Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

[Lillonely]

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

it is because I think they lined up a few jobs, one was in an Asian corner shop where the owners spoke her language and the vast majority of customers were Asian, there was a cleaning role through an agency which had roles for bame women and spoke the language both of these were walking distance and then there was a role in a factory which was a 5 min bus ride away and there were many other Asian women who worked their too to help with language.
this is all before my time but she refuse to all, so obviously they cut her claim and then she wouldn’t go to classes to learn English so it was a no win.

But I don’t really even want her to work, I’m not fussed it’s just to be a bit reasonable. one breath is bad mouthing me to the world because I’ve not had another baby yet (youngest is 3) and then the other is sell your home and pay for me

For Pete's sake, OP, I really feel for you and your DH. So this lazy f....r doesn't know how to catch a bus (!). Just take her to the bus stop and put her on the bus to the job centre. She is not even of retirement age, so there is no reason why she cannot work and get herself around. I really get that your DH has been brainwashed into taking it all on, and he has done more than enough, so maybe you can sit down with her and spell it out that your DH has to prioritise you and your DC financially and otherwise, and he won't be doing everything for her from now on. It is tough that this is not what she grew up to expect, but she has been in a different country for a long time now and needs to adjust her expectations. Tell her that she needs to take responsibility for her life and her money. You will be the bad guy forever, but you probably are already, so who cares?

Get help and resources to support her by all means, but you and DH need to back off and look after yourselves and your DC. In many ways it sounds as though she is emotionally needy and manipulative, but that is not a good reason for either of you to pander to her. As others have suggested, your DH would benefit from counselling to help him detach from the brainwashing and emotional manipulations. Much good luck.

I’d just stop worrying about it. I’m not sure why you think a 60 year old is about to kick the bucket??? His life expectancy is about 20 years now. By that time your children will be grown and you will have paid off your mortgage. Relax. She’s annoying, but nothing is urgent

I cant believe some of the responses to you OP on here, in any other sphere of life posters quite rightly reject archaic, damaging nonsensical expectations and traditions which damage lives, particularly womens lives and those of their children.

But here, OP is being accused of being materialistic, knowing what she got herself into, putting her husbands standing at risk if she pushes to much against the mother in law, all manner of nonsense
I dont know what the answer is but the positives are

• mother in law is a home owner and likely can claim pension credit once she gets to retirement age no matter that she might not have enough NI paid


• mother in law has the right to claim benefits as she already did some time ago


• mother in law is legally married to the father in law and so jointly owns the part of the house that he partly owns that he lives in


• OP's husband can have a consultation with a solicitor about the legality of the father's will and whether it provides for his mother seeing that she is a dependent on him (the father in law)


• OP's husband can also make clear to his father that he better not leave his mother without provision in the will or he will ensure that after his death, he will challenge this legally and that will ruin his social standing and hope that has some leverage

Weird that you think FIL should provide for a woman he hasn’t lived with for decades. You seem to be fairly selective about when “archaic, damaging nonsensical expectations and traditions” should be adhered to.

Try reading what I wrote rather than just being sneery

I havent said father in law should provide for the mother in law right now, but as with any wife/dependent, she should be provided for within the will, she is married to him and had his child. Thats what needs checking when he dies.

He’s received a diagnosis of a progressive illness lately that’s why so thrrr is some substance there

Can she not equity release the house she owns to release income?

It as an option, would like to keep it as a last resort but it’s there

I think it should be a very very last resort because once the equity runs out, she wont have anything to fall back on

This is exactly it

Ok so it has come to light now that FIL has passed on his small business that he owned with wife #2 so will stop paying any expenses towards MIL. We literally can’t pay an additional £500 at the stop of a hat for her right now.

she’s not at retirement age so can’t get the pension credit yet. What started out as being worried for the future has just changed to being an immediate concern. Both dH and I don’t know what to do as we physically can’t pay for her right now

Your Dh needs to speak to your fil’s imam who should remind him of his obligations to your mil. If your fil pre-deceases your mil, she has a good case to claim the assets left due to the marriage being legal. Your Dh must do a hell of a lot for her as she doesn’t speak English-has he basically just done everything for her since he was 16? Would he consider withdrawing a little so she’s forced to help herself, even tiny things?

In your position, I would ringfence your finances so your Dh can’t just withdraw what he wants, you need to protect your house/children as the top priority, they need to have safe housing.

Op, are the facts that you said earlier in the thread that your mil lacks capacity in anyway connected to her being unable to child mind?

You haven't explained what you meant by lack of capacity so if I may try and piece together crucial information, is the fact that she has suffered brain damage in her past perhaps due to the abuse she received over her early life that resulted in her being forced to marry a man who did not love her purely to get a son?

Perhaps her family were wealthy and fil saw it made sense to to marry her to get her family assets?

Of course I am speculating but the fact that your DH does not seem to have a brain impairment and your mil perhaps does, ( possible car crash if not abuse?) which means she cannot be left responsible for your DC or learn a language easily or go on public transport without support makes her a vulnerable adult with care and support needs.

If this is the case I suggest you contact your local adult social services and request a Care Act assessment to find out what her care needs are.

To me there seems to be a lot going on here and she could be experiencing financial abuse if she does not have the money to live.

Request an urgent Care Act assessment and say that you are unable to properly financially cater for her given your own family position.

Let them know what Fil has done or what he is proposing and Google local authority Safeguarding concern and write down everything as fully as you can.

Local Authorities disregard the house she is living in, in looking at her assets.

