Page 9 | Losing my mind - Sex row

BounceQueen · 2022-05-05T08:51:15+00:00

Ok I feel like I am losing my mind here, my partner steadfastly refuses to accept that he is in the wrong to the point I am doubting myself. So I am here for a sense check. I had a doctors appointment yesterday that I have been very anxious about. I have mentioned several times that I feel anxious about it so he knows. It's an issue he has been supporting me with so he knows all about it. The night before this appointment he caused a row because and I quote here "We only ever have sex when you want it" Bearing in mind we had sex 24 times in April and in the 7 days in the run up to this row we had sex 5 times. Of the times we didn't one was because he had a bad back and I spent a good half an hour giving him a back rub and lots of affection. So we spent the entire morning in the run up to the appointment arguing when i wanted to approach it calmly and prepare a list of the things I wanted to say. I am really annoyed and think that he shouldn't have caused a row over sex when I needed emotional support and he could have waited if he genuinely felt he had a point (I think he doesn't have a point but that's irrelevant). He is saying that we had a row because of my attitude and I have been stand offish which could well be the case because I have been on my period so sensitive anyway and also been worrying about this appointment. If he had raised that then I would be less annoyed but he didn't, he caused a row over sex. I am not wrong here am I. he is adamant that it is all my attitude and he wasn't in the wrong!

PragmaticWench · 06/05/2022 10:18

It's good to see you standing up for yourself OP and deciding where your boundaries are. You seem to have good instincts for what the argument was actually about and that he's now being disingenuous about the real issue.

InkyPinkyParlez · 06/05/2022 10:20

I haven't walked in your shoes but I can't follow why missing the gym would mean he's sleeping with someone else. Do you mean he's going out tonight and not telling you where? If so, yes it sounds like he's deliberately making you feel insecure.

From what you wrote about skipping the gym I thought maybe it was about making sure he gets sex with you tonight, because you'll have no excuse of being too busy/too late etc. I hope I've misunderstood. No means no, always.

No normal person cheats on their partner because they haven't had sex for 5 days. Ever. Even threatening it is in no way the action of someone who loves, values and respects you, is it?

GroggyLegs · 06/05/2022 10:22

Gym obsessed.
Sex obsessed.

Is he taking something? Testosterone? Steroids?

Sorry if this has been asked, im only keeping up with your replies OP.

Also, it's not like things have changed, sounds like he's always been creepy had a high sex drive & you've been happy to accommodate it.
But something has happened to change your perspective on it all and you've been given an insight into where YOUR physical & mental wellbeing ranks compared to his fragile masculinity 'needs'.

CloudPine · 06/05/2022 10:23

Let's review some of the statements you've made about him.

I feel like I am losing my mind
He thinks I am being ridiculous
"We only ever have sex when you want it"
if I say no one night he is guaranteed it the next,
Once he has got that idea in his head he is very convincing and if I didn't keep track I would actually believe him.
when I came back the next day he took all his stuff
I think it is where a lot of his sex issues come from, the fact she cheated on him with another woman
I don't think I want to break up with him,
so my mind automatically jumps to he is going to be sleeping with someone else
He does have form for cheating, not with me but every other relationship he has had

All this because he didn't support you when you needed it.
He's playing mind games and that makes him abusive. Please go no contact for a bit so you can let this all sink in. You are clearly processing it, and trying to erect healthy boundaries, but you can't do this with him talking to you.

