AIBU Would you be worried about this friendship?

[Lucyofthemichealcar]

Background:
Married for 11 years and together for 17.
H very outgoing, fun loving and flirty but never had concerns. Similar personality to me, so a bit of flirty banter is fine so long as we both respect the line.
Since married neither or us go out as much and since kids deffo not.
Both of us have male and female friends. Being friendly with a woman doesn't bother me but the dynamic between these two has always seemed different but cannot put finger on it.

H and his work friend.
I would say she definitely fits into my H's 'type'. They teach together. They are in different departments so it does not sound as if they speak every day or every week but they do seem to catch up face to face at lunch or over messenger if it has been a few weeks. She goes back to the US every summer and as far as I know they go weeks then with no communication so they are not always in each others pockets but it seems in the school they are very much viewed as a pair, so get paired up to chaperone school events and over the years they have organised several trips together as they both say if they are stuck with colleagues for a week it needs to be someone they get on with and like and apparently because they trust each other to organise and not mess things up when carting around 50 odd teenagers. Looked at messages from her when I was in the throes of pregnant paranoia and the chat is friendly but mundane. Not even flirtatious. She asks after me and H about her partner. The tone is how he talks to all his other friends. We have had her round for dinner and she has also done the same and we have went for drinks together. All very nice and above board. Done the odd favour like making us a whole load of meals when our kitchen was getting renovated and doing a food shop when we had covid or helping with looking after cat when we were away but I just can't shake a feeling she does it all to look good to H. She is very American and brings round baking, goes all out at christmas and since I have known her has always given me and the kids gifts (all our birthdays are in Late Nov/Dec so they are birthday/xmas gifts). Her and H also always exchange birthday gifts but they are stupid cheap items as part of a running joke from work. She seems keen to be friends with me too and suggested going for a wine or doing a gym class but as I said something always seems off and never felt entirely comfortable around her in the 9 years her and H have been friendly.
She has a BF of 12 years but they have never married and don't cohabit which seems strange.

Why am I concerned?
Aside from being pregnant and crying at the drop of a hat, what has made me question it all is that three weeks ago my H stayed at her house overnight. She got a phonecall at work to say her mum had passed back in the states. Her partner was away on business and she had a meltdown at work. H brought her back to ours but she said she wanted to be at home, pack and get the first flight home. H took her back to her place. He came back after dropping her off and asked me if I minded him staying to keep an eye but i think he had pretty much made up his mind while I said yes or not. He stayed the night in her spare room and then drove her to the airport at 3am. At the time I did feel like she could have reChed out to other friends but i suppose if that was me I would be all over the place too. She and her BF came by a few days ago with a restaurant voucher for the two of us to say thank you for being there for us. We have two kids and I am seven months pregnant with our third. Is it hormones or should I be worried?

H sensed I wasn't okay when he came back after dropping her off and I said how I felt and he said there was and never had been anything between them that I could check through messages etc if it put my mind at ease but I don't know. Have asked friends in the past and they have said it is a bit of an unusal one but probably because as a society we generally are uspicious of male female friendships unless they have been sustained through childhood and adolescence.

AIBU?

Genuinely, can you please show where the DH is enmeshed with this woman? Or where she's attempting to force her way into the marriage. I feel like I must have missed something.

OP I am American this woman is an interloper. There is no American gift giving culture that makes her actions not super inappropriate. Maybe if she was a super Christian from the deep south or a Mormon from but other than that this is seriously crossing boundaries and you are right to have your hackles up.

Yes, you are.

There’s a lot of Americans out there. You cannot possibly speak for them all, as I cannot for my fellow Englishmen.

My SIL is American and she can be very generous, seem dramatic and over the top (from an English raised perspective). She sends us gifts sometimes, just because.

I know other Americans who are the opposite. Funny isn’t it?

Op, you don't like it so your DH should respect your feelings, however from everything you've posted, she does sound like a lot of Americans I came across when I studied / lived there (I spent multiple years living in different states, so know full well that everyone in America is different, however she sounds very typical of a lot I met).

