My wife is so untidy what can I do

[DadofDD]

would really welcome a female perspective on this, my wife is so untidy. She leaves clutter everywhere. I wipe the worktop down come back it’s got crumbs on it. Every surface in the house has stuff pilled up on it, cupboards brimmed with papers and stuff.
We have argued over this for many years our DD is 8 and each year it’s gotten worse. It causing me serious resentment towards her. She’s a very emotional person I tried to tell her how I feel and it was a whole night of upset tears argument….I love my wife and family so much, when we’re not arguing over we get on really well…but I feel this is really pulling us apart ..what on earth can I do.?

1. do you clean/tidy regularly or expect her to do most of it?
2. what does she say when you talk to her about it - ie a rational conversation not an emotionally charged one
3. can you get a cleaner

Really it will be impossible for anyone who hasn’t seen your home to know if you are being ott and annoying, or if your wife is genuinely creating a stressful environment through physical mess.

If the latter tho, worrying that an 8 year old is living in it.

This sounds a bit like my house. The reason it's like it in my house is because loads of paperwork comes in from school, hospital etc and I don't have time to deal with it all properly. I wipe the surfaces in the evening, not every single time someone eats something, because I don't have time.

One thing that has helped is getting a very large noticeboard to put all the letters, homework sheets etc on.

What is the split of household labour? Are you each taking 50%? Who does the planning, life admin type things?

Honestly, I grew up with a parent who struggled to throw stuff away. Piles of papers on every surface, old clothes overflowing the wardrobe, shoes or craft supplies piled up higgledy piggley - random shite basically.

It was really embarrassing as a child and I hated having friends over. Having said that I hated my parents arguing about it even more.

So I can fully understand how frustrating it is and how embarrassing it can be, however you need to work together from a non-emotional perspective for the sake of your child.

How is the housework shared between you? Do you both work similar hours in your jobs? What sort of house was your wife brought up in?

My last question comes from my own experience - I was brought up in a dirty, messy house and it's quite hard to learn to skill of keeping it clean and tidy as an adult - it doesn't come naturally as it might to someone who'd had it modelled to them in childhood.

OP - I won't bother asking about the split of duties as others have asked that already. But is there a chance that she could have undiagnosed ADHD?

I do, and I leave piles of stuff everywhere. ADHD'ers often have something called clutter blindness (as well as time blindness). So often stuff gets left out and we forget to put it away. Eventually it just becomes a fixture of the room and we don't even see it anymore. Emotional disregulation is also very common. Does she forget things easily like what she's talking about, why she went into a room etc? Bad with time and money? Perhaps it might be worth looking into. Or she could just be completely overwhelmed as a busy mum and not have the time?

She's been doing this for 8+ years -you are highly unlikely to be able to change her behaviour and I very much doubt that she's doing it to piss you off

What you might want to consider changing is your expectation of her as if you are just focusing on the negative rather than see the positives in her

She may well be doing lots of things that you don't necessarily see -maybe these are of equal value to the housework?

The stock MN answer to this is hire a cleaner.

What happens if you tidy up the papers and clutter?

My Dh was brought up in a very dirty messy house and so hes never really had a routine and doesnt see mess. So if I wasnt around he probably wouldnt wash his towels or bedding for months because it just wouldn't occur to him etc

I found a few things that help:

He does the vast majority of the cooking, washing up and food shopping. Hes terrible at putting the washing up away, he tends to get half way through and get distracted etc, but all in all it means meal planning cooking etc is never something i have to think about and i just do a bit of extra washing up and kitchen cleaning.

He washes his work clothes, i wash everything else, but if I strip the beds he remakes them (its a massive help because I have a bad shoulder) and he cant miss an unmade bed

I do the rest of the cleaning and tidying, but he tends to hoover sometimes if my shoulders playing up although hes terrible at it, ive seen him hoover round a book on the floor because he doesnt really register it as anything other than an obstacle.

So between us its fairly evenly divided but plays to our strengths (he hates being hungry where as i tend to miss meals if im not paying attention, so hes a better cook, and my attention to detail is better for tidying)

Ive also learnt to adjust my standards. The worktops get cleaned at mealtimes, if he messes them up inbetween and doesnt think to clear it up i just dont worry about it, no ones going to die because there are breadcrumbs on the worktop for a couple of hours

Also having a place for things is helpful. He would leave paperwork all over the house because thats what his parents did. All paperwork now goes into a box file for the year, so it doesnt end up piled up everywhere. There is a key and loose change bowl so he doesnt lose his keys (and neither do i) etc etc

But he is messier and sometimes it does drive me mad tidying up after him every day. But then i go to his parents and see their sofa surrounded by used tissues and chocolate bar wrappers and unopened mail and realise just how much he does try compared to how he was brought up

Also yes to a cleaner if you can afford it, we had one for a few years and it made a massive difference, because my dh is messy i use up all my energy on the tidying and dont always get as much cleaning done as i would like so having a cleaner was a bonus!

How tidy are you expecting the house to be? Averagely so, or show home standard?