The stress on your family will be reduced if you raised a safeguarding concern because then your fil will have to produce all his accounts and he will be legally obliged to work with them.

Your local authority can arrange Money Management to look after her money which will protect her until she dies taking off the stress on you.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain following this path assuming she lacks capacity.

Good luck op

No, I’ve not said she lacks capacity In the mental sense.

she can’t child mind because of an incident that occurred with an extended family members child, a safe guarding incident. Can’t say any more because it’s too outing.

Yes I have explained because I didn’t say she lacks capacity, she doesn’t lack capacity In the mental health act sense, she just doesn’t have the language, education or skills. She can’t read or write so she needs someone to read and translate all documents and tell her what to do. She has a chaperone and translator for all medical appointments. She doesn’t lack capacity she just lacks these skills.

her family were poorer than his. They were promised to each other as children, to pay off debt or something.

she definitely has been abused financially for sure, there were times they just had boiled rice to eat for days as FIL hadn’t given them a penny for weeks.

again she doesn’t lack capacity but I’d definitely say she’s a vulnerable adult

Even before, as a child I mean like 10/11 he had to accompany her to the dentist, drs and all of that, at 16 he got the financial responsibility too.

ive said that to dh he needs to speak to the imam because it’s a dire situation now

thanks for your advice! :)

I think that your MIL could actually claim maintenance from FIL by applying to court. It seems to be unusual but technically you can claim if you're separated. Whether he's worth pursuing is another matter. He's already reducing income stream.
If MILs house is owned jointly by her and your husband then I would be looking for your husband's share in it to be increased in exchange for subsidising her.You should be able to protect money paid to her from being used for care home fees . I suggest you take legal advice on both points.
I think you need to channel 2nd Wife's attitude in how you deal with this and protect your own & children's interests. DOn't let your husband step in to further fund MIL. You can be just as difficult as 2nd Wife.

There are lots of reasons people can’t manage their own affairs and allow someone to do that for them. Your mil could give your dh power of attorney (financial) and he could then advocate for her and make decisions on her behalf. She can do this BECAUSE she can understand and decide. It will also mean she doesn’t have to be the one to claim her share of anything from the will (if that becomes an issue). I think this is a kindness her son could do for her. If you try to force her to engage with the dwp etc by withdrawing support you will shame her in front of everyone. You know how much her son does for her will be a source of pride and may go a long way to easing the pain of the very public desertion by FIL.

To be clear in my religion you can have more than 1, so even if UK law doesn’t perceive them as legally married it’s how they view the relationship if that makes sense. There are also religious obligations In terms of what a husband must do, all of which FIL has not done

What they perceive is irrelevant.

To put this very bluntly, it doesn't matter what the religion says about legal marriage. It doesn't matter that they are living in accord with what is allowed by their religion.

They live in Britain. For legal purposes, only the original marriage is considered by the courts of Britain to be legal marriage. In Britain you can only be married to one person at a time. The woman FIL married first is his wife. The second woman is his girlfriend/mistress. The relationship has NO legal standing, and legal standing is what matters here, not what the religion counts as marriage.

Even if MIL were to die tomorrow, the mistress/girlfriend and FIL would have to get legally married if she were to be considered his wife from then on. She is currently NOT his wife and cannot be as long as MIL and FIL are married/both alive. British law on marriage is very clear.

You should speak to a solicitor who can explain that there is a difference between religious law and civil law, which is the law of the land, and the only relevant law where marriage and inheritance are concerned. The laws of various religions are irrelevant. They are not the law of the land.

A will can be contested if a man leaves his estate to someone other than his wife (in this case MIL is his wife).

Stepping back, your FIL is financially abusing his wife and has done so for years.

I would contact an abuse charity and her bank to let them know that she is being financially abused. If you/they can work out who he banks with then you know which bank needs to be stopping hin using them to commit a crime.

Yes the op and other posters are clear on that.

However you can still own assets with another woman which go to get on death (like a joint house)

And if wife is left out of will, you can make a claim as a dependent but it's expensive, needs wifi to agree to do it and if husband has all assets held jointly with girlfriend, there may not be anything to share.

Divorce is probably a better way to get assets but needs wife to start that. Also the courts. May say that she has refused to work or learn English and not grant her much. Spouse maintenance is rare. And she got a house from him.

For all those saying to claim benefits

how can this legally married woman who isn’t separated from her husband or going to separate - claim benefit?

legally the wife as a dependant can contest the will and is likely to succeed. The husband can’t just deprive the wife of assets on his death Explination here

Salam OP, this is a very difficult situation for you all to be in. May Allah swt reward your husband (and you!) for his concern over his mother. I know it's a big step, but would your DH take these issues to the Shariah Council? It's not legally enforceable obviously, but it might shame him into setting things right. He is a big sinner for what he has done, and the cutting your DH and MIL out of the will is completely haram.
I'd definitely be going down the SS route, classifying DMIL as a vulnerable adult, but your DH has to be completely on board with that.

She is going to have to claim benefits then, a really firm talking to by your husband is needed.

I’m not dumb I know this. We all know this. I don’t need a solicitor to explain this to me. Fgs

wife #2/ the other woman/ mistress or whatever you want to call her is listed on ALL other assets and has stealthily been moving everything into her name to basically abound a challenge to the will or the splitting of assets post divorce. THIS Is the issue with her that she has control over all assets other than the house that MIL lives in, and let me tell you it was a battle to get that in her name.