DH is a passenger in our marriage. Is it too late for us to change?

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Its suddenly hit me in the last few days that DH is a complete passenger when it comes to family things.

He will quite happily organise his own life, work, hobbies etc but does nothing for the family. Take this weekend as an example, I booked a trip away. He wants to go fishing so he's arranged a day of fishing for himself near to where we are staying. He wants to go running while we're away so has planned a route around where we're staying. He has packed for himself. I booked accommodation, organised all activities for family, looked up restaurants and shopping locations, paid for everything so far. Currently packing for myself and DC while he complains about why its taking so long to get ready.

Its like this throughout the year. He organises things for himself but never asks if we want to go out as a family. I am the default family organiser. I am so fed up of it feeling like he's a passenger but I have no idea what to do about it. If I told him how I feel he'd claim he does loads for the DC and around the house and that I'm being unfair and critical of him. If I stopped organising family things we'd never go anywhere.

It’s a good question, if OP doesn’t want to maintain the marriage and suspects she’d be happier without him then she should just put the wheels in motion for that. I’m just trying answer the original question, is it too late to change- my answer is no, but it takes a bit of skill and effort.
Im not a big believer in expecting and hoping people will change- but this is an easy one imho. Also, worst case scenario is she tries it, is still not happy and moves on. Just giving up on the marriage at this points seems like the nuclear option here, this is an easy fix in my experience, it’s not like cheating, abuse or addiction- totally fixable (from what OP has said anyway)

Would he change if it was that or separation/divorce?

Tbh I think there are two kinds of ‘love’ - the active sort, where you take actions and commit to being there for those around you in day to day terms (which is what you show) and a passive sort where you may have feelings of ‘love’ but you think the feelings on their own are enough and should be all that is needed (what he seems to show).

People can say they love others till the cows come home, but what is that love if it’s just passive words and isn’t demonstrated? It’s a bit like when someone is in an abusive situation (not saying that’s your situation) and they put up with all manner of behaviour because ‘he/she loves me’, even though the actions say otherwise.

I’ve experienced a few people close to me over the years like this - they say ‘I love you’ or in my sons dads case ‘I love our son more than anything in the world’, but when you look at the way they behave the only evidence of this ‘love’ seems to be the words coming out of their mouths. So for me, while those words are important to me still in life, I look to them as an affirmation of what I can already feel and experience by the way someone behaves, not as evidence in of themselves.

Tell him simply that your life would be easier without him in it and his life would be more difficult without you, so what is he going to do to make it worth staying in this marriage?

If he does nothing, you know it's time to leave.

If he steps up, your marriage might be worth saving.

I think you should have a talk with a marriage g person. on your own first and work out what you want, what is possible etc.
I also, and I really really hate that this is one of my first throughts.. but finances. I think given how much he has checked out of family life that you need to follow the money.
This is because, You say that you pay for all the children's activities? Why. You buy all the presents for his family. Why ( because he's probably proved once or twice that he's useless at it ... let him be useless at it and direct any complaints back to him) Do you pay for these too.
You both work full time. Yet you do the lions share of all the family stuff. Time to offload some and even up.
Suggest that he should pay half for activitites. You organise everything for them. I'm betting that you are contributing more to that side of things than he is and this is a clear cut way of demonstrating this to him that he can't just put down to feminine hysterics.
As a future proofing measure you should make sure that you have control of your own money/pension/savings and that you are not spending all of your income keeping the children/family side of the household afloat,. Everytime you pay for the children's activities and he contributes nothing, its taking money out of your potential savings (which you might want for the children in the future)

I was married to a man like this for 18 years. The trouble with the option of telling him what to do is that he never bore the weight of responsibility for organising things - the mental load, so to speak.

Having separated and ultimately divorced, he still undertakes no responsibility for the socio-emotional or mental weight of parenting late teens. He keeps in weekly contact with the kids but it's like them visiting an elderly uncle, not a dad. I've been the one comforting them as older teens when they're worried about impending exams late at night or nursing their hangovers or sorting out clearing for a uni place. Ex husband did and does nothing - no ferrying to uni, helping to settle, etc. Not once has he visited his child in their uni town but thinks nothing of travelling 3 hrs to see his latest gf. He's missed out on so much.

The one thing I would say is it's his loss. I got fed up of mine doing nothing but coming on the jolly of a holiday so know exactly where you're coming from. I'd get rid sooner rather than later.

