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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

339 replies

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:17

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

OP posts:
woodhill · 05/06/2022 14:43

If she had egged my car I wouldn't feel like wanting to help her either

What an awful situation for you OP

chunkymandarincoulis · 05/06/2022 14:43

Your poor MIL.

What she must have suffered all these years.

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 14:51

woodhill · 05/06/2022 14:43

If she had egged my car I wouldn't feel like wanting to help her either

What an awful situation for you OP

Yeah it was pretty degrading I can’t lie but it’s truthfully not a case of not wanting to, it’s a case of not really being able to and my children continuing to have hobbies and me saving for my retirement. It’s all well and good one d’Head poster saying ‘think of her as your 4th child’ ‘go get a promotion’ but I can’t afford to have a 4th child or I would. I want a promotion but I’ve got to work my butt off for one, and it seems wrong and woefully unfair that I’ll do all of that and then see 0 benefit from it. Let’s be honest promotions are maybe a 5k increase and a lot of that is eaten in tax so it’s maybe £200 extra at the end of the month.

our cost of living has risen: childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day. That’s around £400 a month
energy is £200 a month more now, in the summer, god only knows what it will be like in the winter
our mortgage when we re fix looks like it’s an extra £200 a month (6 months time)
our protection policies have increased, these are a must along side a mortgage before anyon suggests to bin them off.
then there’s fuel, commuting costs, food and then the fact inflation is eroding the cash value of our salaries.
if we paid for her to live we’d literally be living paycheque to paycheque.

her solution was we sell our house and try to get a council flat… again woefully unfair and won’t work in practice

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 14:53

chunkymandarincoulis · 05/06/2022 14:43

Your poor MIL.

What she must have suffered all these years.

Yeah FIL really devastated so many lives but I do believe it was DH who really really suffered the most here. I think about that poor boy and my heart really breaks, I can’t believe no teacher or community member did anything flagged any concerns.

OP posts:
woodhill · 05/06/2022 14:55

Council flat - Why would you want to sell your lovely house, that wouldn't work anyway

Concentrate on your dc. Hasn't your dh done enough for her

How old is she?

KettrickenSmiled · 05/06/2022 14:59

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:23

Even if he actively wills his estate to other people? I wasn’t sure they’d be a legal leg to stand on

If she is his legal wife in UK law, he cannot Will marital money away without her consent.

Unfortunately, she needs legal advice, & I bet she won't put her hand in her own pocket - she'll look to her son. I would put DH onto Citizen's Advice Bureau initially, to find out what can be done to force DH to make50% of the assets of the marriage available to her.

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 15:00

woodhill · 05/06/2022 14:55

Council flat - Why would you want to sell your lovely house, that wouldn't work anyway

Concentrate on your dc. Hasn't your dh done enough for her

How old is she?

To use the equity to look after her basically.

shes 15 years younger than my parents, think she’s early 60s

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 15:02

KettrickenSmiled · 05/06/2022 14:59

If she is his legal wife in UK law, he cannot Will marital money away without her consent.

Unfortunately, she needs legal advice, & I bet she won't put her hand in her own pocket - she'll look to her son. I would put DH onto Citizen's Advice Bureau initially, to find out what can be done to force DH to make50% of the assets of the marriage available to her.

We’ll be doing this, contacting a solicitor, a friend of DH is one so he won’t charge full whack, we’ll have to pay, but I’m fine with that.

she’s said she’d chose FIL of her son (DH) every time and would rather DH lose his home than ever make FIL cross with her. This to an extent is a cultural attitude and shows how much of a bully FIL is but I can’t wrap my head around it

OP posts:
5zeds · 05/06/2022 15:23

What on Earth does she do all day?

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 15:54

5zeds · 05/06/2022 15:23

What on Earth does she do all day?

Not sure, see Friends, go mosque class, pray, cook, nap, tidy up, watch tele, go on days out. Classic days off things I imagine.

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 15:55

5zeds · 05/06/2022 15:23

What on Earth does she do all day?

Not sure, see Friends, go mosque class, pray, cook, nap, tidy up, watch tele, go on days out. Classic days off things I imagine.

OP posts:
DogsAndGin · 05/06/2022 16:01

Yes it is bigamy. It doesn’t have to be a ‘legal’ ceremony to count as bigamy. So the second wife is not a wife at all as the ‘marriage’ is nullified.

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 16:07

DogsAndGin · 05/06/2022 16:01

Yes it is bigamy. It doesn’t have to be a ‘legal’ ceremony to count as bigamy. So the second wife is not a wife at all as the ‘marriage’ is nullified.

You’re missing the point. That’s moot. She lives as his wife, she’s accepted as his wife and The marriage Isn’t islamically void. Legally if FIL and SMIL split she’s not entitled to anything that’s not in her name and if he died intestate she wouldn’t get anything but she’s named in his will

OP posts:
HotPenguin · 05/06/2022 16:25

Does your FIL have a pension? If so she may be entitled to money from that after he dies.

mumsys · 05/06/2022 16:44

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 16:49

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

He wasn’t upfront about the fact she would have no pension, that I didn’t know. I meant he was upfront about his debts.most Asian family’s (mine included) i know if the mother hasn’t worked, the dad would leave his cash to mum. They’d also both have pensions, any surplus would be picked up by kids. I’m fine with that:

the fact is due to all the currrnt rises we can’t afford the additional £500pcm. So you’re telling me you’d stop saving for your own retirement, pull your children out of clubs and potentially sell your own home to look after her?

