Sad about no proposal - 6 years and baby on the way

[AmelieBear]

Me and my boyfriend have been together for 6 years, when we first got together he used to hint about proposing all the time. He even asked me once when drunk and I said of course but only if he asked me sober :) that was 5 years ago now. I have always said to him I would only want him to propose just to know he meant it/more romantic. We agreed a while ago now that as we had always wanted kids we would try after I turned 35, and now we have a little one on the way (I’m 16 weeks). I’ve never been desperate for marriage but always made it clear if he asked me I would say yes. We’ve also talked before about how much sense it makes legally/financially when we have both a baby and house. But it just never happens. I forget for ages, like I said I was never crazy for a wedding but I just assumed we would naturally have a low key one one day, but then something will happen, tonight it was 2 people on TV talking wistfully about their honeymoon, and I ended up in tears because I realised I will never get to have that proper baby free honeymoon I once just assumed I would get one day. Sometimes I convince myself he can’t love me anymore.

What do I do? Or how do I not feel shit? Or has anyone done a wedding and really really good honeymoon with a baby in tow?
should I just give up/get annoyed at him/give him an ultimatum? Am I being unreasonable to feel this crap?

I just think maybe I haven’t put enough pressure on him ...

It sounds as if you couldn't have been clearer about what you want; the difficulty is that he doesn't want the same thing or it would have happened by now

The choice of the pregnancy before the marriage was absolutely yours to make, but not the one I'd have picked precisely because of the position you're in now.
As PPs have said he doesn't need to marry you because he's got everything he wants without it - everything that is except for responsibility for you if you split, which he may well have factored into his decision

Since babies can be like a bomb in even the most settled relationship, I'd go with the excellent advice to think and plan mainly for yourself and DC-to-be, which in practical terms means hanging onto the job, the flat and whatever else will support you if he doesn't

OP - I'm so sorry. I understand, it feels like shit (I'm in a similar-ish situation, no baby but it still feels like shit)

I still haven't seen you say why you won't propose to him.

If you want to be married, and you want to be sure of his love and commitment to you, then why not you do the big, romantic proposal? His answer will tell you everything you need to know.

Otherwise this is a bit like a case of the ostrich putting its head in the sand.

I still haven't seen you say why you won't propose to him

From several posts, OP seems to feel that she doesn't want to come across as "twisting his arm" - not that it's possible anyway as you can't force someone to marry

IMO it's just as likely that she doesn't want to be refused, or more likely be told yes only for the excuses and delaying tactics to multiply, since that would make his position all too clear and put an end to the dreams that marriage will ever happen

Honestly I think you need to sit down and explain to him that you want to be married, give the reasons why it's important to you and then offer to book the registry office. Not accusingly just calmly, if he loves you he will understand why this is so important to you and agree.
You shouldn't have to pressure someone to marry you, they should be desperate to.
If he still doesn't want to marry then you've got a decision to make.

And as an aside don't have him pay your mortgage, as he can prove he paid it he would likely have a claim on the property.

Indeed. That's what I meant by the ostrich reference.

@AmelieBear He’s paying half the mortgage

How much is your mortgage each month? Does he pay any of the utility bills, council tax etc? He’s getting a better deal than renting. Why would he marry you when he can have a baby and live at his girlfriend’s place for cheap and therefore keep most of his money for himself? When the baby is here he needs to pay 2/3 of everything seeing as you have a far lower wage and won’t be able to work.

OP, does he realize that if you die before registering the birth he is not legally the child's father and will have enormous extra stress just to get to a point where he can take his own baby home?

Tell him this and then pick up the phone and say, "I'm ringing to book appointments to give notice and get married, stay here so I can book a time you're free".

He’s paying half my mortgage and bills and has no legal claim on my property

If you pay money towards another person's mortgage, then you automatically have a claim towards the property. It's the test: has money or money's worth been contributed towards the purchase of a house. Otherwise, unmarried people don't, no.

