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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

25 years and out for clearing a shelf!

202 replies

Superness · 07/06/2022 22:08

I’m 50 in less than two weeks, have been with my partner for 25 years, we have two school aged children together, and this week It looks like we’ve come to an end. Things aren’t perfect between us but overall we tick along quite nicely until something trivial happens which blows up disproportionately. On this occasion, I was cleaning the house because we were thinking about moving and I’d made an appointment for a valuation. On our hallway staircase, there is a shelf with dp’s bike gear on it plus some of the kids stuff. It’s messy as it’s an open shelf and I thought it would look nice with plants on it instead. I’d asked a few years back for a door to be put on it but it never happened….busy family life and always jobs to do. Anyway, I put some stuff away and other stuff like a bike lid, I put on the kitchen table thinking it was about time it found a new place to live. Well, when dp asked me why his bike stuff was there and I said I’d cleared the shelf because I wanted ‘my’ house’ to look nice, he went ballistic bellowing at me and repeatedly telling me ‘fuck-you’. I said what a disappointment he was for verbally abusing me over cleaning a shelf and spent the night in one of the children's room. Spent the day working but tearful and very upset. Went he came home from work and ignored me, I felt even more upset and I reacted by asking him to leave. He won’t leave. We are unmarried. He says we will sell the house and I will have to deal with the children. He won’t apologise. Apparently I was being abusive trying to remove all trace of him from this house by clearing the shelf and he’s had enough of my abuse. Honestly, his decks are in the front room, speakers in the kitchen, bike stuff in the washing machine cupboard, third bedroom and our bedroom and the garage. It seems so irrational. It’s obviously deeper than the shelf but I can’t tolerate being verbally abused and being told it’s my fault. Where do I go from here?

OP posts:
layladomino · 08/06/2022 08:51

If he has bike stuff scattered in several rooms and you've been accepting of that, however irritating, you've been very patient. You both agreed to get a valuation. You did what people do, which is to tidy up the obvious mess. You didn't throw anything out, you just pointed out that it needed to find a new place. Nothing unreasonable about that on the face of it.

His response is so extreme it's either what mathanxiety said, or he's finally boiled over after (what he thinks, or is) years of PA digs, and suggestions that it's actually your house.

LakieLady · 08/06/2022 08:52

If my partner had moved my stuff from a shelf etc, I'd be pretty pissed off tbh. It's my stuff, and I like to know where it is and not have someone else moving it. And I wouldn't have done that to my (late) DP, who I'm convinced was the messiest man that ever walked the earth.

When the chaos reached a level that I found unacceptable, I'd explain that it was getting me down and could we sort out whichever part of the house was getting overrun with his clutter. And we'd do it together, including working out what was needed in the way of additional storage etc.

He was a biker, too. I wonder if bikers are more inclined to hoard and be chaotic than other men?

But his response was disproportionate, unless there's a huge subtext, so imo you're both BU.

CaptSkippy · 08/06/2022 08:54

BigSkies2022 · 08/06/2022 08:45

Why is men's rights activist such a bad thing are female or black rights activists worse or better?

Off-topic, and it's not my job to educate you, but I would just point out that you appear to have missed out on around, oh, 250 years of analysis of why rights to liberty, equality, etc, although supposedly universal, are not enjoyed equally by all. And that the claims and grievances of those disadvantaged by sex, gender, race are not symmetrical with those of privileged groups. You could remedy this gap, but I suspect you won't try.

OP, it sounds bad. It seems obvious that if you had discussed and agreed selling and moving, and getting an evaluation done, then tidying and decluttering is the next logical step. Only you know if you are keener on this move than your partner, and if you began the decluttering in a needling, aggressive way, to push a move; but that kind of reaction is unacceptable. He needs to express reservations or doubts in more mature, less attacking way. If that's what it's about.

Personally, I couldn't live with someone who wanted to mark territory and claim so much space for their hobby. And wouldn't compromise on sharing space.

What do you think should happen next? What do you want to happen?

Because MRA is a misnomer. They don't care about men's rights. They want the right to curtail women's rights and to force women back into the kitchen, so to speak. They want women to be completely and utterly dependent on men so we can't leave abusive relationships, so they have a free mommy bangmaid in the house they can treat as horribly as they please without women being allowed to say anything about it.

That's what they are really after. Are they "worse" (as you say) than BLM activists and feminists? Considering they want to take people's rights way, I would say so, wouldn't you?

