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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My wife is so untidy what can I do

283 replies

DadofDD · 31/05/2022 21:12

would really welcome a female perspective on this, my wife is so untidy. She leaves clutter everywhere. I wipe the worktop down come back it’s got crumbs on it. Every surface in the house has stuff pilled up on it, cupboards brimmed with papers and stuff.
We have argued over this for many years our DD is 8 and each year it’s gotten worse. It causing me serious resentment towards her. She’s a very emotional person I tried to tell her how I feel and it was a whole night of upset tears argument….I love my wife and family so much, when we’re not arguing over we get on really well…but I feel this is really pulling us apart ..what on earth can I do.?

OP posts:
CrunchyCarrot · 01/06/2022 10:38

I sympathise, OP! I am actually quite untidy myself. In my case it's down to lack of energy. I have hypothyroidism and just cannot keep on top of things. However over the past couple of years I've improved in terms of keeping on top of clutter, so here are my 'top tips' !

I found my house lacked sufficient storage space, so have invested in soft zip-up storage boxes for my bed linen (after getting rid of excess old stuff) and now I don't recognise my laundry cupboard as it's so neat and tidy. Similarly in our shed, we have bought a few cheap shelving units plus plastic storage boxes and this takes stuff off the floor and keeps it neat. The same needs to be done for my 'office' which is still in a state of mess, but one thing at a time!

I have gone through all clothes and given a lot I don't need now to charity. I try not to buy anything new without shunting out older stuff! I always run anything re my DP's clothes past him first to be sure I'm not getting rid of something he's attached to.

Paperwork is the worst thing for me. I still have bags of defunct stuff I need to shred. I try to make time for doing say 20 mins of shredding a fortnight so that I am getting through it slowly. We now have a filing system to keep the important stuff in categories, all neatly arranged on a shelf in DP's home office.

As for the kitchen, well I cleared out all old food packets past their use-bys, also any old cooking equipment I don't use.

You're going to have to take charge of the situation, OP, not by putting everything into a skip, though! You need to lead the change. I found that discussing with my DP did help, but if your DW is too emotional, then you will need to break this down into small stages. If you have, say 30 mugs but need only 6, then you need to sort though all of them with your DW and say that some must go to charity as your house simply doesn't have enough storage space. Just be firm but kind. Keep the ones she likes best, but make sure you pack up the rest for charity. Ditto for excess crockery and kitchen items (but don't try tackling all this on one day! Keep it small and less traumatic to start with). The less clutter there is, the easier it will be to keep on top of tidying what remains. Also by giving things to charity you are helping others who are less well off! I think stress this to your DW.

It's going to take time to get on top of it all, after all, it takes years to build up clutter in the first place! Just break it down into small pieces and keep as unemotional about it as possible, but firnly keep on track with reducing stuff, and do it together in a non-judgemental way. I suspect your DW will feel the better for it (eventually!) but it'll take a bit of time and probably some tears on her part to get there.

whowhatwerewhy · 01/06/2022 10:41

It sounds like she a hoarder, she will need specialist help

Lana07 · 01/06/2022 10:42

Unfortunately, some people are hoarders and it could be a kind of psychological dysfunction they have.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hoarders+full+episodes

Lana07 · 01/06/2022 10:44
elenacampana · 01/06/2022 10:46

Inklingpot · 31/05/2022 22:24

Slightly OT, but why does everyone say ‘gotten’ now?

It’s probably been seen in American literature or on American shows and has begun to feel like the norm. They use ‘gotten’ as the participle of ‘got’ over there, we use ‘got’ in the U.K when conjugating with ‘have’. (Ex English language teacher.)

Lana07 · 01/06/2022 10:46

In this case, I would establish clear basic rules she follows, or we divorce and I find a tidy person.

I would also never agree to live like that.

Eeksteek · 01/06/2022 10:46

DadofDD · 01/06/2022 08:23

To be honest things have got so bad that I cook,wash my own clothes, my daughters sometimes…I mostly clean the house as and when I can….it’s all a bit gross because I work so many hrs in the summer.

This stood out for me. Why wouldn't you generally wash your own clothes and sometimes your daughter’s? It sounds like you feel laundry should automatically be all your wife’s responsibility and you’re doing it out of desperation because she’s failing your family by doing less than her ‘share’. Whereas to me, that sounds like she already does more than her share of laundry - all her own and most of your daughter’s. That’s more than half for the family.