If the aim is that he shouldn't gain a share, you need emails or some other evidence of shared intention to the contrary. Otherwise, he could swan off in a few years, and you'd owe him some of the house while all he owed you was child maintenance.

Because he can't pull the shitty "I'm traditional" nonsense if he wint marry you. Your surname only, unless you are a married couple before the baby is born. Double-barrelling only ponders to this nonsense. No ring, no 'king'

It's not really about why a proposal is important to some women. It's about why, in circumstances where it's evidently not going to happen in the way they want, people sometimes still place such value on the concept that it's actually detrimental to their interests.

Basically, wanting a proposal is one thing. Ending up in a position where you've waited for years and had DC without having a proper discussion or making a serious plan because you wanted one is quite another.

Unfortunately the laws of this country aren’t quite up to step with the more liberal idea of having kids and not getting married and you have less security. Eg. You do not have the same rights if you are the parent of a child of someone who dies as you do if you are married, even if you live together. You are not entitled to widows benefit, you are not their “next of kin” and often not entitled to life insurance unless they have specifically overridden it. It is less secure

It's not really about the laws not being good enough. Marriage is a positive, active step - it's a legal contract and not something that you should just be able to slide into by virtue of having lived together for a while - if it were, how would people who definitely don't want to get married opt out of that marriage-by-stealth? If you aren't married to someone, you aren't their widow. I think the law is fair in this respect because it certainly isn't difficult to remedy the situation.

The fact is that intentions and proposals mean fuck all. They're pretty words. Marriage is so much more than that, and if he loves you and wants to make sure that he's looking after you and your child, he would understand it too and not be fobbing you off with vague promises of proposals at some unspecified future point.

The thing with changing the laws so unmarried couples are treated more like married ones is that it takes away rights as well as granting them. It's a complex issue.

Absolutely this. You cannot be given legal rights for no reason. It is wrong. People could lose everything if they let someone stay with them for a while. Absolutely madness to say living together is the same as marriage. It isnt.

Your first paragraph misses the point I think. Marriage is much more than a legal safety net yes, I don’t think I said it wasn’t. But it’s criminal that so Many young unmarried parents do not realise the financial issues they will face if one of them dies suddenly. That there’s support for them if they were married from the government and nothing if not and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. So many people have no clue, including people who have commented in this thread. There’s campaigns ongoing to change the law. But in the meantime if you have kids you need to get married. The CPAG is working on it cpag.org.uk/welfare-rights/legal-test-cases/bereavement-support-payments-unmarried-parents
But this and there being “common law marriage” (spoiler, it doesn’t exist) are 2 of the most harmful pieces of missing info or misinformation out there, especially for women.

You need to heed some of the advice on here OP quickly, you are potentially going from a strong position to a weaker one.

You've spoke about marriage and it hasn't happened, I wouldn't be believing him paying more of the mortgage when you're on mat leave. It's all on his terms.

i know he does love me, I just think maybe I haven’t put enough pressure on him, because I felt I shouldn’t, and he has felt there is no rush.

It's not pressure, it's being clear what you want. If you can't be honest then your relationship will ultimately suffer.

Either ask him to marry you or tell him he's got 3 months to propose and explain why it matters to you. If he loves you then it will matter to him.

I think you’ve missed some important context. I personally was talking about if someone dies and you have children together, not if you split up after living together, that would be madness. Not many people realise that currently there is NO support for unmarried bereaved single parents, whereas if you are married there is widow’s support allowance. There’s a few campaigns ongoing to get the law changed, but in the meantime there’s Loads of people who have become very overly relaxed about marriage when they have children. Imagine your partner, say of 10 years, possibly the main wage earner, dies suddenly and you are left alone with a child or children, grieving and financially struggling. There is help you could have got but you can’t because you didn’t have the piece of paper. I’ve heard so many people with kids say “it’s just a piece of paper”… it’s actually not. There’s also work related insurance which often won’t be paid out to you if you aren’t married, you have to go through the courts to access it. That’s really awful that so many people don’t realise that’s how it works.

