DH is a passenger in our marriage. Is it too late for us to change?

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Its suddenly hit me in the last few days that DH is a complete passenger when it comes to family things.

He will quite happily organise his own life, work, hobbies etc but does nothing for the family. Take this weekend as an example, I booked a trip away. He wants to go fishing so he's arranged a day of fishing for himself near to where we are staying. He wants to go running while we're away so has planned a route around where we're staying. He has packed for himself. I booked accommodation, organised all activities for family, looked up restaurants and shopping locations, paid for everything so far. Currently packing for myself and DC while he complains about why its taking so long to get ready.

Its like this throughout the year. He organises things for himself but never asks if we want to go out as a family. I am the default family organiser. I am so fed up of it feeling like he's a passenger but I have no idea what to do about it. If I told him how I feel he'd claim he does loads for the DC and around the house and that I'm being unfair and critical of him. If I stopped organising family things we'd never go anywhere.

I echo the poster that said you can change this, if you want too?

7 years ago I was you, 100% you. Working the bigger role, managing everything. He was the passenger.

I basically had a breakdown and I stopped, I stopped everything, all the washing, school runs, food shopping cleaning. I just got up in the mornings and left for work, I behaved and acted exactly the way he did. I then sat back and watched him learn.

It was awful, it was tough and horrible for both of us, I then started to work with him gradually to share the load, but only when he fully fully understood what he'd made me do, how he'd treated me for years.

I told him he was killing me, making me sad, stressed and aging me, he was selfish etc.

We did sit down and talk and I very clearly told him I was leaving if he wasn't prepared to change and I also took responsibility for not highlighting the issues earlier in the marriage and that I was also to blame for the situation, I understood for him this was a massive shock, as I'd never given him reason to think I was unhappy.

We can fast forward 7 years and we have the best balance of life, in fact he's just grabbed me a cuppa while I'm sunbathing and all the washes are on the line, I don't have to "manage" him he knows what needs doing as much as I do.

Later I'll grab food and cook because I want too, he will clean and is gardening right now.

It can be done, and you'll have to take some responsibility for letting this happen, but if you want it to work, you're going to have to go hard.

And good luck I know how lonely your space is right now l.

Honestly he is completely taking the piss.

I would go away for at least a week (local Travelodge) and not prepare food/washing etc and just leave him to do it all.

You need to reframe his ‘stepping up’ when you work away or have an early start. It needs to be called what it is - doing his share. Trouble is the rest of the share that he’s NOT doing.

@whatnowteenager I’ve done that myself because I found that talking got me nowhere.
The only thing that worked was to force his hand and ‘make’ him to do all that.

However, there are two issues this technique
1- depending on where your DH threshold for cleanliness, etc… it might well arrive at an unacceptable level before he does anything.
This guy might well leave his dc Wo clean clothes or not feed them until the OP arrives. Reusing dirty pans and so on.
2- he might well just refuse to do it, go into angry outbursts etc… and make the whole atmosphere I the house awful - with the I pact on the dcs again.

So yes it can work with some men. I darent say it will work on any and every man.

I agree with you, Gettingthingsdone777! Someone has to be the first to break the cycle and start an intervention.

He’s a cyclist, isn’t he? (They always are.)

Anyway. Au pair sounds like a straight swap to me.

Or he can also just keep doing the early starts/overnights when you have a work trip if he’s not a total cock about coparenting. They can stay with him then.

My DHis a bit like this - I’ve just returned from yet another self catering holiday which I arranged and booked. I also arranged/booked all the activities (it’sCenterparcs) ensuring they all fitted around the swimming times (not as easy as it sounds). Booked the restaurants etc and packed for myself, the dog, all the kitchen stuff and made sure DD packed everything she needed and every time I always say to myself “I”am not doing it next year” as I get no help. He would attempt it if I asked but I can’t trust him to do it properly.

