DH is a passenger in our marriage. Is it too late for us to change?

[Heli1copter]

Its suddenly hit me in the last few days that DH is a complete passenger when it comes to family things.

He will quite happily organise his own life, work, hobbies etc but does nothing for the family. Take this weekend as an example, I booked a trip away. He wants to go fishing so he's arranged a day of fishing for himself near to where we are staying. He wants to go running while we're away so has planned a route around where we're staying. He has packed for himself. I booked accommodation, organised all activities for family, looked up restaurants and shopping locations, paid for everything so far. Currently packing for myself and DC while he complains about why its taking so long to get ready.

Its like this throughout the year. He organises things for himself but never asks if we want to go out as a family. I am the default family organiser. I am so fed up of it feeling like he's a passenger but I have no idea what to do about it. If I told him how I feel he'd claim he does loads for the DC and around the house and that I'm being unfair and critical of him. If I stopped organising family things we'd never go anywhere.

Several options

• have the conversation with him


• tell him which bits are his responsibility “I’m packing, you choose the restaurant for the first three nights” or “you need to get the holiday cash” “I don’t know what do you think?” If he asks


• get solo counselling to understand why your relationship has got here, so you can choose some strategies for it


• carry on as you are, festering and resentful


• carry on as you are and as the children grow up have the freedom to do exactly what you want

As you can see, I’ve been here and rotated through the strategies. Festering and resentful isn’t the best option. Counselling has been transformational.

You seem afraid of him disagreeing with your perspective. This could be for one of two reasons.

1. You are uncertain of whether you’re really being fair in feeling the way you do. You say he will say he does loads with the kids and you’re being unfair. Maybe you feel unable to back up your perspective with strong evidence and if think you brought it up he might be able to convincingly argue that he contributes in other ways and then you would have to accept that you aren’t willing to pull your weight. Or…
2. You know that you have a mountain of evidence to back up the way you feel but you expect from previous experience he will deny, dismiss, argue, ignore or claim that the only problem is some kind of character flaw on your part (never happy, unreasonable etc) until you give up trying to be heard in frustration.

Which is it?

I can see here you're coming from. If I tell him which bits to do he does them, but complains I'm controlling and bossing him around. Its more like he just can't be bothered with us and would happily go off and do his own thing.

He had a health scare last year and at the time his main concern was how it would affect his hobbies and his work (in that order) with the impact on DC or me as an afterthought. He rarely takes any interest in how me or DC are when he's away with work whereas when I'm away I ask him lots of questions about how everyone is and make sure everything DC might need while I'm away is organised before I go. I buy all presents for his side of the family and so on. Its like I have to initiate everything or it just won't happen and its so draining.

I was married to a man like this for 13 years. It got worse after we had a child. I divorced him 4 years ago, and he hasn’t changed. He does nothing for his child and is no better than a babysitter. I’m happier without him, but it’s very painful watching his relationship with my child.

From my viewpoint its 2 but I don't know how an outside person would view it.

Here's what he does do for the family:
Makes breakfast for DC 4 mornings a week while I get ready for work
Takes DC8 to/from a sports club once a week
Looks after DC4 for an hour while I take DC8 swimming once a week.
Once a week nursery dropoff.
Bathtime and bedtime twice a week.
Puts the bins out
Renews car insurances and tax
About once every 3 weeks he does a food shop.

I do everything else for DC, all cooking, meal planning, buy clothes, book all appointments and trips, pay for all activities, organise holidays, organise playdates, take to their other weekly activities, plan weekend things etc etc etc. I also work full time in a fairly senior role with responsibilities for a team of 10 people.

As you were listing what you do for the kids, my thought was ‘I bet she works full time too’. It’s just a deeply unfair division of labour, and your husband sounds very much as you say - just a passenger. I am not sure what to advise - have you sat down and listed out the difference in what you do vs what he does?

I don’t suppose you have much ‘couple time’ either? As in dates, activities, adult time together having fun, intimacy and all of this?

This isn't a partnership, and you know it isn't right or you wouldn't be posting. He's checked out OP. He's had ample chance to contribute but he's told you loud and clear with his actions that he just doesn't care.
If I were you I would start making an exit plan. This is no way to live, nor is it a good lesson for your kids in how relationships should work.

I guess that's what I'm afraid of. He's checked out so will he ever check back in? Lots of marriages go through rough patches but get back on track, I thunk? I suppose I don't know whether its worth fighting for or not.

He does love DC and they would be devastated if he wasn't around, its more the adulting part that he's just completely ignoring and so it all ends up on me, or when I point out its not fair or tell him I'm unhappy he flips it back onto me that I'm the one being unfair. Our relationship between us is poor, not much affection. Probably because I feel so ground down by this having gone on for years and I'm just sinking deeper and deeper into feeling like he's lazy and selfish which I find deeply unattractive.

Deeply selfish to only think of the holiday as what leisure or hobby stuff he can get out of it. I had a blazing row on holiday with my dh a few years ago - he was moaning that it took too long to leave the room to go out - well he was sat reading a book whilst I was looking after the kids, doing suncream for them, packing everyone up a hat, their swimwear, water, towels and whatever. (I mean for all 4 of us!) I lost it with him and shouted about all the stuff/adulting that he was ignoring. He has not done it since and did seem to realise what a passenger prick he was being. Now he thinks what the family needs to go out.

You married a deeply selfish man and he has just carried on putting himself first.

Shit husband.
Shit father.

He leaves it to you and unfortunately your low expectations have allowed him to get away with it.

Any friend of mine who felt a growing equality of sharing the load resulted in them stopping doing anything that benefitted their husband.