totallyoutnumbered · 06/05/2022 10:25

You want sense talking into you?
He spends hours in the gym every day. He withholds, love and support. He's cheated on all his previous partners (but not you, you'd better keep putting out though)
You have a fucking spreadsheet for sex.
Your first thought when he says he's missing the gym is that he's shagging someone else.
This thread boils my piss on your behalf.
This relationship is every type of wrong. You haven't answered about what makes him amazing but I see you mentioned he's your "cheerleader". It's utterly mental. The last thing I want to do is come across as a bloody show off but I think it's important for you to know
What a healthy and loving relationship looks like so here goes. Baring in mind I left a narcissist husband, spent 4 years single before I felt vaguely ready to even know I'd hit my self esteem and boundaries back to a healthy place. My DP is far from perfect but this is what mine looks like.
I am in the middle of a health scare. My DP looked utterly broken when we got the news. He's been a total champ, attending appointments and checking in with me throughout the day. A close friend of his called to check in on me and said DP was upset on a night out worrying about me and couldn't contemplate me not being around. You get the drift.
Hours at the gym? My EXH did this. He "needed" it to switch off and relax. Meanwhile, I raised 2 kids alone.
I'm not here to judge cheaters per se. In our 20s both me and DP cheated on exes when you're not taking life too seriously ( people get hurt though and that's something we both regret). But I know he's out distance between himself and several of these men who haven't grown up and are now cheating on their wives. He's told them it doesn't sit right with him and can't sit by and not say that it's wrong. My oldest teen was chatting to him the other day about cheating. He simply told him, don't be a selfish dick and hurt other people. Just do the right thing. The spreadsheet. All kinds of wrong. We have sex most days unless absolutely knackered and that's alright. Both of us consent, no need for compliance. No one sulks if we don't and no one worries the other is going to have to look elsewhere. You've said he's amazing. All Previous posters just can't see it. A little snapshot of my DP. A cup of tea every morning with a forehead kiss. He puts his phone or laptop down to ask you how my day was and actually listens. He checks in on his Mum without fail every day and shows affection all the time. Pops to the shops every day in his way home for my favourite things and sometimes flowers. Always stands by my side when I'm prepping dinner and grabs a chopping board to do his fair share. He helps my kids with their homework and reads a bedtime story. He's just a good man. I feel secure and valued and treasured. The 4 years I was single I gave my head a massive wobble and knew that I'd stay single unless I felt this way. The EXH did a number on me and normalised terrible treatment. I could only see how bad it was once I left. But the relationship I'm in now is what my Mum and Dad have (60 years married) what my close friends have and I knew I deserved the same. Sorry for the long post. I don't wish to make you feel bad or gloat. But you asked for sense to be talked into you. You deserve so, so much better than this man. Being single would be a huge trade up x

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 10:32

Ok I need some sense slapped into me.
Oh Bounce, no you don't. Your sense is still all there, it's just been warped by this man who makes you feel like I am losing my mind here, my partner steadfastly refuses to accept that he is in the wrong to the point I am doubting myself.
You wouldn't stay in a job which had a boss that made you feel that way, would you? Or keep seeing a 'friend' who behaved this way?
People who lie & deny to keep their partner confused, undermined, on the back foot, & in the wrong - are gaslighters.
You man may have initially been so subtle about his control of you that you have been able to minimise, deflect, self-blame, absorb 100% responsibility for keeping him sweet (the FFS!) that you convinced yourself that you were in a healthy, loving relationship. But his mask slipped this week, & you are now forced into the awful confrontation with yourself & your own appalled cognitive dissonance:
'My b/f is a coercive sex pest & emotional abuser. But I would not go out with a man like that! So he can't be. So It must be me who is wrong. What can I do to make this feel normal again? How can I take responsibility for his behaviour, so that I can feel some sense of control, even though I have lost so much personal agency I can barely remember what I was like before meeting this man? I am not the kind of woman who would tolerate abuse - so my b/f is not an abuser. But he caused a row & wrecked my head when he knew I was nervous about my appointment. Maybe if I try harder not to be nervous next time, & make sure he gets sex even when I don't want it, he won't row with me, so I won't feel abused, & then he won't be an abuser' ...
Does any of this circular thinking feel familiar?

He's just let me know that he's not going to the gym tonight, this is absolutely unheard of, he had Monday off and he NEVER has two days off in a week., he rarely even has one day off.
Why do you care? Come on, you're already filling in the FFS, do you need to create 2 more spreadsheets for his work & gym schedule?
The man treated you appallingly this week, blamed you for it, & flounced off.
I know you're not feeling it - but just for today, can you just act like you don't give a shit?

So now I am feeling sick, we haven't had sex since Sunday, he's skipping the gym which is out of character for him, it's Friday night .... so my mind automatically jumps to he is going to be sleeping with someone else.
Do you see how ... unnatural this is? To be obsessing over what HE is doing, where HE is going, which details of HIS daily life are happening or changing?
Look at it this way - if he's having sex with someone else, he's not raping you.
Is that enough of a sense-slap?