This morning we had to walk half hour to collect our cars (we took 2) and he couldn’t remember where he parked it, he only remembered to take the bloody key coz I reminded him. He never looks at the maps on site to orientate himself so never knows where anything is (& we have been 3 times before).

He asks to take my front door key to our house (he doesn’t use one) as he says he will get there before me but when I get there he is nowhere to be seen. He got lost - it’s one main A road from our house to the location. Took me exactly 1 hr.
he says he didn’t use the Sat Nav but neither did I as it was so easy! I just get so frustrated as I can’t trust him with any tasks but he is a business owner with a very important job, I just don’t know how he does it!

We are going to France in a couple of months (which I again organised) but I will have to remind him to take his passport and driving license like I am his Mother. I am also fed up, can’t you tell ?😂

I wish I knew the answer - other than LTB as it’s exhausting!

Just remind him on the driving license, so if he remembers his passport he can drive instead of being useless. If he forgets his passport he can’t come, would that be so bad? Could you manage it by yourself? Have a talk now saying you aren’t reminding him of what to pack so he hasn’t a leg to stand on if he forgets.
then for next holiday you can say he can only come if he organises it, it all needs to be done 6 weeks or whatever time frame out, includes itinerary, activities, acccom, etc!

What you call stepping up barely registers as parenting on my scale, re you going away for work.

@Gettingthingsdone777 if it was such an easy fix, why is it that so many women are struggling with that exact problem?

Or are you saying it’s the women’s fault for not forcing their DH’s hand into actually you know being a parent and a decent partner? Because somehow they can’t be that Wo women imposing it and holding strongly on their boundaries??

As I said I’ve had a DH like this. And I did exactly what some posters have suggested aka I stopped doing things and waited for him to step up.
Did it happen? Yes. Was it easy? Nope it took YEARS before DH actually truly saw that work as being his rather than me being lazy and him being a victim.

I don’t think that making it the OP’s full responsibility is helping anyone. Yes she can try to cope him to change. But it should be clear that
1- it’s a last resort solution and should not automatically be expected from women
2- it’s not a walk in the park and isn’t as straight forward as many PP have made it to be.

@PussInBin20 he can do it - he just can’t be bothered and thinks you’re his servant.

he runs a business - of course he can arrange to take his passport and manage to have his own friggin door key.

i honestly don’t understand how women can accept this sort of treatment. He is telling you - very bluntly - that his time is more important than yours and he thinks it’s your job to clean up his crap. There is nothing more complicated about it than that.

the dilemma for some women is that they are not financially independent- sometimes this is due to inevitable situations. But sometimes women consciously make a choice.

I have a friend who is 50 who choose to never work and be full time stay at home mum. Her husband treats her much like yours does. She can’t leave. Her husbands a prick but I do t have an awful lot of sympathy for her

I'm 99% confident that DH would manage if I wasn't around, but he would manage in a kind of shit haphazard way, forget loads of things, be late and if it was for DC then he'd let them.down. He once took DC8 to their Saturday morning activity but left their uniform and things they needed at home. I once asked him to grab a specific pair of shoes as we were going out somewhere and he brought completely the wrong ones.

So I end up thinking he's either lazy, incompetent, uncaring, thoughtless or all of these things at any given time. Except he does care, and he gets upset and defensive when I call him out. He doesn't apologise for any of this either, which would at least go some way to acknowledge that he's screwed up.

Bet all the stuff that was his and important to him would all get done and done well unless through genuine accident though right?

PP was correct he does it because he can and because he thinks you are a slave.

So I end up thinking he's either lazy, incompetent, uncaring, thoughtless or all of these things at any given time Ding! Ding! Ding! Bingo!

He doesn't really care, he just maintains that mask when he needs to, in order to keep the status quo.

He won't apologise either which doesn't surprise me in the least.

Text book crap man who wants a woman to facilitate his every need.

