DH is a passenger in our marriage. Is it too late for us to change?

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Its suddenly hit me in the last few days that DH is a complete passenger when it comes to family things.

He will quite happily organise his own life, work, hobbies etc but does nothing for the family. Take this weekend as an example, I booked a trip away. He wants to go fishing so he's arranged a day of fishing for himself near to where we are staying. He wants to go running while we're away so has planned a route around where we're staying. He has packed for himself. I booked accommodation, organised all activities for family, looked up restaurants and shopping locations, paid for everything so far. Currently packing for myself and DC while he complains about why its taking so long to get ready.

Its like this throughout the year. He organises things for himself but never asks if we want to go out as a family. I am the default family organiser. I am so fed up of it feeling like he's a passenger but I have no idea what to do about it. If I told him how I feel he'd claim he does loads for the DC and around the house and that I'm being unfair and critical of him. If I stopped organising family things we'd never go anywhere.

@PurpleButterflyWings, sadly I agree.

Some men are just totally self centred. Like a pp, Ex H had a health scare and his first thought was how he would cope with work and his hobby. No consideration to our dc. Now he is even more determined to pursue his hobby as feels time could run out. He chooses not to include the dc as they would slow him down.

I just don't understand how he believes on his death bed he will be more grateful he did xyz rather than had time with his children.

Op, in your case your H has decided to look after himself. It's as simple as that. I imagine he doesn't value connection as much as you do. If he was honest he might say he likes a family set up but it's peripheral to his life, not central.

I suspect it's his nature - a mixture of nurture and nature. He is probably quite low on empathy as well as can't put himself in your shoes.

Just say clever boy, well done for organising the restaurant booking, or ordering the food shop etc.

But is he the boss in the bedroom? Bet he is very assertive when it suits him!🤔

I would simply say:

'You either check back into our marriage emotionally and get involved - properly involved with all of us, including me or you won't have a family to return any longer. I am the unpaid housekeeper, babysitter and PA to you and it stops now. We can discuss how we will divide up the jobs/mental load and organisation to facilitate the extra hours needed, you will need to cut back on your hobbies - I will leave it to you to decide which ones will be reduced. Or we just call it quits now, because I am burnt out, totally unappreciated and feel like you care very little for me, as your wife'

I would lay it out to him
His reaction will tell you everything you need to know

I would not continue any longer effectively being his mother, and I would tell him so. A health scare usually reminds people how much they love their wives and family op, so your red flags were there.

He does not have your back, and unless he is prepared to make a huge effort now then I really would stop, you will grow to hate him otherwise and that will not be good for you or your children.

We say it a lot on here, but you deserve more op!

So you've booked a weekend away and he's organised activities only for himself including one that takes him away from the family for a entire day?

That would be tipping point for me.

A friend when on a family holiday she'd entirely organised and her DH actually went home on day 3 because he was bored apparently.

She finished the holiday with her DC's went to her parents for a week and then went home and told him she was divorcing him.

when I point out its not fair or tell him I'm unhappy he flips it back onto me that I'm the one being unfair. Our relationship between us is poor, not much affection.

You clearly need an outside mediator to help you express your viewpoint without DH dismissing it, and allow him to express his own views that then may or may not be challenged by the mediator. Your communication is broken and you are becoming resentful. It’s hard to come back from resentment so I’d be telling him couples counselling to work through issues is non-negotiable in this scenario if he wants to stay married.

I did in fact tell my DH this when he had a similar bout, at about the same life stage as you’re in with your DC’s ages, of ‘you’re so unfair to me, I do loads more than those mythical other men, your standards are too high, I can’t do anything right’. I told him if he truly believed what he was saying then we’d have to book counselling to work on our communication because it was impossible to solve problems if he couldn’t hear me out without being defensive and self-pitying, because I was out of ideas to explain in a way he found acceptable, and he surely wasn’t suggesting I should just put up and shut up if I thought something wasn’t fair.

Miraculously he regained the ability to listen and see it from my perspective sometimes without counselling. He was just ineptly getting out of shitwork of family life because sometimes it’s tedious. He’s much much better now at doing a fair share.

You leave him now, you stand a very good chance of being happy with someone else that genuinely appreciates you. This is going to be hell as he gets older, and leans on you even more, and complains the whole time due to his entitlement.

You are a good earner, take away his peachy life and at least then you will have guaranteed breaks when the dc are staying with him. He will have to step up then. He does not realise what a great set up he has, there is no way I would put up with any of this, no even for a nanosecond. So he has had a good run, time to look after yourself now op because he bloody well isn't going to.

I agree that upbringing has a lot to do with things. Once my DH started to communicate and do more again, we did discuss that our upbringings gave us different ideas of family life - his was a SAHM who did everything (‘because it’s easier and quicker to do it to my standard’ aka control freak) and a father who basically did his own thing -hobbies, exercise obsessive- and very few family days out etc.

So when DH would say my standards were too high (they’re really, REALLY not!) I pointed out he’d actually be confusing me with his mother. Because I have no opinions on how a dishwasher is stacked, or whatever, other than relief it’s done!