For a division of labour to be perceived as fair, both parties need to be able to perceive the true whole, and have the same definition of fair. In most families I know one partner has no idea that some things even need doing, let alone that their partner does them, so they aren’t accounted for in their effort tally or the total AND partners have a skewed idea of what’s ‘fair’ and (consciously or not) think that one partner ‘should’ do more because of their sex, working hours, earning availability etc etc.

Genuinely examine your expectations to see if what you are expecting is fair. In my personal experience, and anecdotally from friends, men are fine with doing fifty fifty as a couple, but expect women to do more caring for and cleaning up after children, because they are simply not conditioned by society to be responsible for other people. It’s a learned skill. Your laundry example is pretty classic (for all you listed it as example as you doing more than your fair share, and I think it’s less than half). You also mentioned crumbs after you wiped the counter. Did she just make herself a sandwich and not clean up, or did she make herself AND (or) your child lunch. In which case you cleaning up after she fed your child would be half the work of feeding your child, which should be an equal responsibility, but so often is not. That’s the difference between doing half the chores between a couple and a family.

Also consider what she is doing that just isn’t on your slate, ever. Who arranges and coordinates drops offs and pick ups, childcare and supplies, grocery shopping and cooking. Who are her friends and does she see them often? Have you ever taken your daughter for a haircut? If you did, did you notice she needed one, book it and take her, or did your wife notice that she needed a haircut before the school photographs, book it and ask you to take her with timely reminders and remember to leave the car seat in the right car? Because one of those isn’t a complete task, even if you did the visible part. Do you know when her next vaccinations are, what she needs for a school trip next week, when she’s due at the dentist and have you got a spare coin in case she loses a tooth late at night? Do you have any ideas for her birthday or presents for your families?

Again, the more adult part of what’s usually known as life admin is often more shared - banking, finding the right mortgage, booking holidays etc. but not the family part. And it still takes time and energy. It’s just the pre-children, both partners have often had a car and often a house, so know what needs doing. But maternity and paternity leave are so unequal that fathers frequently don’t pick up the load, or even the awareness of the load, of children anything like as equally as they often suppose. It has be to be said that this works well for many fathers, who (consciously or not) enjoy more protected work time, free time, social time, sleep and headspace than mothers, and who at the very least make no effort to tackle a system that benefits them and often take a more active role in preserving it. Relatively few fathers are open to changing something that gives them such advantages and many are actively engaged in preserving the status quo.

It may be that your household is one of the minority where a father is bearing an unequal load, of course. But it’s statistically unlikely. In that case your options realistically to are put up with it, relationship counselling or divorce. I think relationship counselling isn’t a bad idea, so long as you go into it looking for a solution, rather than a place to have your grievances validated.

grapewines · 01/06/2022 10:47

RibNSaucyArseCrack · 01/06/2022 09:48

Right! It would be leave the lazy bastard, he’s doing it because he knows you will do it, he doesn’t respect you as a person, pick it all up and throw it outside blah blah blah. Not one single person would be like, awww maybe he had adhd bless him. Maybe you should just do it for him. How much do you actually do around the house?

such bullshit.

Hard agree.

OP, I get this. I couldn't put up with it and would take steps to leave.

MartinReubyUnsungHero · 01/06/2022 10:50

I have an autism diagnosis and cannot keep my house tidy for live not money. I suspect I may have undiagnosed ADHD. Some of us just cannot do this - it's not laziness it's part of a disability. Only solution really is to find professional help - cleaners or people who will help to declutter and organise.

There are some good online groups for neurodivergent people who struggle with this.

toastedbagiel · 01/06/2022 10:50

But in the situation where the woman was complaining about the lazy man it's assumed she would be doing it all, in which case any criticism would be valid. That's not what's happening here.

ForestFae · 01/06/2022 10:51

MartinReubyUnsungHero · 01/06/2022 10:50

I have an autism diagnosis and cannot keep my house tidy for live not money. I suspect I may have undiagnosed ADHD. Some of us just cannot do this - it's not laziness it's part of a disability. Only solution really is to find professional help - cleaners or people who will help to declutter and organise.

There are some good online groups for neurodivergent people who struggle with this.

