Miserable husband has his heart set on foreign move that isn’t realistic

[StripytopandJordans]

I think dh is depressed but he just seems to have accepted it and poo poos getting any help about it. We have had a really rough ten years with moving on from a history of childhood abuse (mine) and the family associated with it, and since we became parents he has just seemed joyless at times and overwhelmed with stress. I get it, and I took the brunt of it as it was my family we moved on from, but I do find things to be happy about and generally have a family jolly demeanour. He does not.

And then the other thing- a job has come up at his company in a glamorous location that he would love to do. However, the relocation package is total cack and realistically we wouldn’t be able to afford a comfortable life there. He however has his heart set on it and is saying that life here is utterly miserable and basically it’s this job or misery. He has very low self esteem and doesn’t believe he could get a job elsewhere (but he could). He is taking my rational thoughts about this job (what would we do about schooling, about the loss of my job etc) as me putting obstacles in the way.

He is often grumpy. Other times he can be hilarious and great fun, but when he is down he is very down and I just don’t know what to do. I feel like I don’t make him happy at all- in fact I’m sure of it.

Tbh the American health care system is preferable to being on the receiving end of the NHS for years and definitely cheaper as we always ended up going private otherwise both Dh and I would be dead now.

Agree but with some relocations the spouse cannot get a via to work at all.

The figures won’t stack up though @ShandaLear. I think he just needs to see that for himself.

Maybe he''' convince himself it adds up, even if he looks.

I couldn't be with a moody man, anyway. Had enough of that with my dad.

He has to ask himself why the company would even offer the job to someone not based in the US already? Either he has an in demand skill/experience that they can’t source there, in which case he is worth a better package and needs to negotiate, or the job is so crap and badly paid that no American will do it and they are banking on someone from the U.K. (like a single person) being willing to do it for the experience of living in the US. What rings alarm bells to me is that surely somebody operating at the sort of level to relocate internationally in a company (as opposed to, say, an economic migrant moving countries for a better life) would also have the intelligence to understand the financial reality. It does not stack up that he is considered capable of doing whatever this job is, yet not capable of doing the sums. Has he actually been offered this job, or has he just seen it on an internal vacancies ad or something?

Also, does this company really not offer healthcare to any of its US employees? That would be very unusual I think. Yet seems crazy to offer relocating employees less than locals.

I also remember your previous thread, OP, and it's pretty clear he's seeing this as an escape from all his issues rather than realistically
So I agree with PP about making vaguely positive noises but leaving him to do the research; he may come to realise it's not feasible himself, and then it won't be you who gets the blame for "spoiling things"

Unless of course he'd be willing to go with no real preparation or research, in which case I really would leave him to do it alone

This sounds like mine, he mentions things but he wants me to organise them. So if I don't fancy it I just do nothing and it doesn't happen. He can't complain because if he really wanted to do it he would sort it out.

Dh’s previous company had an in house jobs board and there were many jobs all around the world. If Dh wanted to get a job in Brazil or Estonia or Australia then he was free to apply and if they liked him and he needed a visa for his wife that would be offered as well as a commensurate salary and relocation package, healthcare and private schooling for any children.

They I think wanted to retain the staff they had

To be honest us healthcare if you have decent insurance is vastly superior to the NHS. Employers have to offer some health insurance so I am surprised you say there is none. Also crime levels and even gun laws vary hugely from state to state. It is generally a safe and reasonably pleasant country to live in.

I think he knows deep down that it’s not possible but is just worn down and sees it as an idyllic life so doesn’t want to let go.

I think if he had a less stressful life in general and we were doing nice holidays etc he would feel better anyway.

I would approach it a bit like this

Okay if I'm putting the obstacles there, rather then them simply existing, then you can tell me the solution, right?

What's the solution to the school situation?

What's the solution to me losing my job? What do you expect me to do? Will I be expected to contribute financially, or be a housewife?

Gather up all his answers and tell him you will then go and consider them.

Be methodical about it.

If you want high quality healthcare you move to continental Europe, not the US.

Practically no full-time corporate American job will not include healthcare. It's nearly always provided through the employer. Purchasing healthcare individually is exorbitantly expensive (plus all the copays and deductibles). It's crazy they are offering a job with no benefits. I've never heard of such a thing - only for low wage, part-time jobs usually (and where they intentionally keep staff below full-time because full-time staff are entitled to healthcare).
Depending on the state, you'll find that health insurance along will eat up most of his wage. You'll just have to sit and do the maths.
There are excellent state schools in the US, it's extremely variable. But well perofrming school district usually equals high rent, not just because of desirability but also property taxes which fund the public schools in that district.

No health insurance in the US?

No.

NONONONONONONONONO!

Don't even consider it - you have children. you know what kids are like for accidents, bugs etc

I know the NHS is bollox at the moment but at least it doesn't bankrupt us (yet),

And if he is depressed in himself, then after the first euphoric flush he would find himself in the same position, with less comfort, no support from friends and feeling a failure because things having worked out as he dreamed.

I do hope you can talk him out of it, otherwise see if he will go without you - perhaps ask his employers if they will consider a six month placement or something so he can test the waters?