ScrollingLeaves · 08/06/2022 08:55

@SarahAndQuack · Yesterday 23:11
I mean, I do think if my DP organised a house valuation, moved my stuff hoping it'd 'find a new place to live' and called it cleaning

On this occasion, I was cleaning the house because we were thinking about moving and I’d made an appointment for a valuation.

OP said “we were thinking of selling the house” not, “I”.

As for making the appointment, only one person can actually do that at a time. But just as OP would be left to look after the children by her DH - alone, no doubt it is not at all unusual for her DH to leave her to sort anything out.

It does seem what she did was cleaning given the plan. It also sounds as though DH has put far too much of his personal stuff all over. Is his ego the equivalent?

MrsLargeEmbodied · 08/06/2022 08:56

why did you say my house
do you say my children

is there an anxiety from either of you from not being married?

CaptSkippy · 08/06/2022 08:59

MrsLargeEmbodied · 08/06/2022 08:56

why did you say my house
do you say my children

is there an anxiety from either of you from not being married?

Jeez, are now going to start policing women's words to the point where we chastise them for not using the word "we"? It is her house. They are her children. It's also his house and his children. She was not wrong.

What is with all these double standards on this forum lately?

dumdumduuuummmmm · 08/06/2022 09:00

@CaptSkippy I think we can all agree that the outburst is not simply due to clearing a shelf. Even the OP acknowledges this. Agree that the shelf is a red herring. It’s so irrational. He said I am trying to erase him from the house. The OP used proprietorial language throughout. 'My' house, 'my children'. Big red flags

MrsLargeEmbodied · 08/06/2022 09:02

how can you say double standards @CaptSkippy
i am one poster,
we are not a forum of identical opinions

SarahAndQuack · 08/06/2022 09:03

@mathanxiety, I don't think you noticed that she says 'my house'. She also says she'd asked for a door to be put on this shelf but it 'hadn't happened'. (Why? She hadn't done it? He hadn't agreed? She thinks it's his job?).

That all puts quite a different spin on the theory of him marking territory (though I do see why you're suggesting that).

It could be he's an abusive dick; it could equally be that they both argue about the house and really need to communicate a bit.

ringemoooo · 08/06/2022 09:04

On this occasion, I was cleaning the house because we were thinking about moving and I’d made an appointment for a valuation

"We" were thinking about moving.
"I" was cleaning the house. "I'd" made an appointment.

The decision about moving is joint, yet the work needed to put the house on the market falls to the OP.
She has spent years asking him to move the bike stuff but he won't.
All these people going on about her being controlling and abusive - would you really want to spend 25 years living in a home with bike stuff strewn all over the place (see the description in the OP)? I just don't believe you would. You would want your partner to find a place for it and keep it in one location - eg. the third bedroom - not randomly all over the place. You'd also be asking him to move it.

Of course, we don't know what really goes on in a relationship but this one obviously isn't working. Nobody should be shouting and swearing at someone for moving some stuff to try to make the place nice to get ready to sell. It's unacceptable to behave like that. And maybe the OP is passive aggressive or whatever some posters have chosen to label her as and perhaps the DP had just had enough in that moment. But in end effect, something is deeply wrong here.

If I were the OP I'd be considering whether I wanted to stay with him. She's 50, does she want to have to live like this for potentially another 30 years or even longer. And getting some advice on the legal position wouldn't be a bad idea either. She doesn't have to go through with anything - but knowledge gives you options.

CaptSkippy · 08/06/2022 09:06

dumdumduuuummmmm · 08/06/2022 09:00

@CaptSkippy I think we can all agree that the outburst is not simply due to clearing a shelf. Even the OP acknowledges this. Agree that the shelf is a red herring. It’s so irrational. He said I am trying to erase him from the house. The OP used proprietorial language throughout. 'My' house, 'my children'. Big red flags

Oh, gosh. OP didn't do enough to placate his fragile masculinity. Cry me a river.

He was bang out of order and yeah I am sure that wasn't the first time.

MrsLargeEmbodied · 08/06/2022 09:07

it sounds like one row tbh
move on
i hope you can communicate properly about what is going on

CaptSkippy · 08/06/2022 09:08

MrsLargeEmbodied · 08/06/2022 09:02

how can you say double standards @CaptSkippy
i am one poster,
we are not a forum of identical opinions

It's easy to point out the double standards. Op's partner sulks, cusses and leaves his mess for years for others to clean up.