I don't think you've anything to worry about from her end, but your DH should respect how you feel and back off from her if it's making you so upset.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of friendships you have made and there are a few things which I don't think you have any level of understanding of. 1. She is American, that makes her different to you and I have over the years being an Expat, met many who would be just as generous and thoughtful gift wise - we Brits are very reserved by comparison. 2. You mentioned your husband had worked abroad - he therefore understood what it was like for this women when they met and treated her with the kindness he had either received from others whilst abroad or how he would have liked to have been treated. If you have never lived abroad you just wouldn't understand. 3. You say it isn't like the other female friendships he has because you are also friends with them - this woman has tried desperately to befriend you over a number of years and you seem to be the one blocking that.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of friendships you
have made and there are a few things which I don't think you have any
level of understanding

I think the op has had her fill of understanding, she"s had enough and after 9 years has come to the end her rope, quite clearly, irrespective of her being pregnant.

Can any woman on here who is married and has children honestly say their husbands have comforted another woman, stayed the evening, slept in the back bedroom and driven her to the airport, who they work with.
Do any of you open the door and find your husband's colleague standing there with a cake for him, presents for the kids and bringing round spa vouchers to pacify you whilst she commandeared your husband for the weekend. He told her she was 5 months pregnant at the end of their weekend, why not tell her before so she could say oh I'm sorry, I'll ask someone else.
That's on her husband, and I feel he is not shutting this friendship down enough, it's triangulation.

Being American doesnt excuse her ignorance, you are all talking as though this level of friendship is normal for a married man with three children, well it's not, she's had more than 9 years to cultivate frienships yet she's clinging onto this union like a limpet. Visiting his mother, do any of your husband's female colleagues visit your MIL, christ it's hard enough forging relations with your MIL but to have this gushing American dote on your partner to his mother, really ?
Nobody would be in the slightest bit arsed?

The fact is he should have never allowed her to become so close to him as to be her primary support in England. It's not fair on op, this woman is either immensly stupid for not understanding op's reluctance to be friends, or highly manipulate and devious, which one is it.

It is not a friendship that has grown organically between all three of them, she is a colleague and as such primarily a friend of her husbands and as such the woman should respect his home life and the fact op may not want an attractive American woman doting on her husband, and that letter shows she dotes.

I don't buy the vunerable, sweet woman at work act who needs protecting.

This will go on, her husband has now said he will not give up the friendship, even if op does not want to be friends with her, do you think this woman will back off now because I don't think so.

If it becomes known to her that op doesn't like her she's going to be pleased as punch that op's husband has chosen to remain besties.
The pick me dance is already in full swing.

@Onthedunes the language you use in your post is so telling, gushing, dote, limpet. Jesus christ you evidently have your own issues here. You have used a lot of conjecture here as well when I think even the OP has provided reasons for each of the things the woman has done that don't make her a threat to their marriage. I feel OP has provided her view of events and purposefully described them to make this woman look bad vs what actually has happened. If you look at her first post vs her most recent she has got meaner with each post which means she is enjoying having people back her up when she knows fine well deep down this is nothing, she just doesn't like her husband having a female friend. That is fine but she should admit that to her husband rather than invent some pretext in her mind.
This woman has been in a relationship of her own for 12 years, we have no idea if she has other friends and perhaps she leans on them as much. She may well shock horror have other male friends. Even OP said her husband and his friend don't talk for months when she is away, what do you think she is doing crossing off the days on a calender. She moved abroad, doesn't need to live with her partner, evidently she is quite independent. I don't believe she is also pacifying his wife with gifts. OP said herself they weren't telling people she was pregnant so that is why he did not and when she was told she felt bad. Everything this lady has done has been twisted. I hope she comes across this thread to find out someone she has been nice to for years and who has been nice back, is in fact two faced.

@hotsouple I'm referring to many Americans with whom I am good friends. You can't possibly claim to know all American cultural trends and habits. After I posted I reviewed this thread and topic with my American wife, and she agreed with me 100%.

If you look at her first post vs her most recent she has got meaner with
each post which means she is enjoying having people back her up when
she knows fine well deep down this is nothing, she just doesn't like her
husband having a female friend

I don't think op is enjoying this at all, she is very clearly upset, her distress is palpable and yes I do not think she likes him having this female friend. Fact... in fact so bloody obvious I'm sure this woman must have picked up upon it hense her gifts and the letter.

I know my reasons for defending op, what are your reasons? what does it matter if their friendship wanes, what is it to you, the wife should be happier, she has 2 children with one immenently on the way, I should imagine op's mental health far exceeds the importance of his colleague. I do not understand your insistance either.