Logically I think this is what he wants me to think and I am playing into his hands but it is still so hard to come down from the ceiling.
Logically, you are 100% correct.
There's a Script for this stuff, remember?
Having DARVO'd you for being upset about him making your medical appointment ALL ABOUT HIM, & for being sad & confused about his coercive reaction to not getting sex, he is now getting you to play the Pick-Me Dance with an imaginary woman.
The fucker is expecting a flurry of pleading voicemails & worried texts.
DO NOT GIVE THEM TO HIM.
www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/
www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-humiliating-dance-of-pick-me/

I am sure you lot will tell me good riddance or some other logical things - hence me posting. I don't want to text him back and argue about it and end up being the one in the wrong.
This is so, so fucked up.
Can you please do yourself a favour, & go & read this post again? - MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/05/2022 14:47

Remember - the reactions you are feeling, the desire to return to what you once felt was good with this man, are NORMAL.
It is also very, very, common to feel that awful dread, sorrow, & claustrophobia of knowing that any communication you attempt with him now - he will make you end up being the one in the wrong.
Bounce - you didn't just come by this feeling that you will inevitably be 'wrong' this morning.
It didn't create itself in a vacuum.
It is a conditioned response.
You have learned it over the months/years of being with this man, BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN COERCIVELY ABUSING YOU FOR A LONG TIME & THIS THREAD YOU STARTED ABOUT A SEX ROW IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
But - as Mariel observed in her 14:47 post, you were yet (& likely are still) unable to perceive the depth of the manipulation & control you have been under. Unable to admit that - if you are that embarrassing person, an abused woman - you! all capable & grown up & everything, HOW can this possibly be true of you!? - then your man is an abuser.
It is an immensely difficult, wrenching realisation.
It's ok to waver over it.
It's ok to take your time.
It is NOT OK to play this man's sick games any more.
www.ndawomensaid.org/get-help/am-i-being-abused/

One step at a time today, just get through it. Do not contact him. He will make you suffer for it.
You have no need to do anything, make any decisions, or put any pressure on yourself other than getting yourself through a few normal activities.
Maybe take yourself out to dinner tonight, or see a close friend.
He will contact you eventually. Guaranteed. Probably quite soon - he will need to re-establish dominance, & sell you the narrative that you are indeed very much in the wrong, but he may be able to graciously & nobly forgive you if you offer sufficient compliance to his authority.
So I recommend you don't respond today. It's not obligatory. There is no law that says you owe this rapey fucker your time.
Do you think you will be able to manage that - just for today?

Lovechildp · 06/05/2022 10:38

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 10:32

Ok I need some sense slapped into me.
Oh Bounce, no you don't. Your sense is still all there, it's just been warped by this man who makes you feel like I am losing my mind here, my partner steadfastly refuses to accept that he is in the wrong to the point I am doubting myself.
You wouldn't stay in a job which had a boss that made you feel that way, would you? Or keep seeing a 'friend' who behaved this way?
People who lie & deny to keep their partner confused, undermined, on the back foot, & in the wrong - are gaslighters.
You man may have initially been so subtle about his control of you that you have been able to minimise, deflect, self-blame, absorb 100% responsibility for keeping him sweet (the FFS!) that you convinced yourself that you were in a healthy, loving relationship. But his mask slipped this week, & you are now forced into the awful confrontation with yourself & your own appalled cognitive dissonance:
'My b/f is a coercive sex pest & emotional abuser. But I would not go out with a man like that! So he can't be. So It must be me who is wrong. What can I do to make this feel normal again? How can I take responsibility for his behaviour, so that I can feel some sense of control, even though I have lost so much personal agency I can barely remember what I was like before meeting this man? I am not the kind of woman who would tolerate abuse - so my b/f is not an abuser. But he caused a row & wrecked my head when he knew I was nervous about my appointment. Maybe if I try harder not to be nervous next time, & make sure he gets sex even when I don't want it, he won't row with me, so I won't feel abused, & then he won't be an abuser' ...
Does any of this circular thinking feel familiar?