One thing to consider is that you are modelling division of labour in a marriage to your DCs. Do you want them to have a relationship likes yours? If not, you have to stop modelling it. They will expect what you model. In my view, if it’s not what you want for them, it’s not good enough for you.

I think as a society we really need to SHOW men that if they aren’t equal partners in running houses and raising kids, we don’t want them. And we need to bring our kids to expect it by modelling it, or modelling the consequences of not having it. You can’t, as a society, expect women to work like fathers until you also expect fathers to parent like mothers.

That's really sad. I'm not sure I could stay with a man who didn't have his family as his first priority, someone who didn't see me as his partner, in the literal sense of the word

Not once has he visited his child in their uni town but thinks nothing of travelling 3 hrs to see his latest gf. He's missed out on so much.
The one thing I would say is it's his loss. I got fed up of mine doing nothing but coming on the jolly of a holiday so know exactly where you're coming from.

Yep, you are spot on. It is his loss, he doesn't even know what he has lost. My own father was like your ex, now he has a superficial relationship with me and 2 of my siblings and the other one doesn't see or speak to him ever. We're all so close to each other and my mother though because we all built relationships with each other through the years. I feel sorry that my dad will never know what a real relationship feels like. He doesn't have one with anyone

Thanks for all your viewpoints it is giving me a lot to think through. I agree its not good role modelling at the moment for my DC. My DPs had a completely different setup when I grew up as DM was a SAHM so they had different but fairly equal loads overall. Now I think about it maybe part of the problem is that DH parents divorced when he was young and his DM raised him singlehandedly for many years before she remarried. His DF is very lazy, way worse than DH but I guess that is where he's headed. Or he subconsciously expects me to do what his DM did as a single parent??

It's misogyny isn't it? He thinks he does what he wants and everything else is wifework.

I've reread your answer op but can't see what hours you work.

If you're full time - jobs need ti be shared

If he works 60 hours ti your 30 it maybe be fair as you are.

Sounds like most married men tbh. The wife seems to organise/sort everything, and he happily lets her.

Even now I know half a dozen young 20-something (and early 30-something) women with fiancés and husbands (2 have no kids yet,) and they already organise everything (trips away, holidays abroad, meals out, meeting with friends and family, gifts for her family AND his, etc etc.) They were feisty feminists who swore this would never happen - and yet here they are!

One woman I know has been with her boyfriend 6 years (living together for 3, getting married early 2024, and they have a son aged 11 months,) and he told her (on Tuesday) he off on a golfing trip Thursday morning for 2-3 days Coming back Saturday evening. All over the jubilee break.

There was no 'do you mind if I go etc?'' Just 'I am going.' SHE has to look after the baby for the 2-3 days, and socialise with her family - AND his - at the local pub for the Jubilee 'do' tomorrow. Whilst he will be golfing, and partying and boozing with his mates. He also does sweet fuck-all in the house. She doesn't do much either because she works 3 days a week and does all the childcare, so only does essential things. So the house is a tip most of the time.

I mean, it's just unfathomable. I can't IMAGINE just fucking off for 2-3 days on a sports jolly, when my baby was less than a year old, and leaving my husband to get on with everything. I can't imagine any woman doing it. Yet men find it so easy to just detach themselves, and fuck off for days on end (and evenings out where they don't come back til the next morning - seen many threads on here about this.)

Sure there are some good men, but some are just selfish, self-absorbed, and self-centred, and are all 'me-me-me-me-me!' They will regularly put themselves first, and will sometimes ONLY think of themselves. Many posters on here will deny it and insist THEIR husband is not like this, but more men are like this than not. Yes, they really are.

So spare me the 'well MY husband is not like this, we are 50-50 in everything in our lives. I am sorry YOU know so many shit men!' type comments. Coz the fact is, that a large % of men are inherently selfish.

I work full time, Mon to Friday. Usually out the house 8am to 6pm although I can WFH on quieter days with no meetings. DH also works full time. I earn more than 2x DH and on average do more hours than him.

Deeply selfish to only think of the holiday as what leisure or hobby stuff he can get out of it
I don’t agree that it’s ‘deeply selfish’. My DH and I both peruse our own interests (even on holiday) but it’s balanced. So we enable each other to have time out as well as making sure there is enough family time. It can work for everyone.
The issue here is the lack of balance. OP is taking on the bulk of the chores and her DH isn’t stepping up enough.