My DH talks now and then about moving to Canada and 'we have to get out of this country', but I know it couldn't ever happen without me organising it, and I'm not going to do that. I'm sure it's lovely but we've never even visited, have no connections there and I have a mum in poor health who isn't going to live to a ripe old age, so it's not a goer for me. I know this country is shit, but short of actual, physical danger to the family I am not leaving everything and everyone I know!

I disagree. I emigrated and totally changed my life for the better, and most of the people I know that emigrated feel the same. Of course it doesn't suit everyone, but they tend to go back after a few years, But I'd say most people who move countries find it pretty transformative, otherwise why bother?

In this case though it looks like a terrible idea. Why move for a poorer quality of life?

I'd disagree. Even if you have insurance (and when I lived in the US I had excellent insurance), you still get endless bills coming through. It's inefficient and it's not integrated. Plus you never know if they are overly intervening to cover their asses against lawsuits rather than what's evidence based.
And you're comparing apples and oranges. Given what you have to pay in the US with premiums, copays and deductibles (and you also pay more taxes than in the UK for other people's healthcare such as medicaid, medicare, veteran's public hospitals), you're better off in the UK with the NHS and topping up with private healthcare for the deficiencies. You'll still be quids in at the end of the day.

I think your DH could have an anxiety problem not necessarily depression.
Has your DH ever considered anti-depressants? My DH was grumpy and disillusioned, continually disgruntled a work. About 6 weeks after starting the antiDs I heard him singing a song to himself in the kitchen. I'd never heard that before! That really struck me that he was so much 'lighter' in himself.
He's now much more flexible in his outlook. Things don't get 'terrible' within seconds like they used to. He also started therapy. Sometimes a person might need to start on antiDs before they can approach therapy.
Your DH needs to stop burdening you with his misery. I put up with it for years until I realised he only did it with me.
Tell him to tell a therapist that you have done all the listening you can and it hasn't helped so he needs to get professional help.
Don't engage with the content of his work issues like who said what to who. That just increases the volume of the 'misery'.
Instead interrupt him and talk about the context like 'I take it you are angry because you came in here and didn't say hello to me you started telling me about work' or 'I hear you are annoyed but could we talk about the car insurance for a minute'. I didn't notice that my DH's barrage of work complaints was like a battering ram that would scare me out of talking about my own stuff. Because his 'miserable life' had to be put on a pedestal and revered. It has turned out my DH had anxiety that caused him to use 'complaining' as a strategy to get love and attention from his caregiver (me!).

It does seem like he's seeing a move as a cure for all his woes which isn't particularly realistic. He could quote easily move you all over there and realise he still feels depressed and nothing has changed and then what?

We moved as a family to Italy. No jobs, no money, just determination and a loose plan. We are robust as a family, but bloody hell it tested us! We now earn very well compared to in the UK, have a lovely life here, but it was really very hard for a good few years. I'm not sure how we stuck it out honestly. And the US is brutal when it comes to work and cost of living.

But our experience isn’t topping up. It is living in agony for 7 years because the nhs won’t pay for an mri scan (or let me pay for it) they said it wasn’t needed and it was after years of living in constant agony that I realised what they were doing was just guesswork and not treatment.

or Dh going to the doctors for 6 months sometimes every 3 days to say things were not right and listing all the symptoms of bowel cancer and being told to not look at Dr Google as he was just frightening himself.
FIL had died from bowel cancer a few years earlier and Dh was experiencing similar symptoms.
Eventually when he couldn’t walk unaided I had to take him into A&E, the GP had already seen him twice that week and prescribed some stronger laxatives

The cancer had spread. To save him there was an operation but we weren’t in the right postcode so in the end we had to pay for his cancer treatment and operations.

The medical bills wiped out his pension and all our savings.

There are no top ups because you are assuming the NHS are doing the basics and the private is adding to that when in reality going private from day 1 is going to be cheaper than relying on the NHS to cock up your health then having to pay privately to undo the mess made and then start to get you better.

I understand why you have encouraged this and I think you have very good intentions. However you cannot and will not change him, and unless he takes the decision to sign up for therapy then it will not work.

I’d encourage you to seek therapy for yourself. A therapist will listen to you talk through this issue and help you work out what is going on and what your options are. Realistically, that is all you can control.

I think he should take the job if he wants to. Why stay here and be totally miserable. Its worth a try IMHO.

I spent 5 yrs in the US OP.
If the package is rubbish, as someone else has stated, it's probably aimed at a young, single person. Not a family. Would he be employed as a local or an expat?
You're totally right to be wary. Especially given your own employment opportunities. Don't give that up.
If he was being offered the most amazing package, and you could take a sabbatical from your job, I'd say MAYBE, but relocating and living abroad is hard work. the working person must put their all into the job. You will be left to make a life. you won't get a working visa. He realises Americans are lucky to get 2 weeks holiday right? You don't get to live a great life in America without a good salary. Paying all your own healthcare costs? Madness. Americans choose a job based on the healthcare offered.
Difficult though if he is pinning all his hopes on this fresh start. even if you prove to him why its not doable, you're the bad guy crushing his dreams, even though they are unrealistic.
I think a discussion about how to make things better in the UK would be better.

I think he should take the job if he wants to. Why stay here and be totally miserable. Its worth a try IMHO.

The OP isn't totally miserable and nor are the DCs. Why should they give up their lives for one unhappy individual?