He's just let me know that he's not going to the gym tonight, this is absolutely unheard of, he had Monday off and he NEVER has two days off in a week., he rarely even has one day off.
Why do you care? Come on, you're already filling in the FFS, do you need to create 2 more spreadsheets for his work & gym schedule?
The man treated you appallingly this week, blamed you for it, & flounced off.
I know you're not feeling it - but just for today, can you just act like you don't give a shit?

So now I am feeling sick, we haven't had sex since Sunday, he's skipping the gym which is out of character for him, it's Friday night .... so my mind automatically jumps to he is going to be sleeping with someone else.
Do you see how ... unnatural this is? To be obsessing over what HE is doing, where HE is going, which details of HIS daily life are happening or changing?
Look at it this way - if he's having sex with someone else, he's not raping you.
Is that enough of a sense-slap?

Logically I think this is what he wants me to think and I am playing into his hands but it is still so hard to come down from the ceiling.
Logically, you are 100% correct.
There's a Script for this stuff, remember?
Having DARVO'd you for being upset about him making your medical appointment ALL ABOUT HIM, & for being sad & confused about his coercive reaction to not getting sex, he is now getting you to play the Pick-Me Dance with an imaginary woman.
The fucker is expecting a flurry of pleading voicemails & worried texts.
DO NOT GIVE THEM TO HIM.
www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/
www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-humiliating-dance-of-pick-me/

I am sure you lot will tell me good riddance or some other logical things - hence me posting. I don't want to text him back and argue about it and end up being the one in the wrong.
This is so, so fucked up.
Can you please do yourself a favour, & go & read this post again? - MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/05/2022 14:47

Remember - the reactions you are feeling, the desire to return to what you once felt was good with this man, are NORMAL.
It is also very, very, common to feel that awful dread, sorrow, & claustrophobia of knowing that any communication you attempt with him now - he will make you end up being the one in the wrong.
Bounce - you didn't just come by this feeling that you will inevitably be 'wrong' this morning.
It didn't create itself in a vacuum.
It is a conditioned response.
You have learned it over the months/years of being with this man, BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN COERCIVELY ABUSING YOU FOR A LONG TIME & THIS THREAD YOU STARTED ABOUT A SEX ROW IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
But - as Mariel observed in her 14:47 post, you were yet (& likely are still) unable to perceive the depth of the manipulation & control you have been under. Unable to admit that - if you are that embarrassing person, an abused woman - you! all capable & grown up & everything, HOW can this possibly be true of you!? - then your man is an abuser.
It is an immensely difficult, wrenching realisation.
It's ok to waver over it.
It's ok to take your time.
It is NOT OK to play this man's sick games any more.
www.ndawomensaid.org/get-help/am-i-being-abused/

One step at a time today, just get through it. Do not contact him. He will make you suffer for it.
You have no need to do anything, make any decisions, or put any pressure on yourself other than getting yourself through a few normal activities.
Maybe take yourself out to dinner tonight, or see a close friend.
He will contact you eventually. Guaranteed. Probably quite soon - he will need to re-establish dominance, & sell you the narrative that you are indeed very much in the wrong, but he may be able to graciously & nobly forgive you if you offer sufficient compliance to his authority.
So I recommend you don't respond today. It's not obligatory. There is no law that says you owe this rapey fucker your time.
Do you think you will be able to manage that - just for today?

@KettrickenSmiled you are the angel of Mumsnet.

