don't think you noticed that she says 'my house'. She also says she'd asked for a door to be put on this shelf but it 'hadn't happened'. (Why? She hadn't done it? He hadn't agreed? She thinks it's his job?).

@SarahAndQuack
When it was initially suggested, nothing happened. No door was put up. He essentially refused to tidy his stuff away but has clearly filed away the suggestion of a door under the heading 'Abuse by OP', by which he clearly means 'Insubordination by OP', given the anger he displayed.

If she had put a door there herself I'm guessing this would have resulted in the same response she got to tidying it all away.

He wants his bike gear out on display. The whole point of a door is to hide it away, and remove the visual reminder of his hobby, his freedom, and his control of the house.

Well, I don't know about you, but in my house, doors don't get put up by magic, just because I say I want one. Someone has to do it. And before that, both of us have to agree that's what we actually want.

Why do you think his stuff was not 'tidy' in the first place? Why shouldn't he have his stuff out on display?

The OP wants to put a load of plants on the shelf. Is that ok with you? Or is that her 'displaying' things too? Should we all have entirely minimalist homes, with nothing on shelves?

I get why you're sympathetic to the OP (and I am too). He's in the wrong here. But it is absurd to apply one standard to her and one to him.

@SarahAndQuack I'm not applying one standard to her and one to him, and this isn't a thread about decor preferences. The context of the OP's decision is that the house is going to be valued with a view to sale, then presumably put on the market.

If it were her stuff on a shelf in the hall where something else would look tidier or more attractive, or if it made sense to amalgamate all the stuff from one category into one handy storage space, then I would say the same to her, and she might agree and then put it all somewhere else, especially with a view to presenting the house in its best possible light. I doubt she'd get in my face and explode with rage.

She suggested the door a long time ago. No door was put up. Many couples (not all but many) divide tasks outside of normal chores between DIY/men and secretarial/women. It's very possible there was an assumption that fitting a door would be his task. We don't know if he flat out refused to put up a door, or if it was a conversation that just fizzled out, or if the OP decided not to nag him about the door after he had agreed to get a door put up. If the door wasn't put up, then I suspect this was because he didn't want a door put there, and stalling on it and just never getting round to it was his way of saying no.

See SantiMakesMeLaugh's post on the topic of task turf and trench warfare among couples:

• ask previous dp to put a door = not happening. It’s not my idea, it will make slightly harder for me to get my stuff and it’s my house after all so I’m not going to do it. Plus I dont like when Santi tells me to do stuff. She is just nagging me.


• I put the door myself instead. You are not doing things right, you don’t know how to do DIY and I don’t like what you’ve done. Cue for lots of grumbling and unhappiness.


• and anyway why is she telling me where to put my stuff? I’ll do whatever I want. It’s my house and I can’t see the issue. It’s much easier for me anyway. Plus if she has an issue with it, she should be doing something about it (never mind it’s going against the first two points).

Some people will neither lead nor follow and have massive chips on their shoulders if you ask them to do one or the other.

They had both talked about selling the house. She doesn't say he had to be dragged kicking and screaming to an agreement to sell it. It looks from the OP as if she assumed he was on board and therefore it made sense to her that cleaning it up and making it look as if there was space in it for their belongings to be stowed properly would be a good idea. It's possible he hadn't thought the process through or realised that a certain amount of cleaning and clearing would be necessary if the house were to be sold, but the surprise of that alone wouldn't have caused the explosion of rage.

What caused the rage was the fact that she moved the stuff and used the phrase 'my house' to him. I suspect he believes it is his house, and that she and the children live there on sufferance. They're not married after all.

@SarahAndQuack I'm not applying one standard to her and one to him, and this isn't a thread about decor preferences. The context of the OP's decision is that the house is going to be valued with a view to sale, then presumably put on the market.

But you are ignoring the fact that she says she decided to book the valuation. Before that, they had only been discussing moving. Personally, I would be annoyed if my partner booked a valuation, and then decided to move my stuff on the grounds that it was needed for a valuation and/or a sale. It is perfectly possible he wasn't even aware a valuation booking had been arranged.

She suggested the door a long time ago. No door was put up. Many couples (not all but many) divide tasks outside of normal chores between DIY/men and secretarial/women. It's very possible there was an assumption that fitting a door would be his task. We don't know if he flat out refused to put up a door, or if it was a conversation that just fizzled out, or if the OP decided not to nag him about the door after he had agreed to get a door put up. If the door wasn't put up, then I suspect this was because he didn't want a door put there, and stalling on it and just never getting round to it was his way of saying no.