This took the form of laundry, cooking, purchasing any food they liked, specifically cooked food they didn't like, did nothing for their family whatsoever and the big one for one friend simply booked a break away without her husband and told him to sort out the children for the week.

They didn't actually have any big discussion other than, my load is too big and I'm cutting back anywhere I can.

They stepped up and copped themselves on. But the girls agreed they shouldn't have allowed it go on for so long.

Look at what you are doing that benefits him and stop.

Stop being a martyr.

Look at your finances and think about going it alone, it probably be easier as I presume he would want contact witj his children?
Maybe he wouldn't.

Your marriage sounds over.

Oh and as an aside, teaching children to pack for themselves is a great skill.

A good start would probably be to discuss this with him, as from your OP I understand you've not actually had the conversation yet. If he realised how you really feel there might be some positive changes.

It’s a tough one, I can totally see why you are frustrated! You must be at your wits end!

The fact that he says you are controlling is interesting to me, could there be some truth in it?

I ask because before you mentioned it that’s what his behaviour indicated to me, that he’s disengaged partially because he doesn’t feel like he has much control or like he can get things right in your eyes.

It might be an interesting experiment to just not do most/all of the things you take responsibility for, just stop doing them and accept that not everything is going to get done the way you feel it should be. Then if he does do anything, engages at all, just be enthusiastic about it (even if it’s slightly crap initially). It might be that he’s learned at some point that stepping up isn’t very rewarding for him, so if you step back, and “reward” even the small efforts he makes, you will probably find he’ll do more. Also, probably most importantly, you should plan stuff for yourself like he does, sounds nice, it’s not like he can object to it!

I get that you shouldn’t have to do all that- but from experience I think it has a good chance of working.

He's been doing this for years. It doesn't sound like a blip. It also doesn't sound like there's any motivation for him to change, so why would he? You run around doing everything and basically enable him to have an awesome life only having to think about himself 95% of the time. There's no point trying to change him. You need to let go of the idea of man you thought you married, and realise that this is who he is. Up to you if you want to keep putting up with him.

I highly recommend divorce, once kids are old enough that it isn't disruptive. Why bother with this once kids have left home? They are just a drain on your energy and resources.

I ask because before you mentioned it that’s what his behaviour indicated to me, that he’s disengaged partially because he doesn’t feel like he has much control or like he can get things right in your eyes.

There's always one....

He thinks your'e controlling because you ask him to actually DO something?! FFS. Accusing women of being controlling or of nagging is just brilliant way men in the 21st century have managed to continue to get out of doing stuff (in the past they could ditch it on the basis it was "women's work" or they were the "breadwinner. Those arguments don't hold anymore so they had to come up with something different).

I do think you need to sit down and have a proper conversation. Tell him what you've said here - that you feel he's a passenger and takes no initiative or thought into anything for the family. When your'e on holiday, outside of the time he'll spend doing his own thing, is he engaged and present with you and the DC? If he is, there's a good chance you can fix it - point out that perhaps the kids would like to learn to fish or go out with him for a day and see how he responds. If, however, he's largely just trailing along behind, I'd say he's really not that interested and you've probably got a bigger problem on your hands.

Dh is, quite frankly, useless at proactive planning and organising. But a) he's stepped up and taken certain things on so I don't have to and b) he spends loads of time with the DC, goes places with them, engages with them etc etc etc.

It sounds like he just expects you'll do everything. He won't change but until you leave him maybe stop doing things for him like buying presents for his side of the family.

If he’s been like this for years then there is no way he is going to change and start considering you and the kids at all.
His life if exactly as he wants it. He contributes as little as he can get away with and you pick up the rest of the slack.
I would do as billy suggested above. Do nothing for him and certainly stop buying presents for his family. Tell them it is now his responsibility so if they get nothing then it is not on you. Your marriage and life sound very sad for both you and the children. He’s a very selfish self indulged man.

For starters delegate a whole heap of stuff to him.

Meal planning, food shopping, cooking. Then laundry - washing, drying, folding and putting away with the DC help.

@Heli1copter I have to disagree with all the calls for divorce! You can absolutely turn this around, if you want to that is. If you don’t that’s a different issue.

He seems basically decent from what you’ve described, it’s very unfair at the moment I get that, but he doesn’t do absolutely nothing so there is hope!

Does he deserve to get a medal for all he does? No, of of course not. Is it in your interest to give him a medal for the little he does? Yes it is, it’s behavioural science 101, it’s called shaping. At the risk of repeating myself…

Reward anything that’s close to the behaviour you want to see, consistently and unwaveringly.

Be positive and grateful for what he gets right, ignore what he gets wrong.

Don’t do anything you don’t want to do but don’t pressurise him into doing it instead, just let it go.

It will work. You are ground down, but you will find this fun once you start seeing the results, give it 10 days of doing it consistently.

It sounds like he has some very sexist ideas about your job being the kids and his job being himself

I don’t think it’s likely to change

My ex would say I was a control freak and a nag. I was a control freak because I had to be or nothing would get done. He didn't even know how to access our joint bank account. I used all the excuses in the book for his shitty behaviour, childhood trauma, bereavement blah blah blah until one day I realised that actually he's just a selfish, useless arse. We are separated 4 years now and he hasn't changed.

Seriously though ... why bother?

He's not a dog she has to train.

He has engineered such a cushy life for himself deliberately. No wonder there’s no affection in your marriage, he’s effectively checked out of it.

The children won’t be devastated as you perhaps think they would be if he left. He is absent from their lives in many important respects,

do not do your bit here to further teach your children such damaging lessons about relationships.

ive got to love the praise him when he gets it right like a dog

hes an adult man he shouldnt be having praise or needing to be told what to do

he manages at work doesnt he-so why cant he manage at home

because he doesnt want to