Original poster

BounceQueen · 06/05/2022 10:41

totallyoutnumbered · 06/05/2022 10:25

You want sense talking into you?
He spends hours in the gym every day. He withholds, love and support. He's cheated on all his previous partners (but not you, you'd better keep putting out though)
You have a fucking spreadsheet for sex.
Your first thought when he says he's missing the gym is that he's shagging someone else.
This thread boils my piss on your behalf.
This relationship is every type of wrong. You haven't answered about what makes him amazing but I see you mentioned he's your "cheerleader". It's utterly mental. The last thing I want to do is come across as a bloody show off but I think it's important for you to know
What a healthy and loving relationship looks like so here goes. Baring in mind I left a narcissist husband, spent 4 years single before I felt vaguely ready to even know I'd hit my self esteem and boundaries back to a healthy place. My DP is far from perfect but this is what mine looks like.
I am in the middle of a health scare. My DP looked utterly broken when we got the news. He's been a total champ, attending appointments and checking in with me throughout the day. A close friend of his called to check in on me and said DP was upset on a night out worrying about me and couldn't contemplate me not being around. You get the drift.
Hours at the gym? My EXH did this. He "needed" it to switch off and relax. Meanwhile, I raised 2 kids alone.
I'm not here to judge cheaters per se. In our 20s both me and DP cheated on exes when you're not taking life too seriously ( people get hurt though and that's something we both regret). But I know he's out distance between himself and several of these men who haven't grown up and are now cheating on their wives. He's told them it doesn't sit right with him and can't sit by and not say that it's wrong. My oldest teen was chatting to him the other day about cheating. He simply told him, don't be a selfish dick and hurt other people. Just do the right thing. The spreadsheet. All kinds of wrong. We have sex most days unless absolutely knackered and that's alright. Both of us consent, no need for compliance. No one sulks if we don't and no one worries the other is going to have to look elsewhere. You've said he's amazing. All Previous posters just can't see it. A little snapshot of my DP. A cup of tea every morning with a forehead kiss. He puts his phone or laptop down to ask you how my day was and actually listens. He checks in on his Mum without fail every day and shows affection all the time. Pops to the shops every day in his way home for my favourite things and sometimes flowers. Always stands by my side when I'm prepping dinner and grabs a chopping board to do his fair share. He helps my kids with their homework and reads a bedtime story. He's just a good man. I feel secure and valued and treasured. The 4 years I was single I gave my head a massive wobble and knew that I'd stay single unless I felt this way. The EXH did a number on me and normalised terrible treatment. I could only see how bad it was once I left. But the relationship I'm in now is what my Mum and Dad have (60 years married) what my close friends have and I knew I deserved the same. Sorry for the long post. I don't wish to make you feel bad or gloat. But you asked for sense to be talked into you. You deserve so, so much better than this man. Being single would be a huge trade up x

All of the things you say about your partner is exactly what he is like, honestly we have no other problems apart from this. Literally you just described him right down to phoning his mum every day on his way home from work.
He is usually kind, caring, thoughtful, he looks after me, he helps with my kids, he cooks, cleans, hes interested in all of us, how our day has been.

I truly can't fault him apart from his sex addiction which is now causing problems. Absolutely everyone adores him and says how perfect we are.

OP posts:

totallyoutnumbered · 06/05/2022 10:42

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 10:32

Ok I need some sense slapped into me.
Oh Bounce, no you don't. Your sense is still all there, it's just been warped by this man who makes you feel like I am losing my mind here, my partner steadfastly refuses to accept that he is in the wrong to the point I am doubting myself.
You wouldn't stay in a job which had a boss that made you feel that way, would you? Or keep seeing a 'friend' who behaved this way?
People who lie & deny to keep their partner confused, undermined, on the back foot, & in the wrong - are gaslighters.
You man may have initially been so subtle about his control of you that you have been able to minimise, deflect, self-blame, absorb 100% responsibility for keeping him sweet (the FFS!) that you convinced yourself that you were in a healthy, loving relationship. But his mask slipped this week, & you are now forced into the awful confrontation with yourself & your own appalled cognitive dissonance:
'My b/f is a coercive sex pest & emotional abuser. But I would not go out with a man like that! So he can't be. So It must be me who is wrong. What can I do to make this feel normal again? How can I take responsibility for his behaviour, so that I can feel some sense of control, even though I have lost so much personal agency I can barely remember what I was like before meeting this man? I am not the kind of woman who would tolerate abuse - so my b/f is not an abuser. But he caused a row & wrecked my head when he knew I was nervous about my appointment. Maybe if I try harder not to be nervous next time, & make sure he gets sex even when I don't want it, he won't row with me, so I won't feel abused, & then he won't be an abuser' ...
Does any of this circular thinking feel familiar?

He's just let me know that he's not going to the gym tonight, this is absolutely unheard of, he had Monday off and he NEVER has two days off in a week., he rarely even has one day off.
Why do you care? Come on, you're already filling in the FFS, do you need to create 2 more spreadsheets for his work & gym schedule?
The man treated you appallingly this week, blamed you for it, & flounced off.
I know you're not feeling it - but just for today, can you just act like you don't give a shit?

