Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

[Lillonely]

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

I am surprised that a solicitor advised a will with no provision for a dependent.

I had a will done when I was living with a DP with whom I co-owned a house. I wanted all my assets to go to D.C. (as did Dp) and the solicitor was very emphatic about writing a clause explicitly stating that we were not dependent on each other and did not wish to make provision or leave anything.

I wonder if he used a solicitor to draw up his will, and if so, if he said he was married?

Does your DH have any relationship with the Imam your FIL talks with? Can he explain his worries about his father’s apparent refusal to make provision in his will and encourage the Imam to explain his religious obligations to his wife?

They all know and don’t care… honestly it’s a fucking scandal. It’s a scandal no one called social service. In that community it seems like all about looking the part

He has a joint will with SMIL… hell would freeze over before she let mil have a penny of anything, hence forcing a 16 year old to take care of his mother. It’s been done by a solicitor. I doubt he declared he was married to someone else though… maybe he’d have to I don’t know, either way no provisions have been made for MIL or DH

im the executor of my parents wills and they’ve left everything to each other too, i don’t benefit at all. So it does happen

Op you say your mil lacks capacity. This is huge. When was this Mental Capacity Act assessment taken? By whom? If she lacks capacity there is every reason to suspect she is incapable of taking the bus and being as independent as you would like her to be.

Your treatment and view of her is cruel and heartless if it's true that she genuinely lacks mental capacity.

I suggest you befriend your mil and make her life bearable and ask your DH how to approach this as a kind and caring family.

Read religious scriptures to help you.

*Your treatment and view of her is cruel and heartless if it's true that she genuinely lacks mental capacity.

I suggest you befriend your mil and make her life bearable and ask your DH how to approach this as a kind and caring family*

Hardly helpful.

@Lillonely you keep stating how impossible it would be to seek redress but you have zero confirmation of this.

I cannot reiterate this enough: you need to seek legal advice from a family law solicitor.

Only then will you know what is and isn't possible and I suspect you'll find you have many more options than you currently believe.

Seeking proper legal advice is also the best way to protect your children going forward.

im the executor of my parents wills and they’ve left everything to each other too, i don’t benefit at all. So it does happen

Yes, pretty common for couples to have ‘mirror wills’ because they usually assume that the survivor will have the decency to then leave the assets to their joint children.

The point is here that FIL has a wife who is dependent on him, easily prove able due to the payment of bills etc and her lack of work, pension etc. So any reputable solicitor would immediately recognise that the will was subject to challenge because he has not left anything to MIL.

If your DH is part owner of the house she lives in, he could release equity from it for her to live off?

Does MIL have a will leaving her house to your DH, or does your DH own the house with her as joint tenants rather than tenants in common? Because if neither of these, he could face the additional nightmare of her dying first and FIL inheriting as Next if Kin!

Dreadful situation all round. Your DH is not responsible for the horrible behaviour of his father, but I can see why he feels loyalty to his mother.

She could well be entitled to pension credit, but if she and / or your DH GET equity release from the house this would stop if the cash / income was in her name. So it would be best for your DH to do it. But only if his inheritance if the remainder of the property is secure! (Give or take care home fees….).

Honestly fuck off. I’ve not said she lacks mental capacity, she’s not been educated but she doesn’t lack capacity.

how exactly is my treatment cruel? How? Because I’m working to pay my mortgage and pay my bills and provide for my children and I don’t want to see my home to pay for her to live and render my children homeless ? Yeah you’re right I’m god damn evil. Moron

‘Lacks capacity’ can mean all sorts of capacity, not just mental. I lack capacity in all sorts of areas. The OP’s MIL lacks capacity in language, experience, etc.

She is not my responsibility and islamically I owe my in-laws nothing. I’ve paid bills on her house when DH didn’t have a pot to pee in and they were getting bailiff letters. The woman over the past decade has actually been immeasurably cruel to me, suggesting DH marry again and take a second wife, ostracisating me from the wider community, ive had my car egged. I’m not going into further detail because it’s not actually the point of the thread I suggest you @Vijia read some religious scriptures, it’s is the responsibility of the husband to provide for his wife not the daughter in law.

It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal Just on a point of accuracy, in bigamy in this country only one marriage is ever legal. You cannot be legally married to two people. The second marriage is never legal. This is why it is so disastrous for women who find out their 'H' is still married to someone else. They suddenly have not legal claim on any of the marital assets/ finances that are not in their name. No divorce settlement, share of pensions/ financial assets. Nothing. Because the marriage was never legal.