There’s a Facebook page called Struggle Care I think it is, which I found helpful.

Thebeastofsleep · 01/06/2022 10:51

I had a housemate/ friend like this. She was awful to live with.

She came home from 2 weeks abroad and there was a literal trail from the moment she entered the house- one shoe on the door mat, the other 2 steps in to the hallway, coat on the floor a bit further up an opened envelope on the stair, the letter from it on the floor next to the stairs, her suitcase in the lounge, clean clothes strewn on the sofa, laundry on the floor in a trail in to the kitchen. Shoes across the floor in the living room. Books and iPod on the only other chair. I came in to nowhere to sit. She left it all there for 3 weeks.

The kitchen was always messy. She'd put away half the washing up, and leave half for me to do. She'd wipe half the kitchen surface, leave half for me to do. Completely ignoring the fact I did all the hoovering, was the only one who cleaned the bathroom or mopped the floors or dusted, and did all of it, not leaving half for her.

Her paperwork was everywhere, her multiple hand bags, crisps packets, scarves strewn around where ever she last used them.

If she spilled something, she would only clean up what she could see, so if she spilled a drink, she wouldn't lift up the bread bin to wipe under it, or under the edge of the counter. She'd leave cupboard doors open all the time.

Absolute nightmare.

She's married now with kids and is no better. Her husband is a saint for putting up with her. Maybe it's your wife!

worriedparent12 · 01/06/2022 10:52

Anyone else clicked on this thread in a panic thinking their husband made mumsnet account and was writing about them? 😂😂😂

Bex5490 · 01/06/2022 10:53

I have to say that it’s quite hilarious how we have collectively diagnosed this woman with ADHD thanks to a brief description from her husband and a few pics from her messy kitchen!

Regardless of how you both ended up in this situation, you both sound unhappy and should speak to someone professionally. You must love her otherwise you wouldn’t be searching for answers but it doesn’t sound like your marriage will last unless you both get help. From your messages, it doesn’t sound like you actually know how your wife feels so maybe that’s the first step in n moving forward.

Hope you find answers and work out a solution. 😊

MrsRinaDecker · 01/06/2022 10:54

I just started listening to “a slob comes clean” podcast, after hearing it recommended on here.. I think a lot would really resonate with your wife. I think the lady who does it has ADHD, but there’s a lot in it that applies to everyone regardless.

Lana07 · 01/06/2022 10:55

Lana07 · 01/06/2022 10:44

925XX · 01/06/2022 10:55

Inklingpot · 31/05/2022 22:24

Slightly OT, but why does everyone say ‘gotten’ now?

I don't say gotten but my grandson says, trash, parking lot and side walk!

MartinReubyUnsungHero · 01/06/2022 10:56

Thebeastofsleep · 01/06/2022 10:51

I had a housemate/ friend like this. She was awful to live with.

She came home from 2 weeks abroad and there was a literal trail from the moment she entered the house- one shoe on the door mat, the other 2 steps in to the hallway, coat on the floor a bit further up an opened envelope on the stair, the letter from it on the floor next to the stairs, her suitcase in the lounge, clean clothes strewn on the sofa, laundry on the floor in a trail in to the kitchen. Shoes across the floor in the living room. Books and iPod on the only other chair. I came in to nowhere to sit. She left it all there for 3 weeks.

The kitchen was always messy. She'd put away half the washing up, and leave half for me to do. She'd wipe half the kitchen surface, leave half for me to do. Completely ignoring the fact I did all the hoovering, was the only one who cleaned the bathroom or mopped the floors or dusted, and did all of it, not leaving half for her.

Her paperwork was everywhere, her multiple hand bags, crisps packets, scarves strewn around where ever she last used them.

If she spilled something, she would only clean up what she could see, so if she spilled a drink, she wouldn't lift up the bread bin to wipe under it, or under the edge of the counter. She'd leave cupboard doors open all the time.

Absolute nightmare.

She's married now with kids and is no better. Her husband is a saint for putting up with her. Maybe it's your wife!

I do the cupboard doors thing and I think this does scream out neurodivergence. I'm sorry if people don't want to hear this but some of us do have brains that struggle to stay on task. Not completing a task because your brain is already way onto the next one is classic.