But OP is the problem for not saying "we". I'd say there is a clear double standard here and only someone with blinders on would miss it.

Valeriekat · 08/06/2022 09:09

girlmom21 · 08/06/2022 06:10

You sound controlling and condescending to be fair.

You 'thought it might find a new place to live' without asking him. You moved stuff that's been there for years because it suited you. You told him he was a 'disappointment' for swearing - that's a really bizarre way to phrase things.

Is there any truth in the abuse accusations?

No she really doesn't!

Innocenta · 08/06/2022 09:12

@CaptSkippy The misogynists can't keep away from threads where women are seeking actual help, it seems. Desperate to redirect the blame onto the woman. 🙄

Innocenta · 08/06/2022 09:13

@CaptSkippy It's heartening to see your posts.

Lovemypeaceandquiet · 08/06/2022 09:13

The @Superness and her DP have got 25 years of history together.

Im sure the is a lot of relationship breakdown happening that has happens prior to the “shelf incident”. It was probably just the last straw.

SarahAndQuack · 08/06/2022 09:15

In all honesty, I think when the OP says 'we' were thinking of moving but it's 'my' house and 'I' did the valuation, I am wondering whether he actually wants to move at all.

It may be he's a horrible, abusive man - I don't know. But it's equally possible he does feel the OP gets to make a lot of decisions; I don't know.

I am not clear why plants on a shelf are somehow different from bike stuff, except aesthetically. It seems odd to me that the OP lumps the bike stuff (as 'his') together with 'his' speakers in the kitchen and 'his' decks in the living room. Where should those things be? Why not in those places? To me, it does feel a bit as if she thinks the house is hers and miscellaneous objects she doesn't personally like/use shouldn't be there.

Lovemypeaceandquiet · 08/06/2022 09:19

Omg that just came out completely wrong 🙄

It was meant to be something like this:
”Im sure there is a lot of relationship breakdown that has happened prior to the “shelf incident”. It was probably just the last straw.”

Its likely you were both unhappy for few years at least, and buying another house would bond you together for longer. He was probably just looking for an excuse for a big blow up and ending the relationship.

CaptSkippy · 08/06/2022 09:21

Innocenta · 08/06/2022 09:12

@CaptSkippy The misogynists can't keep away from threads where women are seeking actual help, it seems. Desperate to redirect the blame onto the woman. 🙄

I know. It's so disheartening. I see more and more of it these days. I come here to speak with other women (and maybe some men if they are polite) about living life. I am definitely a feminist, but I would not go into their spaces to try and change their minds. I do not go over there to call them liars and blame them for all their misfortunes.

Why can't they just leave women alone?

Gettingthingsdone777 · 08/06/2022 09:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

In theory I could maybe agree with you @Oscarthedog, I like many other naive women heard about men’s rights activism and initially thought “well good for them! Fighting against harmful male stereotypes, highlighting the disproportionately high rates of suicide among men, challenging male circumcision practices, hurrah!”.

In reality though- this is not the shape and flavour of the current MRA movement, if you ever visit one of their websites or forums you are met with an near endless parade of hatred for women, calling them all “wh*res, manipulators, narcissists”. Quite a lot of rape and murder fantasies on there too. The most prominent subsections of their community include Incels (responsible for more than one terrorist attack/mass shooting against women e.g. Elliott Rogers), pick up artists (most famous one of these Roosh V is best known for saying rape should be legalised), far right “traditionalists” (e.g. Nick Fuentes who believes that women should not have the vote and should be confined to home-making as an occupation, oh and they shouldn’t be educated either). This is just a handful of examples, not even the worst ones.

Even the most acceptable public faces associated with this movement have some shocking views on women (that does ironically seem to be their main focus). Take Jordan Peterson, he’s publicly floated the idea of “enforced monogamy” to remedy the pain of incels. The more casual, nominally liberal, members of the manosphere like Joe Rogan say things like “I think of women who don’t like children the same way I think of dogs who eat their own shit”- Rogan has also been accused by friends of being a misogynist privately of being angry and verbally abusive towards strippers (as per Howard Stern- not exactly a feminist himself).

I think the most ardent anti-feminist would have to admit that the rise in feminism has not led to acts of terrorism by women against men, nor has it led to a move to suppress men’s rights (no feminist group is trying with withdraw the vote from men that I’ve heard of). The rhetoric may sometimes feel a bit rough to men, but most of the reforms feminists have fought for and won have also benefited males to a large degree too. Better legislation around domestic violence protects boys from violence as well as women and girls for example. Better rights for women who leave a marriage also typically benefits children more financially. Weakening of mandatory gender roles has benefited men who don’t fit into the stereotypical roles for men formerly prescribed by society. Increased pay for women and more women in the work place has increased prosperity for families and society as a whole.