In contrast my upbringing was 2 FT working parents but with loads of grandparent help for all childcare and domestic matters like laundry & cleaning, and a dad who did all the daily cooking & food shopping etc while my mum did the thinking & planning and loads of family outings. So my own domestic organisation is definitely also on the ‘WTF - do I have to do all this shit?’ side of things too.

OP- my ex DH was also a passenger on our marriage. He adopted an attitude of complete passivity in relation to every family task but then would complain I was "controlling" or "nagging" him if I insisted he do something. I think it is too late when you have built up resentment and there is no or little affection left. But the good news is that separation and divorce really aren't that bad as long as you can be financially independent and both of you can cooperate in regards to the children. I am a million times happier since I left all that behind. You only have one life and you shouldn't spend it mired in frustration and resentment.

Ffs OP, working longer and earning twice.

You say your parents modelled well.

Why on earth are you funding this selfish wasters life?

Where in gods name is your self respect?

I am a great believer in withdrawing services.

He adds fxxk all to your life, why are you making his life so comfortable?

Stop it.

Stop doing ANYTHING that benefits him.
Get your finances organised.

In the space you create doing nothing for him.....get counselling for yourself urgently.

Stop engaging with him.
Stop pretending his behaviour is ok.

With my few friends who took action, they got a reaction very quickly when they stopped doing anything.

They didn't get angry, they just disengaged.

Speak to the 🤚, the face ain't interested.
Funnily enough it was bloody golf that did it for two of them.
It had just crept up and was taking all day Saturday.
So they were run raggedy doing it all, until they snapped.
In fairness both men are nice, but a bit selfish.
They certainly did not want their marriages to end, BUT they both needed manners put on them and a real reality check.
Children would have been the 6-12 age group, which is when weekends can be a grind doing activities, training, matches etc.
It was sorted for those two.

The other twat was cycling🙄and was just gone several evenings a week and at the weekend.
One of his trips clashed with something she had long booked and she snapped.
The following friday she headed off for a last minute week away with a friend and he was left with 3 children and had to take a weeks holiday.
He was very nasty about it too, he had the cheek to give her shit for "abandoning her children" after all the time he was nowhere to be seen.
That was almost the final nail in the coffin.

She came home to the spare bedroom and told him she wanted a separation.

His mother who my friend wasn't particularly close to gave him the riot act and told him he was a selfish disgrace and he certainly wasn't moving home.

Their marriage was very rocky for months afterwards but the cycling was down to one evening a week as he was anothet twat who couldn't believe that he was heading for divorce.

The thing is men like this are no loss.
Invariably women are happier on their own than accommodating such selfishness long term.

They certainly fall out of love with them.

There is definitely a type of man who becomes hobbie obsessed in his 40's when their children are really labour intensive.

It is the time a lot of women want out.

OP, you and your children so deserve better.

@billy1966

His mother who my friend wasn't particularly close to gave him the riot act and told him he was a selfish disgrace and he certainly wasn't moving home.
^^^^^^

Well done to 'his mother '

Obviously this doesn't apply to all men, but a lot of men leave all the life admin to their partner. Why, probably because it is easier. When I married my husband suddenly I was responsible for our social lives, booking, researching and planning all holidays , buying all the presents for our children and his family. My DP is a brilliant parent...he used to do all the rugby fixtures at weekends, would drop and pick up the kids from wherever and whenever was necessary. He would be a good host when people came over, usually footed the bill when we went out and never complained about my choice if holiday. So what is the problem?
I have to do all the thinking, booking, buying, organising and work full time. I became so tired of it. Now his family don't get presents as I have told them that DP is going to be responsible for them. Once a week it us his responsibility to plan what to eat and cook it or buy a takeaway....if he doesn't, there us nothing for him, we go out and leave him to it.
It has been hard and he can't see what my problem is but only the people who continously do all the thinking and planning know how tiring it is.

A psychologist once told me that men like this are being parented, not partnered. And that women are biologically programmed not to be attracted to beings they are parenting. I think a lot men might have more of a insight into how their home life affects their sex lives, and why both are a bit shit if they understood this.

A lot of these answers still involve parenting the DH, and a lot of effort on OPs part to making her DH into a functioning adult.

Realistically I think once a man has reached the age of marriage and children, he has already decided what his priorities and responsibilities are in life. He doesn't view life in the same way you do, his main priorities is himself and he won't really ever see family life as his responsibility. You maybe able to teach him to put more effort in but it'll take a lot of effort on your part and to be honest why should you? He's not a child or a dog, he's funny capable of being an adult but has chosen not to

Why on earth would you put up with this then? You work longer hours and earn double but you put up with doing virtually all housework and 'wifework'. Time to stand up for yourself.

Just stop doing stuff for him. It's very easy to fall into that trap. I realised that somehow I had ended up being responsible for every bloody card, present etc for his family. Nearly had a meltdown one Christmas and put my foot down. Now it's up to him. 80% of the time he 'forgets' but his family are still speaking to him 😂

Same with housework. Just tell him what his jobs are! You can salvage this! (If you want to)

There are some things you can change straight away. Stop buying cards and presents for his family. Stop running around doing things for him that he's perfectly capable of doing himself. And in fact he has more time on his hands than you do. If you book his medical appointments, haircuts etc, stop.