But it’s criminal that so Many young unmarried parents do not realise the financial issues they will face if one of them dies suddenly

I agree. And I would like to see the basics of the legal differences between marriage/CP and cohabitation as a routine part of SRE teaching in schools.

Even if they don't remember all the detail, at least they'll get the general idea that legal status makes a significant difference

Some people are really missing the point here.

If the OP wanted to get married and that's all there was to it, of COURSE she could propose to him, but that's not the only issue here. She wants to feel like this is a mutual decision, that he actually wants to marry her as well.

he never tells me a reason other than not the right moment, or gets all coy and says he will do it “one day

Sorry OP but from this and snippets of your other posts I would be very surprised if you ever got married now. Like someone else said, he had you, a place to live with you, and a baby. He's basically ticked all boxes without having to marry you.

Some men do this. It's fucking rotten. They wait and wait, knowing that one day, their partner will get so desperate for a baby and worried about their biological clocks that they will have kids with them anyway. Even though fertility does decline in men from age 30, it's not the man who has to carry the baby so the woman has to consider that as well. They know this, and they know if that if they keep stringing her along, she'll probably be the first to crack.

Your situation was a bit different because it sounds like it was a mutual decision to try after 35, but you've still had a baby either because you assumed marriage would happen, or because you wanted a baby so much that being an unmarried mother was a price you were willing to pay on some level.

I wouldn't give the baby his surname at all, not even a double-barrelled one. It would be a fucking cheek if he did expect this. You are putting yourself in harm's way to have this baby. It could be your health that's affected. If you think you're going to be more financially vulnerable due to not being married and he's not enthused about addressing this, then no, the child is not getting his surname in my view.

Ive not missed anything. I know all of that. Thats why i got married before having children. Rights come with the legal contract of marriage. Without that you have very little. It isnt an unknown fact. People just choose to ignore it.

You say you didn’t expect to be 4 months pregnant and not married.

But, OP, you decided to get pregnant knowing full well you weren’t married or even engaged. So, maybe this issue isn’t actually that important to you deep down. And really, you find it perfectly acceptable to be having a baby and not be married - otherwise, you wouldn’t have gotten pregnant.

On the other hand, can you tell your partner how much this means to you, and clearly say ‘I really want us to be married before the baby comes and would like us to book XYZ/registry office in June please’. Take the hassle out of it and he might not be so reluctant.

If it’s any consolation, we got married a few years ago (no guests - as was our choice) and haven’t been able to have a honeymoon over lockdown, and now have a baby on the way. We went camping for ours, and the campsite lady gave us some marshmallows as a honeymoon gift 😂

I think maybe you’ve been swept along by unrealistic expectations imposed on us by the media. You don’t have to be married to have a baby. It’s not the norm to have a big extravagant honeymoon.

You’re doing just fine OP, enjoy.

I may be missing the point. You completely understand the financial and legal reasons for getting married. He knew you wanted to be married pre kids. You both agreed that at 35 you would start trying for a family. So you stopped contraception and he didn’t propose. You didn’t tell him that stopping contraception came with your need to be married. Why? I get you want a proposal as you want him to want to marry you, to take the initiative. After 6 years he knows exactly how you feel and doesn’t give a shit imo … if he loves you, even if marriage doesn’t add anything to you relationship in his opinion, he must know it does for you???? If he knows then his needs are being met and he doesn’t care enough about yours.Honestly the proposal time has come and gone, you need to tell him he’s out of order and you are worth more. I’d leave tbh and he’d have to be really convincing to get me back. And I’d not be double barrel the surname because quite frankly it shouldn’t be needed!

I dont agree with people saying hes not interested in marriage because he hasnt proposed in 6 years. I had been with my partner 8 years before he proposed. We have now been together 11 years, married for 20 months and have a 2 month old little boy.

So….. you got married before getting pregnant?