OP posts:
woodhill · 05/06/2022 17:23

Some of it is of her own making

She doesn't have to go on a pilgrimage, she could have been more proactive about working after your dh became an adult rather than exploiting her own ds when he was a teenager as you described

She could get legal,advice and sort out the mess herself not involve you and sponge off you

Vijia · 05/06/2022 17:25

Yes because that is the religion and culture you willingly married in to.

She is lucky that she has her home as this gives her financial assets in her own name.

No I am not a troll, that's a bemusing comment as I have been on here for more than 15 years in different guises.

Everything I have written you should read without spite and venom because that is not helping you or your family.

You are placing the blame on someone who doesn't even speak the language here and the fact she hasn't means that something more is going on there.

You are alienating your own community by not supporting your DH to do the best by his mum.

He wasn't truthful with you op and your anger and resentment would be best placed on your DH and the FIL rather than someone who's only lifeline is her son.

The sooner you swallow the bile and stop seeing everything in terms of materialistic goals the better.

You have a moral and ethical duty to help your DH help his mother and I am sorry if he was not upfront about this.

If there is no mortgage on the home you might be able to release equity, have you explored this?

Basilbrushgotfat · 05/06/2022 17:31

@Lillonely stay strong.

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 17:44

Vijia · 05/06/2022 17:25

Yes because that is the religion and culture you willingly married in to.

She is lucky that she has her home as this gives her financial assets in her own name.

No I am not a troll, that's a bemusing comment as I have been on here for more than 15 years in different guises.

Everything I have written you should read without spite and venom because that is not helping you or your family.

You are placing the blame on someone who doesn't even speak the language here and the fact she hasn't means that something more is going on there.

You are alienating your own community by not supporting your DH to do the best by his mum.

He wasn't truthful with you op and your anger and resentment would be best placed on your DH and the FIL rather than someone who's only lifeline is her son.

The sooner you swallow the bile and stop seeing everything in terms of materialistic goals the better.

You have a moral and ethical duty to help your DH help his mother and I am sorry if he was not upfront about this.

If there is no mortgage on the home you might be able to release equity, have you explored this?

I’m Asian too (the wrong kind for them though) and im born Muslim so I didn’t marry into this I was born into it.

FIL is largely to blame and he’s actually whom I’m mad at not her of DH. FIL had always said MIL would be willed money so would be taken care of. But in many ways she could have done something to help herslef

im actually trying to find ways to get what she’s owed by him.

what about my parents huh? If they need help, sorry amu spent it all on my MIL.

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 17:46

Also what materialistic goals are you on about? To have a roof over my head?

OP posts:
5zeds · 05/06/2022 17:46

So basically the immediate problem is that last month you could afford £500 and this month and going forward you can’t? Can she help with the childcare? Can you manage some money? Can FIL give more? Can she claim benefits as you can’t afford it any more to help your dh? Could she rent a room to another elderly lady? Or a young girl wanting to study somewhere suitable away from home?

could you rent her house and move her in with you for a year and then use the proceeds to fund her for a few years?
I get you don’t like the burden but presumably if dh has always supported her your lifestyle is based on your money after providing her £6k???

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 17:56

5zeds · 05/06/2022 17:46

So basically the immediate problem is that last month you could afford £500 and this month and going forward you can’t? Can she help with the childcare? Can you manage some money? Can FIL give more? Can she claim benefits as you can’t afford it any more to help your dh? Could she rent a room to another elderly lady? Or a young girl wanting to study somewhere suitable away from home?

could you rent her house and move her in with you for a year and then use the proceeds to fund her for a few years?
I get you don’t like the burden but presumably if dh has always supported her your lifestyle is based on your money after providing her £6k???

No FIL pays the vast majority right now, DH tops up a few £100s, we just can’t afford to take it all on if FIL passed away.
MIL for numerous reasons I can’ go into can’t be trusted with children and we’d have to drive to pick her up and drop her off which just won’t work.
we can manage to carry on as we are but not the additional £500 as it will take it to about £700 give or take.
she won’t claim benefits Because she doesn’t want to go to English classes or the job centre. They last time told her she was able to get work and she didn’t like this so stopped claiming.
for my mental health I can live with her, we also don’t have the room. 4 bed 3 kids and 2 share as is as we need a study for work.
lodger makes sense, she has an extra room.

OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 05/06/2022 18:03

"You’re in the UK, so FIL does not have two wives, he has a wife and a mistress."

However
english.alarabiya.net/articles/2008%2F02%2F05%2F45191#:~:text=Ministers%20have%20ruled%20that%20families,as%20in%20some%20Muslim%20countries.

MissConductUS · 05/06/2022 18:16

she won’t claim benefits Because she doesn’t want to go to English classes or the job centre. They last time told her she was able to get work and she didn’t like this so stopped claiming.

I think that this is just being passive-aggressive on her part, and OP I would find it infuriating too. Refusing to do anything to help herself, down to refusing to take the bus, is just rank manipulation. It's like a toddler holder her breath to get what she wants.