Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

[Lillonely]

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

It was nearly a decade ago now and was because she wanted me to live with her and I reminded her of my Islamic rights and I wouldn’t be called names, she slapped me on the arm and went to slap my face and I told her try it I’ll call the police and press charges

Stay married - wait for him to die, sue for at least half of the estate.

Poor woman, that’s horrendous.

She sounds awful @Lillonely 🙁
I know you say FIL has a new diagnosis, but have you checked what impact it has on his life expectancy. I can imagine you feel squeezed from all sides with rising bills, childcare and now the spectre of MIL becoming even more of a drain. Try not to panic it’s a tightrope that few really understand. The need to protect your children, the need to help the mother of your dh, and the need to find a way for dh to be happy within whatever is decided. Awful as it is her belief in these patriarchal structures may help once FIL is gone as dh presumably then becomes head of the family?
The bottom line is she should be receiving benefits. She should be looking for work and once in place much of this will ease. I’m sorry it’s so hard. ☕️

The advice to talk to southall black sisters may be quite good. They have experience in helping with immigration status of women who have been abused as well. They can maybe also help with navigating financial aid.

I’m asian so I get the background but this is a horrendous situation. I really feel for your DH, he’s been neglected and trapped by his family.

She’s not pleasant but I guess it was how she was brought up, she was most likely the servant daughter in law, her in laws probably were abusive to her too, and she thought it’s ok when my son gets married my daughter in law will cook and clean up after me and do what I’ll say, I’ll get my time etc. It’s wrong but if it’s all you know, it’s like the circle of life, you get abused, pay your dues and then get your own daughter in law/ servant and the cycle continues.

he’s got a chronic illness but it’s not in itself life like lupus so it impacts your life but it’s not in itself life threatening but his actions he’s very much taken on the role of the dying man.

the concern now, which has shifted from the OP, is how he’s sold his business, SMIL has taken all the equity and now he has no income stream to pay MILs expenses and we literally can’t either in light of all the rises

OP I’ve read this whole thread with absolute disbelief. What a shitstorm.

what does your husband think is the way forward ? Is he pushing for you to agree to give up a lot of stuff for you and your children in order to support his mum ?
or does he feel the same way as you , that he really won’t tolerate having to do that ?

is this situation causing problems between the two of you ?

I hope your husband is lovely because his whole family just sound like terrible people hiding behind some distorted view of their culture .

more than anything I really can’t get my head around your MIL not ever getting a job. Loads of women are dealt a shitty hand by shitty men , and are abandoned but most overcome their cultural norms and expectations, and drag themselves out to work so their child can eat proper food and not have to wear dirty holey clothes. My heart breaks for the wee boy your husband was.

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OP I’ve read this whole thread with absolute disbelief. What a shitstorm.

what does your husband think is the way forward ? Is he pushing for you to agree to give up a lot of stuff for you and your children in order to support his mum ?
or does he feel the same way as you , that he really won’t tolerate having to do that ?

is this situation causing problems between the two of you ?

I hope your husband is lovely because his whole family just sound like terrible people hiding behind some distorted view of their culture .

more than anything I really can’t get my head around your MIL not ever getting a job. Loads of women are dealt a shitty hand by shitty men , and are abandoned but most overcome their cultural norms and expectations, and drag themselves out to work so their child can eat proper food and not have to wear dirty holey clothes. My heart breaks for the wee boy your husband was

The op's mil we have learnt did not have even as much as a primary education in her own country. No doubt she was put to domestic work from a very young age as we have been told she was from a poor family and promised to be married off as a child to a man organised by the families, she was given no say in the matter.

It doesn't take a lot of piecing together the facts to see that she was treated appallingly and has never had any kindness shown to her by anyone in her family.

It very much sounds as if she has undiagnosed learning difficulties and so instead of berating and blaming the woman about not having more agency, the questioning for answers and solutions should be more about asking why, what has happened, what are the obstacles.

Why give someone a virtual lynching when it's quite clear there are things that do not add up. Most people when given the chance to learn new things to improve their lot do so, the fact that she has not, may be it's not laziness, may be it's learning difficulties.

Please do not underestimate how many women who have very low iq through first cousin marriages are married off.

There is a huge problem of consanguinity which the op has alluded to in this culture and it is not fair to blame the victims of this.

It is a cultural norm for women who marry into a wealthier family become the domestic servers/ slaves of other women with higher status. Mother in law status automatically confers higher status than a wife of a son and the eldest son's wife will have more status than the youngest son's wife.

I think we need to put it all into perspective.

Op I genuinely believe raising a safeguarding concern with your local authority will signpost you to the help your mil will need as they work interagency across all the charities and organisations in your area.

This won't be an isolated incident and they will be sensitive to the cultural needs of the family. It is a free service and they will be able to get you legal advice if you approach them first.

Mention financial abuse when you fill out the online form.

They will have a duty under the Care Act 2014 to investigate and this might be the impetus your fil needs to do something right by her and prove himself to be an upstanding member of the community.

It is completely confidential. He will never know the referral came from you.

Mention possible learning difficulties. The local authority have a duty of care to help her regardless of immigration status ( that fact is not often publicised).