I am often surprised to return to the kitchen later to find all the cupboard doors open. I live alone.

toastedbagiel · 01/06/2022 10:56

II have to say that it’s quite hilarious how we have collectively diagnosed this woman with ADHD thanks to a brief description from her husband and a few pics from her messy kitchen!

It's not remotely funny that the default to any post about spouses is to label them. It's damaging.

CupidStunt22 · 01/06/2022 10:56

RibNSaucyArseCrack · 01/06/2022 09:48

Right! It would be leave the lazy bastard, he’s doing it because he knows you will do it, he doesn’t respect you as a person, pick it all up and throw it outside blah blah blah. Not one single person would be like, awww maybe he had adhd bless him. Maybe you should just do it for him. How much do you actually do around the house?

such bullshit.

Exactly. And they definitely wouldn't be "OMG, you're such a bitch, just do it yourself if it bothers you, not that it should bother you, you're not entitled to have any say in your own home and how it looks!"

It's fucking HARD to live with someone who won't clean up after themselves, who spreads their crap everywhere, who takes over all the space. You start to feel like you can't breath, like it's not your home, even though you're the one going around tidying up after them like a maid.

Lots of sympathy for OP.

Lana07 · 01/06/2022 10:59

British hoarders

tiredmumneedingahug · 01/06/2022 11:06

I'm your wife.

I feel so guilty but I can't help it. I live in clutter with my OCD stressed husband tidying after me.

The one thing that really really helps is an understanding cleaner. One who will clean with me and point out things to do.

I've had two of these amazing ladies in the past and my house is sparkling.

I need someone to come along side and gently help me see the clutter. I really can't see it.

I'm sure your wife feels the same. Did she grow up in a messy house? I'm ness blind as a result.

Orangesox · 01/06/2022 11:09

worriedparent12 · 01/06/2022 10:52

Anyone else clicked on this thread in a panic thinking their husband made mumsnet account and was writing about them? 😂😂😂

😂Yup!

OP - I know others have said this, but the way you talk about your wife smacks of her being neurodivergent. I have ADHD, and I am exactly how you describe your wifes organisational skills, lack of awareness about task initiation, emotional dysregulation etc, ... the difference is that my husband doesn't talk about me with contempt, have a misogynistic view that women should be the better homemaker, or do petty things like only wash his own clothes when he knows that I struggle massively with executive dysfunction.

Likewise, he is obviously neurodivergent in a different way, and has a memory like a sieve when it comes to where things live in the house, what washing settings to use on the machine, how to cook certain foods. I'm good at those things, so he might need to give me a kick up the bum to do it, but I can support him with that.

You need to separate how you feel about the situation, with whether you love your wife or not... because she isn't going to fundamentally change overnight even if she seeks diagnosis and treatment for whatever is going on, you need to work as a team and focus on each others strengths. So what if she's crap at remembering to empty the dishwasher, or can't organise a pile of papers to save her life - you're clearly quite capable of helping her with those things. If she does have ADHD, she's likely to suffer with decision paralysis, and struggle with task initiation - medication might help with this, but it doesn't always, and some people just don't get on with medication.

If the love has gone, and this behaviour is a dealbreaker for you, deal with it proactively, give her the chance to do something about it if you want to salvage the marriage, go to relationship counselling if you think that will help, but berating her or telling her that you went off to get opinions from other women about her poor home making skills instance isn't going to help, trust me on this. You don't have to hang on in a relationship that fundamentally makes you unhappy just because the other person has a disability.

Devon50 · 01/06/2022 11:40

Could she be depressed?

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 01/06/2022 11:42

Why are you scared of her getting angry OP, I agree with not touching any of her personal things but you need to declutter so things can go away in the cupboards. Let her get angry,what's she going to do?!

I've had conversations with DH about how many pens we need to keep , I
asked him to choose twenty from a pile of at least fifty, he was nearly weeping at the ones that I didn't keep.

The thing to keep in mind is that it's nothing to do with the actual clutter or pens and more how having 'stuff' is like a security blanket to some people.

I need to live clutter free for my own well being, dh's hoarding doesn't dictate how we live, I won't allow it. I have to say it's a constant battle and if the attic was boarded it would be full by the end of the week!! Ultimately any type of hoarding is selfish behaviour especially with anger involved and I agree if this was a man posters would be telling the OP just to get rid.

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