That isn't being petty. You are both adults. You are both capable of life admin. You can both do your own. If anything, you work longer hours so he should be helping you out a bit.

Talk to him about the unfairness of his selfishness. He sees your job as looking after you and the children (and the life admin, and the house) and his job is looking after himself.

You can't force him to do his half of the workload but you can stop doing the things you don't need to. When it comes to holidays, suggest you take it in turns to organise them. Or you book the cottage, he books the restaurants. If he doesn't do his bit then plan things so you get the same amount of downtime at least. If he has a day out on a hobby then arrange for you to do the same.

These are practical things you can do to hopefully improve things. If he won't engage, it's a sure sign he thinks the 'wifework' is your job, his time is more important than yours, your job is to look after him. In which case, I'd seriously consider if you want to be with someone so selfish, self-centred and uncaring.

Our relationship between us is poor, not much affection. Probably because I feel so ground down by this having gone on for years and I'm just sinking deeper and deeper into feeling like he's lazy and selfish which I find deeply unattractive.

Sit him down and say exactly that.

When he responds that you are controlling and unfair and he does absolutely loads - SIX things no less, weekly - tell him you are sorry he feels so put upon and henpecked, but you are not his mother and his immature approach to partnership has left you deeply disappointed.

Tell him he's not the only one feeling burdened, and therefore you are just going to take care of whatever you and the DCs need from now on - laundry, cooking, and the DCs' paperwork. If you have a spare bedroom, move him into it or do it up for yourself and move in. You won't be booking holiday accommodation for him. You and the kids are heading to Club Med and they'll be having fun in the kids club while you sip margaritas and read trashy novels by the pool all day.

My DH never used to be like this, but it started after a major health scare and heart operation.

He is now completely egocentric, and rarely listens to anything I say because it isn't really of any importance to him. He organises things only when it is something that he's decided he wants to do, and anything else is deemed a severe inconvenience.

I am also breaking under the strain of "mental load" bollocks
One thing I hate is when I plan stuff or ask for an opinion about a day out with the kids and he just says "I'm not bothered" he means it in a I'm happy to do whatever you want way but all I hear is
"I don't really care"

Very tiring

what does he bring to the party then?

This is so true. My ex expected me to mother him and It was a total turn off.

I also think perhaps a lot of these men never really considered what family life would be like and have never considered promising anyone but themselves. They don't see themselves as part of a unit they see themselves and then wife and child as 2 separately units.

I don't think its upbringing in terms of his mum did everything but I think it's more upbringing in terms of boy has loads of fun action toys, girl has change a babies nappy toys. Boys often aren't taught care and responsibility towards others in the same way that young girls are. Hopefully that is changing

Well we managed to get to our holiday but its not looking great. I drove 2.5hrs with no discussion, DH just got in the passenger seat as we were leaving home and sat there looking incredulous when I said I was tired and could he drive. For the sake of DC i just got on with it. They both hate when we argue about anything or when I pull him up or call him out for laziness.

I hear what you're saying about separation but I am really afraid I'd end up doing everything alone. Like if he wasn't living here there's a risk he would 100% check out and just not bother with DC. I could probably cope but I'd have to change my life around and it would mean stalling my career as on the occasional work trip that I do (maybe once a month) then I'd be stuffed. Having read all your comments I'm actually thinking DH is almost like an au pair that helps a bit with DC during the week but is basically a disinterested teenager looking for an easy time. He is about as useful as a teenager around the house, he does his own laundry (I refuse) and does the washing up maybe 3x a week but never cleans anything and leaves clutter lying around everywhere.

Maybe the signs have been there a long time and I've just glossed over them. Years ago (before we moved in together) I used to travel to see him for a weekend but his flat was always a tip. I had to clean the bathroom before I could use it sometimes! Eventually he got a cleaner because I couldn't stand it and said I wasn't going to stay with him anymore. One time we went to stay with his DM and he kept asking her to do things for him, as if she would enjoy it. It was quite weird now I think about it.

For my DC sake I really want things to work out and I'm afraid he'll turn bitter and vindictive like his DF if we split up. DC would suffer as I'd have to rely even more on childcare and would probably never get a weekend alone. I can't see him coping with 50/50 at all. He might want to see DC a couple of weekends a month but it'd massively get in the way of his hobby. But if he was gone life would be simpler. I wouldn't be continuously disappointed in his lack of effort or live in vain hope he actually changes. Ugh. What a mess.

They don't see themselves as part of a unit they see themselves and then wife and child as 2 separately units.

I sadly think this is true. DH puts himself first, sees his own needs above the family. I put DC first without a doubt. I often end up taking both DC with me to places as he never offers to take them. I have to ask or tell him every time I want to do something alone. Its just so draining.

You are keeping this man around because you are worried he will abandon his children if you separate? Think about that for a second....