Ah, so you're saying it's ok she's sexist, and it was his job? No, I'm sorry, I disagree. We don't know what happened. It is not ok to presume that he even wanted the door to be put up - and why on earth should one partner in a relationship be entitled to lay down the law about this?! Are you really trying to say that one person in a relationship is not allowed to say no? Because that's really not a healthy relationship, in my view.

I saw - and, IIRC, replied to - Santi's speculations. I do get where she and you are coming from, but without the OP's responses, all we're all doing is guessing. I don't really follow why you think her post is any more authoritative than mine? We've both got experience of being in a relationship and disagreeing over chores ... so have most people.

I absolutely agree it is possible he is awful. He's clearly at fault for yelling at her, and we already know that. I really respect your perspective (on this thread and in general), but I just can't bring myself to see that the wider issue is so obviously black-and-white.

But you are ignoring the fact that she says she decided to book the valuation. Before that, they had only been discussing moving. Personally, I would be annoyed if my partner booked a valuation, and then decided to move my stuff on the grounds that it was needed for a valuation and/or a sale. It is perfectly possible he wasn't even aware a valuation booking had been arranged.

It is perfectly possible that he knew there was an appointment for a valuation. The OP doesn't say either way.
It's possible they discussed moving, and one or other of them said, 'We really can't make a decision until we get a valuation and a clearer understanding of what the house is worth', and she said, 'I'll book a valuation and we can talk more then'.
If a couple talks/thinks about moving and one person has a strong objection, then I would expect that that person would speak up. The OP doesn't mention any objections the P may have had.
It's really strange for one person to make a unilateral decision on a house move, book a valuation, move stuff in order to present the house nicely, experience a shitstorm of rage from the other person, and post a pack of lies here about the experience, which is what you are suggesting.

Ah, so you're saying it's ok she's sexist, and it was his job? No, I'm sorry, I disagree. We don't know what happened. It is not ok to presume that he even wanted the door to be put up - and why on earth should one partner in a relationship be entitled to lay down the law about this?! Are you really trying to say that one person in a relationship is not allowed to say no? Because that's really not a healthy relationship, in my view.
The 'sexist' charge is nonsense.
I haven't said putting up the door was his job.
Or that he said no to the door and had no right to say no.

It's really strange for one person to make a unilateral decision on a house move, book a valuation, move stuff in order to present the house nicely, experience a shitstorm of rage from the other person, and post a pack of lies here about the experience, which is what you are suggesting.

Why do you think she posted a pack of lies? I've never suggested anything of the kind - I've only pointed out that we don't know all of the facts.

I don't think it is nonsense to suggest there is sexism involved in the way you've framed your response. You (and others) seem to think that the OP is entitled to determine exactly how space in the house is used, in every room, because she sees it as 'her' house. The OP has said that her DP has stuff that is his in several rooms, and she has made it clear she objects to it. It's not easy to know who's right and who's wrong. But you seem to think that, purely because she is a woman, she gets to decide what can be kept on display and what can't. I don't follow the logic there.

So sorry to hear this … do you think your partner could be depressed ?
lashing out is a common symptom of this …
I hope you have lots of support ?

Projecting onto you. Hes saying yr doing what he is doing. IE, hes the abuser. Read up on narcissistic personality disorder, you'll be enlightened. The FB groups on the subject would help you understand and know how to deal with it. Pls go there, there are many. Good luck.

His behavior is abusive, but maybe there is a reason for his outburst (NOT necessarily anything YOU did. Did HE know that you were thinking about moving, or was this something you decided on your own? If he didn't know about it, then he had some reason to be upset, but he's carrying it to far. If he DID know about it, then he's carrying it WAY TOO FAR.)

You are right to think that something else is going on with him: the shelf is just an excuse.
Maybe he is having some kind of problem at work, or has found someone else, or has some kind of brain malfunction (tumor, or maybe just psychological).
I think you both need a cooling off period, and a talk to a counselor.
Some people don't apologize, but find other ways to smooth things over.

Do you have any mutual friends you can ask for advice?

I'd be interested to hear what he has to say about the situation.

@HowlongWillThisTakeNow
Perhaps you should have put stuff away and she would not have had to tidy all your stuff.

OP has already said that "We" were thinking of moving and had agreed to get a valuation.

Is'nt it completely normal to tidy up for a valuation? and if OP thought the shelf of bike parts in the entryway would be off putting to buyers /valuers then of course she cleared the shelf. That's home selling 010 isn't it?

She left the stuff on the table ( instead of putting it in the bin or dumping in the garage) so that he could have a look through and see if he still wanted it or could find a different place.
Why is this raised as excusing his subsequent horrible behaviour?