So men fighting for better rights for men in society shouldn’t be a bad thing at all, I agree, but at the moment it mostly really is. I think we all look forward to the day that an MRA movement focuses on the harrowing issues around men’s violence against men, male prison rape and violence norms, exploitation of young men through targeted recruitment to the military, and bodily autonomy issues such as consent to male circumcision.

You might enjoy the work of Pop Culture Detective, he has some interesting takes around some of these issues

CaptSkippy · 08/06/2022 09:22

Innocenta · 08/06/2022 09:13

@CaptSkippy It's heartening to see your posts.

I am glad you are getting something out of it. I have periods in my life where I remain quiet and just focus on my own life. That's what I prefer, but under the circumtances I feel like I have no choice but to go into fight-back mode, because otherwise I won't have a life left.

SantiMakesMeLaugh · 08/06/2022 09:27

SarahAndQuack · 08/06/2022 09:03

@mathanxiety, I don't think you noticed that she says 'my house'. She also says she'd asked for a door to be put on this shelf but it 'hadn't happened'. (Why? She hadn't done it? He hadn't agreed? She thinks it's his job?).

That all puts quite a different spin on the theory of him marking territory (though I do see why you're suggesting that).

It could be he's an abusive dick; it could equally be that they both argue about the house and really need to communicate a bit.

Well from personal experience…

  • ask previous dp to put a door = not happening. It’s not my idea, it will make slightly harder for me to get my stuff and it’s my house after all so I’m not going to do it. Plus I dont like when Santi tells me to do stuff. She is just nagging me.
  • I put the door myself instead. You are not doing things right, you don’t know how to do DIY and I don’t like what you’ve done. Cue for lots of grumbling and unhappiness.
  • and anyway why is she telling me where to put my stuff? I’ll do whatever I want. It’s my house and I can’t see the issue. It’s much easier for me anyway. Plus if she has an issue with it, she should be doing something about it (never mind it’s going against the first two points).
So not even an issue with ‘marking his territory’ but simply just wanting things his way Wo a thought for other people in the house added to an attitude that I wasn’t allowed a voice (aka my own opinion).

So yes the door just didn’t happen…. (And yes we did have a o convo like this. I found that space under the stairs has always lent itself to ‘discussion’ on what to do with it….).

But not because somehow I couldn’t be arsed to do it or because I thought it was his job….

AintNoPartyLikeANumber10Party · 08/06/2022 09:31

dumdumduuuummmmm · 08/06/2022 07:56

But you don't KNOW if the OP is abusive or not do you. All we have is the OPs version and her version includes clues that the possibility of her being abusive is real. You can't assert that the OP isn't abusive anymore than assert that the partner is. We have one version of events and that version has indicators of potential controlling behaviour demonstrated by the OP. That's all we KNOW. Everything else is conjecture

Well on this basis we don’t know anything. Maybe op is a writer presenting a plot idea? Maybe this is a reverse? Maybe op is an alien from another planet testing out human reactions?🤨

it’s tedious to suggest posters are liars - I’ve seen it on a few threads recently. @dumdumduuuummmmm if you don’t believe the op is in good faith, just leave the thread.

@Superness your partner’s reaction sounds disproportionately angry. If this is a one-off and you think you can discuss a future together (and you want to) I’d give him one chance to explain. Otherwise I’d start looking at how to separate with as much calm as possible.

SantiMakesMeLaugh · 08/06/2022 09:31

CaptSkippy · 08/06/2022 09:21

I know. It's so disheartening. I see more and more of it these days. I come here to speak with other women (and maybe some men if they are polite) about living life. I am definitely a feminist, but I would not go into their spaces to try and change their minds. I do not go over there to call them liars and blame them for all their misfortunes.

Why can't they just leave women alone?

Because women coming together is a threat.

I have been here for a looong time. The difference in attitude and posts are quite amazing. Women are more vocal about not being acted like crap and they are supporting each other in doing so.
Nearly 20 years ago when this site started, it wasn’t like this.

Its all down to the fact that when people loose their privileges and are treated as equal instead, it feels like abuse and not being treated right. So of course men want/need to comme over and to us how hard it is for them….