I agree that it can be saved if you both want to. How does he respond when you challenge him on this? Have you tried a more even distribution of tasks previously? What happened? Do you think he can/I’ll change?

I was married to someone like this.

He got away with it for years because he worked away a lot. So I got things done when he was away so we could spend time together when he was home.

Then he changed to a 'normal' job and I realised that he was just an entitled, lazy, untidy, arrogant, a-hole.

I told him he needed to 'shape up or ship out' and his response was to start an affair. I found out, threw him out and divorced him.

He stayed with OW who was a lot younger and happy to be a 'sexual housekeeper' and ask for nothing.

Years later I met and married an ex-forces chap who can wash, iron (better than me) polishes shoes, cooks and is pretty useful about the place.

There is a better life for you OP if you choose to go for it.

I work full time, Mon to Friday. Usually out the house 8am to 6pm although I can WFH on quieter days with no meetings. DH also works full time. I earn more than 2x DH and on average do more hours than him.

I was afraid of this. You'v basically got a cocklodger here don't you? I mean sure, he gives the kids breakfast occasionally. Doesn't make him a prince.

And if you ask for help, he gets to play the victim, "nothing I do is good enough".

I'm not saying you should LTB. But if you don't get on top of this in some way soon, it's not going to end well. I'm increasingly of the opinion tha nothing ruins a relationship quicker than resentment.

I don’t think he has checked out.
I think he has never checked in.

And yes it’s a sexist/misogynistic attitude. It’s also a guy who managed to get away with murder for the last 10 years.
And the worst thing is that you are going to find extremely hard to change that because whatever you do will have the potential to affect negatively the dcs (if he doesn’t do what he was supposed to do) so you are very likely to either step in to do it anyway.

@MarvellousMay it is selfish when you ONLY think about what you will do and have no thought about what your partner or your dcs will do.

Underneath that there is also the expectation that he can Bugger off to do his own this Wo even asking the OP if that’s ok, what is the plan and will his plans interfere with the weekend. That’s a hell of lot of entitlement too.

You outearn him, outwork him, carry his deadweight, and are demonstrating to your kids that women exist to pick up men’s slack. Would life not be easier if you ditched him and then he’d have to parent his kids and function as an adult?

These type of threads always baffle me - I get why you do things for your children even when he doesn’t do his fair share because you don’t want to kids to miss out - deeply unfair but I think the right thing to do for your kids.

but what I don’t understand is why you would do so much for him? Including buying HIS family presents!!! Just why?? I’m going to bet you also take responsibility for the cooking and meal planning, the cleaning and I would not be surprised if you do his laundry. Baffling.

youre the higher earner - you don’t have the complications of some women who are financially reliant - why on earth would you stay with him? Ultimately it’s not the best thing for your children because every day you’re teaching them that this is what a relationship should look like.

Just think if you divorced he would have to look after them EOW and school holidays or admit he is the crap and disinterested Dad he really his.

He only does the nice bits when he suits him it seems.

Absolutely stop doing his shit.

Laundry, gift buying etc etc

Sounds like you are financially well placed to leave. If you don’t want to, I suggest you tel him that you are increasingly unhappy and would like to go for counselling. The holiday is an excellent example to use, I would be apoplectic with rage in your shoes. I have lost it at my Dh numerous times over the years on holiday planning (it’s never got as bad as he thinks he can just fuck off and do his own thing though!) and I ended up telling him that for the next year he could only come on holidays he organised. If he did a half arsed job we weren’t going and I didn’t care how much money we lost, or if the taxi was scheduled to arrive in half an hour, and if i organised it he wasn’t welcome. Since then he’s been much much better, as you’ve noticed with your dh he’s perfectly capable just can’t be arsed channeling that energy and effort your way. The health scare story is shocking- does he even want to be with you and the kids tbh? Can you raise that in counselling and ask why he’s even still there if he doesn’t even think of you all in a health scare?

Yes, stop doing his stuff. Definitely no more thinking about his family's birthdays etc. (and feel free to casually mention this to in laws as necessary.)

Also, start planning stuff for yourself and just announcing it, "while we're in Spain next week, I'm super excited that I managed to get tickets to a fabulous exhibition for myself. I'll be doing that on Tuesday." Or whatever.

But unless he accepts he's just a passenger and lazy, it's unlikely to help. Because he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. He probably tells everyone you like to be in control and/or that he can't do anything in case you tell him it's wrong. sigh.