Good luck.

www.manchesterappp.co.uk/adult-safeguarding/<a class="break-all" href="https://go.skimresources.com/?id=470X756&isjs=1&jv=15.2.4-stackpath&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mumsnet.com%2Ftalk%2Frelationships%2F4562595-polygamy-first-family-and-financial-trouble-need-some-perspective-here%3Fpage%3D12%26reply%3D117728480&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manchesterappp.co.uk%2Fadult-safeguarding%2F&xs=1&xtz=-60&xuuid=7d16dea9010436a16de90ed813974fe2&xjsf=other_click__touchstart%20%5B%5D" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.manchesterappp.co.uk/adult-safeguarding/

This is good advice thank you! And all your points above are accurate. She has a v low IQ and obviously with no education at all no referrals or diagnoses could be given. She was working manual labour for her in laws (I doubt she was paid it would’ve been exchange for room and board) I can only assume that she was working for her parents too.
its also a different motivation for having children than what we typically see in the west, a) pure obligation and it’s better to have a son than a daughter and what’s better than one son, many. An additional reason why a son is preferred is that it’s a cultural norm that the sons wife will marry Into that family whereas their own daughter will marry out and often after marriage they’ll have v little to do with their daughter. It is then the expectation that the youngest sons wife is responsible for caring for her in laws . It’s one of the reason again for my egging that I don’t do this and I’ve pointed out its not an Islamic thing nor is it islamically encouraged to live all together.
there’s a term for it that escapes me it’s like second life or second innings, meaning that you’ll get abused now but then you’ll get to relax and rest and your DIL can become your servant.

so despite that @Vijia i believe and take my sincere apologies if I’m wrong, called me materialistic and awful for not wanting to sell my house to pay for MIL second innings,told me to get motivation to get a promotion to pay for her and some lovely things. I’m actually going to take your advice.

Was she doing the egging. What a childish and nasty thing to do.

It is hard to be useful without cultural knowledge. I really feel for you.

you should refer this person to a local charity specialising in any and all of the difficulties you have mentioned.

your other option is to cut her loose.

It ‘slipped out of her hand as she tripped over a stone’ is the officially story apparently… she just happened to have been shouting at me up the street and surrounded by a few other aunties jeering… what a funny coincidence right

I’m half Asian and half arab but without sounding like a twat, some of the issue is social class / education related and from the village/ area they are from back home as the Asian side of my family is nothing like this

OP,

You knowingly married into a shit show and why you did that is very strange.

You now have 3 children with a man whose first responsibility appears to be to his mother.

Neither of them appear prepared to take the action necessary to help them.

You cannot change this.

Your children that you have brought into this awful dynamic need protecting from your husbands family and the choices that he is prepared to make against their interests.

You need to protect your home and assets.

The suggestion to sell your childrens home is preposterous.

The suggestion you deprived your children of what they need to pay for your MIL is ridiculous.

Your FIL and his sordid life does not come ahead of your children.

Your husband and his mother may not want to seek to protect what they are entitled to, but you can resist them doing it at the cost to your children.

I would be looking at seperation to protect your children and your assets.

@billy1966 i did not know all of these facts prior to marriage actually. DH was v naive and assumed his parents had separated legally as they’d never been together in the martial sense in his entire life. I did know he was neglected though. We are very low contact with his family and I with his mum. He’s not low contact with his mum though.
i was told FIL would take care of MIL in the will.
prior to marriage I ensured FIL actually paid for MIL not my DH due to his debts he accrued.
DH family is ‘normal’ for him as normal is all relative, he didn’t even appreciate the level of consanguinity that happens nor how spiteful these people are to outsiders. We found that out later

I’m half Asian and half arab but without sounding like a twat, some of the issue is social class / education related and from the village/ area they are from back home as the Asian side of my family is nothing like this you don’t sound like a twat and I agree with you. It’s difficult because this demographic seem to often be presented as the common face of Islam in the uk and it is very far from my experience.

Honestly I’m sure your parents have walked the tightrope between cultures and could be of help. There is no shame in this, let them support you.

It would make sense for your husband to have Power of Attorney for his Mum. This doesn't mean that she has to lack capacity herself - my Mum chose to give PoA to myself and my sister and she has full mental capacity, she just finds it easier to let us deal with some matters for her. This means that any institutions, e.g. HMRC, benefits people, utilities etc, will allow your DH to manage his Mum's accounts for her. He will need registered copies of the PoA, as many companies ask for a copy in order to add him.
www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

There is a cost of £82 to register the PoA but it sounds like it would be worth this in order for your DH to be able to apply for benefits and assessments for his Mum. With this, he will be able to apply for Pension Credit, when this is relevant, and may be able to apply for other benefits in the meantime. It might well be that other benefits could come with the difficult conditions that your MIL refused to comply with previously, but the rules and how they are interpreted do change over time, so worth a go I would think.

I live in Manchester too and have been involved with helping other people in the community, so can understand some of the problems that your DH has had. I'm so sorry that he had such a difficult upbringing. You must be very proud of how well he has done despite his tricky start in life. I think you are both doing wonderfully to ensure that his Mum has some support. It's great that the house is in her name and that currently she is receiving some money from her husband. Feel free to PM me, if you would like me to try looking for other sources of help for this situation. I'm sure you've already looked but you never know another pair of eyes might be able to suggest some alternatives.

They’d go bezzerk, they do know but get v riled up about the situation but then they also equally dislike her because of how she’s treated me. Both sets of grandparents married who they wanted, paternal GM was a Christian so we’ve really not had anything like this in the family so it’s all v alien to us.

her even saying for us to sell the house to care for me, they’d go nuts and probably confront her

OP,
For him to be paying off so much debt 10 years later, means it must have huge.

I can only imagine how difficult this is, how stressful it is.

But you do not owe his mother your home and your childrens entitlement to activities.

Stop thinking of yourself as a team because you are not.

There is you and your children and your husband and his mother.

You need to protect yourself and your children.

It really Is that simple.

Your family sound much more the norm to me. His sound more Asian Jeremy Kyle. That said you’ve got to deal with it as they are half of your children. I personally would put a lot more physical distance between them and you. Do either of you have portable skills?