If op is unhappy then her husband should be prioritising her, she sounds level headed to me, putting up with a woman who she feels is attracted to her husband and feels that could be reciprocated by him, she's clearly had enough.
Having to hear gossip at school, children talk yes but I'd be betting the other colleagues have picked up on this and feel empathy for his wife, she feels humilliated.

This woman's confidence has grown through her friendship and affiliation with this man and unfortunately his wife's has waned, but clearly you think for some reason she's a killjoy, an insecure needy wife and a two faced cow.

No woman should be in a possition to think that about another man''s wife, he's not doing his job if he makes the mother of his children feel that bad, he shoulld be protecting her feelings, her reputation and her mental health.

Who gives a shit about his colleague, she's a grown woman with a partner, let her lean on him.

I do not wish op to be gaslighted, by this woman, by her husband and by insistant posters who also have their own issues and agenda's, nothing in it for me, just a post to tell op that some others too would be unhappy and not to be bullied by people, let her know she's not going crazy and start having the confidence to assert some boundaries that make her feel more secure.

People shouldn't shame her into feeling uncomfortable for the rest of her days about this situation.

Maybe nice people just exist in the world … TBH, I think she sounds lovely, and I am pleased that she is popular and has lots of friends.

I have friended people on SM shortly after meeting then because I like the them, nothing wrong with that.

What does the OP the want ? It’s like something from a playground .. Is she going to tell her DH to not talk to this woman at work (seems that they have little contact outside), to leave the staff-room if she walks in? To see the Head and say he can’t go on any trips she’s on - it’s just bizarre.

OP just sounds very very very jealous of someone who is gregarious, popular, attractive, good company etc . The acid is practically leaking out of my phone.

Oh OP, I don't think you're an unpleasant person but you're not coming across well here. It feels like you've blown this up in your head, fuelled by pregnancy hormones, and now this woman can't do right for doing wrong. You'll find fault whatever she does now.

I've been there, I used to suffer from pathological jealousy when I was younger and my poor DH was a saint to put up with me and my stupid suspicions at times, quite frankly, so while not exactly the same I do have some empathy for you. But you're going to end up alienating your DH over this.

I do think that they need to be alive to pupils picking up on their friendship and manage this more appropriately in school. While they can't control how their students feel about them, they should make it clear that it's disrespectful to you and to her BF to voice their feelings in ways that it gets back to you.

It's a shame that you don't feel able to respond to her overtures of friendship because I think it is mostly just a clash of culture - friendly outgoing American and naturally more reserved Brit (I assume you're British) - but I think you've backed yourself into a corner of suspicion and are hunkering down in there.

Maybe when the baby is here, you've bonded and your hormones are more settled you can read back through this thread with a more objective eye and see where you've been unreasonable. Good luck for a trouble-free birth.

@DixonD I am very generous, dramatic, over the top and a big gift giver, "typical American" but there is no way I would ever give another woman's husband this much attention. She met his mother. It's fucking weird and it's not just her "being American."

@Innocenta I'm not saying there is an overarching American culture, I'm saying giving another woman's husband this much attention is inappropriate regardless of culture and cannot be chalked up to cultural differences.

It doesn't sound like there's any romance there at all.

I'd be happy for my husband to help out anyone in need and the dead mom airport trip would not be a concern. He'd probably do it for any of his colleagues if asked?

However, the letters, presents and spa vouchers from her would have me spitting feathers. It smacks of "I can take your man if I want to, but lucky for you I don't want to". I'd be like: "No love, You're not Mahogany Lox (or Jolene if she's over forty); he just drove you to Gatwick in our Ford fucking focus".

She has inserted herself into your family, but she is not family, or even a family friend.

I understand where you are coming from OP. She is too enmeshed. Something has got your spidey senses tingling. Based on that you're now getting irritated by her ways.

Yeah, I’d not like it at all. You gnome the cool wives and mudslingers, there’s something off and OTT about the whole thing.

Kudos for ignoring all the rational advice telling you you're being unreasonable 🙄

You just don't like her and sound more awful with every post.

There is nothing in any of that that suggests anything in any way inappropriate is going on.
However, as your intuition is ringing bells, it's entirely possible that, knowing your H as well as you do, you've picked up signals from him that he's attracted to her.
Not always, but more often than not ime, when a man invests heavily in a friendship with an attractive woman, he has some feelings for her. Not necessarily that he'd act on, just 'if things were different...' type thing.
But as there's nothing there to indicate it's even reciprocated, quite the opposite given her behaviour, let alone acted upon, there's not a lot you can do about it realistically.