I just think he’s used to me doing it all which I blame myself for as I have allowed it really. The reason for this is to have everything run smoothly and good for DD and I guess I find it frustrating things not being done right.

Also if I leave things to him and he biffs up, I am the one who has to put it right.

Today we had to order lunch online and create an account which I do find a pain. Anyway he asks for a drink but then changed his mind after I had selected it and there didn’t seem to be a way of deleting it so I got frustrated and moaned. I gave the phone to him to do but he created an account and either forgot the username or password/or didn’t put upper/lower case in right place and so he couldn’t do the order, so he got frustrated and I had to take over and basically start it all again! I know it’s minor but all these things drive me slowly insane.

He doesn’t get the “mental load” thing at all or chooses to ignore it exists, probably as he doesn’t see it.

I know I am partly to blame for the situation and I don’t go around bleating about what I do for the household/DD so he probably really has no idea. I did say that he would only notice what I do, if I wasn’t here! Sad really.

@pussinBin20 this sounds so similar to me, its infuriating and depressing at the same time. Are you going along with things? Do you feel resentful at all?

Okay, you’re right, Im sorry if it seems like I was making it sound trivial, I appreciate it could have come off glib- it was more meant to be encouraging to OP. In my experience it has been relatively easy tbh, and it has worked in a few different contexts and for other couples I know with similar problems too.Hence my enthusiasm.

But it of course can be a slog and hard won. I think so many people struggle with this issue is because, like me previously, they focused on what was fair and right (e.g. making a really good case to someone of why they are not good enough/doing enough) rather than focusing on learning skills that work to build intimacy and trust again. That’s totally justified, but not always directly effective.

And my advice is only relevant advice IF it’s important for someone to fix their relationship- I’m not suggesting it should be, but the way OP’s question was phrased made me think she may want to revive rather than leave her marriage. It’s not any woman’s responsibility to be putting up with any nonsense from a SO, and there are plenty of responses here that suggest OP would be happier if she walks away, they may well be right. Fair play to you for sticking with your relationship and making it what you want it to be, sounds like it was pretty tough but hopefully worth it. I have had a difficult relationship become my ideal relationship with some (what seem to me be) pretty easy steps so I thought it might be useful to share these.

Yes, my main piece of advice is for OP to just stop doing what she doesn’t want to do, to just stop, and to not even feel obliged to get him or anyone else to do it. Also to take a leaf out of his book- plan some fun things for herself. Basically to treat herself how she wants him to treat her. That is probably the hardest part. But the rest is also about creating a good vibe between them again, by focusing on what he’s doing right. Rather than keeping score and confronting him with what’s wrong with him- just ,you know, remind him why he is actually a good decent person and why she married him. He may well be a horrible selfish person, he might just be a person craving intimacy and admiration from the woman he loves but is stereotypically crap at showing it, he’s possibly both -who knows! Only OP truly knows if he’s decent and worth the hassle.

I’m not saying it will work that way for everyone, that’s why I said in my experience. But it really was very straight forward for me in my experience, and I enjoyed it. Honestly I don’t see it as her, or women generally, being wholly responsible for “helping him to change” screw that- I see it more as - this is what I’ve found works for making my life much better- quickly. I’ve never been through a divorce but my guess is that just giving this a whirl is less hassle in the short term at least. In my case it might have been a fluke, but I only tried these strategies because I had good reason to believe they would work.

@PussInBin20 christ you need to get yourself out of there - he has really done a number on you! You’re even taking in the work of him feeling responsible for not taking responsibility.

its only sad if you accept it. It really doesn’t have to be like that. You really REALLY don’t have to put up with that shit.

What Cavvies said - it's all too easy to do stuff rather than let him doe it less well, because you have high standards but you wouldn't do that with your children- you know they have to learn.