Great point about the house, I’m not sure! I’d not even thought about that, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I think if she can claim pension credit then it’s all ok, it’s more money than she gets now covering bills and living expenses. That will be ample.

yeah he could do equity release but tbh not sure if we’d need it for care bills if the time came, who knows what the care sector will be like then, I mean it’s dire now.

The challenge to the will, even if she’s got a legal leg to stand on she wouldn’t do it, and I doubt dh would either, even if the cost wasn’t a factor, it’s the fall out from the community. But the thought of it might be enough to make FIL gift some money to her prior. I do feel she is owed that much from him at least, given the fact he’s basically ruined her life.

but fine print aside, my point was no crime as such has occurred because he’s not attempted to register the second marriage.

Well you can't do anything OP. Its your H's call and his mother and I think you probably need to accept that he will financially support, and you will need to accept that cost. You are lucky that you are extremely well off and can afford this, even if you don't want to.

If she claimed child benefit she will have built up NI insurance and she will get some benefits even if not a state pension. She won't have nothing.

Your MIL should speak to a solicitor about what she is entitled to once her H dies, yes you may have to pay for this.

MIL may be an unpleasant person but she has had a shit life and been treated like shit and that does tend to make people unpleasant. Its not surprising she is insisting your H support her as she has no means to support herself. She is in a horrible, vulnerable situation, and insisting on her cultural 'right' to be supported by your H is the only option she feels she can claim with any dignity or self-respect.

You’re right except for the fact we actually can t afford an additional £500+ per month not as things stand as I’ve said in my op

I know loads of versions of this story, some from friends, and others in the community. I'd love to be able to advise you of a solution, but in my experience they never end well for anyone. So I really can't suggest anything other than that you protect yourself and your children. Your husband can't or won't do what is necessary - the familial and community customs are too strong for him to reject them (although he should, but that's not realistic because he won't). That means, I'm afraid, that he will not protect his own, your or his children's interests above those of his mother. So you must. Sometimes, being selfish is the only thing you can do. This is one of them.

Has the father worked/paid his NI? If so she will be able to get a widow's bereavement allowance (think that's what it's called.) I think she would get a lump sum of £2.5k plus £100 a week for 18 months. If they are in their 60s would that take her close to pension age? I know rules have changed in recent years but I think she can probably still make a claim for a pension based on his NI. That might be a path to other benefits.

I hope you work something out, your husband sounds like a great man to have done all that to support his mother.

This is it right here! All of this

I have obviously hit a raw nerve of yours to be asking you to be kind to your mil and you say your car has been egged, is this by her?

You sound lacking in compassion which is not helping anyone and probably making your dh's life harder.

This is it right here! All of this

The issue of capacity is relevant, as some people have suggested getting a PoA for financial affairs- first she would have to agree and sign this, and second, you cannot use a PoA for someone else unless they lack capacity! You can't just take over someone else's finances and run them if you think they are doing it wrong.

I agree about taking legal advice on where you all stand, but I do think that worrying about the inheritance of a man who may live another 20 years is probably premature, it may be eaten up by care bills as I said before.

Yes it was by her and her friends in the community.

youre obviously a troll because your comments are ridiculous as you seem to think catching a bus is tantamount to abuse. She happily lives alone, goes shopping, on day trips, mosque, coffee shops with friends yet it is too much to go to a job centre and a few classes a week.., come off it.. that’s not cruelty.

I’m civil to her and i actually do have her Interests at heart here as she is owed something by fil at least but my kids come first

I know loads of versions of this story, some from friends, and others in the community. I'd love to be able to advise you of a solution, but in my experience they never end well for anyone
Nonsense. All round the world children care for their parents.

She doesn’t lack mental capacity in the POA sense, this is not an option. However she does need support to function in the UK due to lack to language skills, education and financial experience.

its v unlikely that FIL will be around the next 20 years there are a few incidents that have happened and he’s very much preparing for ‘the end’ he’s basically getting his ducks in a row (in someways he’s being very dramatic as he has no terminal diagnosis or even a life threatening condition but is what it is) not going into specific as it’s very outing. Care bills though is a valid point. Utopia here I guess would be for him to gift her a Chunk of money before that, I think dh needs to have a convo and say if MIL is left out of the will he’ll contest and that will show the community how badly he neglected them over the years, and drag his name through the mud. This might hold some sway.

Yes, but most parents would expect their children to beggar themselves for them. Mine certainly wouldn’t and I’d never expect that of mine.

i think this posters comment was referring to the whole first wife v second wife situation. I too have never ever seen a scenario in which all parties are happy and not mistreated.