@Lucyofthemichealcar your thread sounds eerily similar to mine so much so that several people have messaged me to tell me about it.
I would say follow your instincts but be prepared for not liking the fall out.
My H and his OW who I had unlike yourself made an effort to be friends with were intimate with each other prior to us getting married. They have since had a solid friendship for near on 6 years which they both profess to being completely platonic. However even if I take them at their word my husband is deeply in love with this OW and I do think if not in love the OW cares immensely for my H. As someone said if your H has feelings for this friend but does not act on them she will still be taking a part of his head and heart and you need to be prepared to accept that or kick off and deal with the consequences of issujng an ultimatium because even if he cuts contact etc if they work together they will still see each other etc and by blocking all contact you just make it something forbidden. I would therefore suggest you calmly talk to your husband about how you feel so he is at least aware how his actions are coming across. If he gets defensive then it is probably a sign not that something had happened but that you have hit a nerve of him caring a bit more than he should.
If I am being entirely honest this sounds more like the early days of when my H had his OW back in his life so catch it now other wise this will continue for years and may well build into something as it has done for my H.
That being said had she not been with my husband which caused all those niggling doubts my H's OW could have become a very close friend of mine. If there is nothing there then perhaps you can get over the jealously and extend friendship to her as if your husband likes her it is highly likely you will too and you could become friends provided nothing has actually happened.

Spoke to DH again and he just once again shook his head.
He then came home later in the week and said they were now planning for trips next year and he and friend and two others are planning a trip to New York for senior pupils. I told him there was no way he was going with her and that it was unfair for him to leave me at home with three children while he went off on holiday especially to New York where I have been desperate to visit. A huge argument broke out about me considering a trip with 40+ seniors being a holiday and that I could not 'forbid' him to do anything and then it got round to her. I'll admit I let loose and was very angry but I just had to let it out. We have not spoken in 4 days and I am hell bent I will not give in.
He rarely shouts but he was very angry this time.
He reiterated nothing was going on or ever had and that we did not need to socialise with her and I did not have to be her friend but he was not just going to 'ditch' a friend due to me being insecure.He tried to blame it on my pregnancy which infuriated me as he is absolutely shifting the blame from the actions and behaviour of himself and her.
When I pointed out some of the points other posters made here he told me I was being paranoid and ridiculous. He would get on great with some of the 'too cool for school' posters on this thread who make out they would tolerate anything even they would follow their husband to a lapdance club and hand him the money.
He said I was more than welcome to look through any mode of communication to satisfy any concerns but he was not going to pander to my jealous nonsense even for a casual friendship because frankly it would set a precedent that I could kick off and he would give in.
He has slept in the spare bedroom all this week as he is apparently furious with my behaviour. I was quite upset when he said he could not even look at me because of all the things I said.
The problem is his reaction just proves he is so invested in this. If he didn't care about her he wouldn't have bothered about me calling her manipulative or that she is emeshing in our lives.
Personally I don't think it is unreasonable to ask him to not have any contact unless necessary at work if it makes me this unhappy.

@Lucyofthemichealcar

How is she enmeshed? You've said yourself she has very little to do with him outside of work, that there's been a few occasions which you and her partner have been present at over a number of years.

I think your husband is upset that you're trying to control what he does and who he can be friends with. It's not about what you've said about his friend, but how he feels you don't trust him. He had every right to feel that way. He sounds hurt and obviously has nothing to hide.

You've allowed some posters on this thread to validate your thoughts and thrown down demands. Far more people thought there was nothing concerning in any of this and you've just ignored them, or even considered any of their views.

This woman really isn't enmeshed, nor has she done anything manipulative. It's such a shame it's blown up like this. Perhaps try to talk calmly to your husband without accusation.

No, i think they sound like they are just friends and not friends with extra benefits. you have already said theres no flirting and shes made efforts to befriend you.
I think on this occasion, your hormones are playing a part in making you a bit paranoid.

Oh dear, I've just read the thread from the start to your latest update OP.

I'm not saying you're wrong to have alarm bells ringing, but unfortunately I think you handled it the wrong way. I'd have focused my responses on the fact he thinks it's ok to put himself forward for a school trip without checking with you first.

I think you need to rewind somewhat on this. Tell him you do trust him but you feel anxious as you don't have much couple time together and obviously she hasn't had DCs. I'd focus on trying to make time for the two of you as that will build your relationship together.