Men aren't generally brought up to think about domestic matters, or to do stuff around the home, sadly. If they make a mess of it, they may get more frustrated or angry than a child would, so then it's easier to take over but just don't, otherwise as so many have said, the woman ends up doing everything - better than their 'D' H would have done it initially, probably but he would have learned and at least the burden is then shared.
Stuff really doesn't have to be perfect you know.

And why the heck should they get away with having hobbies when their wife/partner is run ragged?

Yes, your examples are similar to mine. It’s not that he’s deliberately horrid or nasty - just unthinking and all those other things you mention. I think perhaps a bit selfish as he never thinks about our DD’s needs really.

I do feel resentful tbh but then I wonder if I’m being totally fair as I have been doing things for so long, how can I now expect him to change?

Tonight my DD said that my DH had said I should have booked some train tickets weeks ago but when I said to her “well he could have booked them” she made a comment that he doesn’t like to do things as I will moan if he doesn’t do it how I want, which I guess is sort of true.

Maybe in his eyes he can’t win 🤷‍♀️
I have often joked that when he comes back from work, he switches his brain off and uses mine, as this is how it feels.

Not sure how to resolve it but I find myself sensitive to even the most smallest things that he does “wrong”. He would probably say I’m looking for problems, which isn’t true but I can’t help but see them.

Maybe some counselling is the way forward for both of us.

Divorced now, and co-parenting 75/25, but sadly ex continues his self-centric mode. His weekends with the kids are centred on his hobbies (thy are put in cheerleader mode) and they return to me un-bathed and with school uniforms un-laundered. At his house it’s a strict rotation of freezer dinners and take-outs. My life is better cos he’s not in it. His life is better because he only has to step up a couple of times a month )and the bar is low.) The kids are way more valued and nourished and cared for with me. Already one has opted out of life with him. There are no winners.

Honestly, for everything like this you need to just walk away and say it’s your job now, sit down and start from the beginning. Think. If it takes you all afternoon and all evening then that’s what it takes, it wouldn’t take you that long if it was a work task
and it wouldn’t end up the wrong order either so it shouldn’t here. If I have to do the order after all this then I’m ordering for everyone but you. If the order is wrong you pick your food last out of what we get and I’m pissed off.

Sorry but if he doesn't apologise he doesn't care. He's just pretending to get upset so the confrontation stops. Sorry, whilst I've never walked a step in your shoes but I've found your last updates frustrating. Your first post was bang on - he's a passenger and from your other posts it seems the DC's have picked up on it too yet your recent posts seem to be just making excuses to maintain the status quo. He won't change ergo your life won't improve - he isn't going to have a Scrooge-like epiphany and be husband and day of the year some day. It's trotted out on may posts like this but you're pretty much a single parent as it is and you're in a fairly good situation to be able to build and stronger, happier life without him.

Yes that’s because he knows very well that if he messes up then you will rush to the rescue.
Just like @PussInBin20 is describing….

But the question you should ask yourself isn’t ‘how can I manage to cope with that?’
It should be ‘WHY do I try and cope with such a crap behaviour?

Good points. As PP said I can only wait so long before DC need things done, so invariably that means I do it. For example booking a summer sports camp. DH and I talked about it, but guess who ends up booking it because I know spaces will sell out. He'd leave it another 3 weeks then wonder why its full. Same with any house jobs, it gets left to beyond the last minute all the time, I have waited and waited and eventually I just get so hacked off with waiting I do it myself. I refuse to nag or be called a nag for reminding DH about things, so we have this constant game of chicken for any job I've asked him to do. Or I just do the job myself.

This morning I planned a nice relaxing trip with just me and DC and said I'd meet DH for lunch as he was away fishing. Guess what, he showed up 20mins late, and then insisted we all go somewhere for the afternoon which we did but there was so little for DC to do where DH wanted to go that they were unbelievably bored for 2 hours. I was sorely tempted to drive off and leave him there and then.

"Game of chicken" is a very apt description.
Often followed by "I was just about to do that" from the passive partner