Decluttering together. Watch Marie kondo and get her book. Amazing. She has to do it with you.

Well you can’t change other people, so you may need to focus on learning to live with it.

if she is chronically messy, I’d look to advice given to people with ADHD (whether she has that or not), the book below is a good start.

ask her to work with you to find simpler systems that she can use to be a bit less messy, but accept that you will also have to drop your standards

Susan C. Pinsky
Organizing Solutions for People With ADHD: Tips and Tools to Help You Take Charge of Your Life and Get Organized

What is the clutter the cupboards are 'brimming' with? Is it children's clothes/ toys?
When the children were young I found it hard to keep on top of the sheer volume of stuff related to them that passed through the house - school letters, forms, medical forms, invitations, drawings and paintings from school. Also they grew out of their toys and clothes so quickly there were always drawers full of too-small clothes that I only managed to get around to taking to school sale/ charity shop / ebay etc every few months. DH was completely oblivious to all this 'wife work' which needed doing but had to be prioritised AFTER feeding, bathing, reading with, playing with our children.
You talk a lot in your OP about TELLING your wife how unhappy you are with her, but what are you actually DOING to help? Can you help organise something? Can you set up a system? Can you help sort and take stuff out of the house?

DH complained about a pile of 'for charity shop' bags which had sat in the corner of our lounge for months and I pointed out to him that the reason they were still there was because he mostly had the car when charity shops were open, and I also needed someone to help me carry them all from the car park which was not that close to the pedestrianised shopping centre!

Slightly OT, but why does everyone say ‘gotten’ now?

Every surface in the house has stuff pilled up on it, cupboards brimmed with papers and stuff.

Is it your stuff, joint household stuff, or just hers? Whose is the paperwork? Who is responsible for the joint items?

If if is joint household paperwork, you can sort it in a big clear-out and get an organised system going, e.g. at minimum a big box to put all papers in if they can't be immediately binned.

If it is her papers, clothes and stuff, make sure she has her own designated storage and just keep chucking it all in there, or in another specified big box. Maybe help her by scheduling a few hours to help her go through her belongings and donate or bin a load.

You can't change her, but you can help her.

Because too much US TV!

She’s a very emotional person I tried to tell her how I feel and it was a whole night of upset tears argument

What was her argument amongst all the tears? Does she think you’re anal about tidiness or over-critical, or is she overwhelmed with wife/parent work, or was she using the tears to avoid the argument. What did she actually say?

ADHD? Chronically messy and overly emotional - ticks a couple of very large boxes!

This is the article that really resonated with me and partly led to me getting my diagnosis....

www.clinical-partners.co.uk/insights-and-news/adult-adhd-aspergers/item/adhd-in-women-why-is-it-so-undiagnosed

If there is clutter everywhere, then it means that the clutter is homeless.

If everything had a place, that was accessible and organised, then the clutter items could be put in their place easily and quickly. Sounds like you need to go through your whole house together room by room, chuck out stuff wherever possible and organise the rest of it so that it is quick and straightforward to put away.

A cleaner isn't going to be any use for clutter - how does the cleaner know where to put it and plus the cleaner would come to clean.

Yep, I've never got on top of housework. Definitely have adhd.

My DH is great. Being shamed for it is unhelpful. The mess is often organised, it's just not obvious. 😁

DH would pick up stuff lying on the side in the kitchen (e.g. kids graded swimming certificate/music certificate etc) and say "where does THIS go?" and I'd say, "I've no idea, which file did you set up for certificates?"
He soon got the point. Why was it solely MY responsibility to deal with all OUR children's admin? (We were both working).

@jaffacakesareepic

"So between us its fairly evenly divided but plays to our strengths (he hates being hungry where as i tend to miss meals if im not paying attention, so hes a better cook, and my attention to detail is better for tidying)"

Really good suggestions especially the playing to our strengths bit. Also any decluttering and routines help.

I used to be awful with my keys but I'm much better now there is a hook for them.

Big noticeboard also good.

Good luck. Its difficult. I am by nature messsy but hate mess and love absolute tidiness, sort of one extreme of another. DH is less chaotic and tidies as he goes more but is content with 80% done. It's hard to find a middle ground with different approaches in a marriage. I sympathise and would find a very messy person hard to live with as being tidy is one way I cope with all that life chucks at me.

OP, do you by any chance have a little OCD?

I would do a chucking out session so you have less stuff and therefore more room to store stuff you do want and need to keep.
Can you write a letter to her saying I love you, tell me what I can do to help practically....
Hubby and I find that helpful sometimes when it's a difficult subject that often ends in one of those horrible draining circular conversations that usually ends with me crying and him shutting down! Just allows you to take something in calmly.

I do agree with other posters , for your child's sake it's important that you can figure something out, even if that's doing the tidying yourself, for her sake. She will ultimately be the one most affected.

Another one who came to ask if she might have adhd.

I have adhd and I'm very like your wife. Unfortunately, I think my husband has ocd tendencies so we are destined to drive each other nuts in this particular area of life! We both make a huge effort to understand and tolerate the other!