So now I am feeling sick, we haven't had sex since Sunday, he's skipping the gym which is out of character for him, it's Friday night .... so my mind automatically jumps to he is going to be sleeping with someone else.
Do you see how ... unnatural this is? To be obsessing over what HE is doing, where HE is going, which details of HIS daily life are happening or changing?
Look at it this way - if he's having sex with someone else, he's not raping you.
Is that enough of a sense-slap?

Logically I think this is what he wants me to think and I am playing into his hands but it is still so hard to come down from the ceiling.
Logically, you are 100% correct.
There's a Script for this stuff, remember?
Having DARVO'd you for being upset about him making your medical appointment ALL ABOUT HIM, & for being sad & confused about his coercive reaction to not getting sex, he is now getting you to play the Pick-Me Dance with an imaginary woman.
The fucker is expecting a flurry of pleading voicemails & worried texts.
DO NOT GIVE THEM TO HIM.
www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/
www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-humiliating-dance-of-pick-me/

I am sure you lot will tell me good riddance or some other logical things - hence me posting. I don't want to text him back and argue about it and end up being the one in the wrong.
This is so, so fucked up.
Can you please do yourself a favour, & go & read this post again? - MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/05/2022 14:47

Remember - the reactions you are feeling, the desire to return to what you once felt was good with this man, are NORMAL.
It is also very, very, common to feel that awful dread, sorrow, & claustrophobia of knowing that any communication you attempt with him now - he will make you end up being the one in the wrong.
Bounce - you didn't just come by this feeling that you will inevitably be 'wrong' this morning.
It didn't create itself in a vacuum.
It is a conditioned response.
You have learned it over the months/years of being with this man, BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN COERCIVELY ABUSING YOU FOR A LONG TIME & THIS THREAD YOU STARTED ABOUT A SEX ROW IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
But - as Mariel observed in her 14:47 post, you were yet (& likely are still) unable to perceive the depth of the manipulation & control you have been under. Unable to admit that - if you are that embarrassing person, an abused woman - you! all capable & grown up & everything, HOW can this possibly be true of you!? - then your man is an abuser.
It is an immensely difficult, wrenching realisation.
It's ok to waver over it.
It's ok to take your time.
It is NOT OK to play this man's sick games any more.
www.ndawomensaid.org/get-help/am-i-being-abused/

One step at a time today, just get through it. Do not contact him. He will make you suffer for it.
You have no need to do anything, make any decisions, or put any pressure on yourself other than getting yourself through a few normal activities.
Maybe take yourself out to dinner tonight, or see a close friend.
He will contact you eventually. Guaranteed. Probably quite soon - he will need to re-establish dominance, & sell you the narrative that you are indeed very much in the wrong, but he may be able to graciously & nobly forgive you if you offer sufficient compliance to his authority.
So I recommend you don't respond today. It's not obligatory. There is no law that says you owe this rapey fucker your time.
Do you think you will be able to manage that - just for today?

Amazing advice right here. Wish I'd had this all those years ago x

Original poster

BounceQueen · 06/05/2022 10:42

GroggyLegs · 06/05/2022 10:22

Gym obsessed.
Sex obsessed.

Is he taking something? Testosterone? Steroids?

Sorry if this has been asked, im only keeping up with your replies OP.

Also, it's not like things have changed, sounds like he's always been creepy had a high sex drive & you've been happy to accommodate it.
But something has happened to change your perspective on it all and you've been given an insight into where YOUR physical & mental wellbeing ranks compared to his fragile masculinity 'needs'.

Yes, testosterone and other steroids. They don't make him aggressive or moody or any of the other side effects that people usually associate with them though.

OP posts:

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 10:44

because he never ever skips the gym so it is out of character. He lives for the gym, it's his relaxing space he spends hours there every day.
Yeah, that doesn't seem narcissistic AT ALL 🤔

He does have form for cheating, not with me but every other relationship he has had. 😂😂😂
Laughing WITH you Bounce, not AT you here. Give your head a wobble.
I'd so like to give you a big hug right now.

So i think it's only a matter of time although he swears blind its different with me.
Let me guess - "you're not like the other women I''ve had. Crazy bitches. Cold hearted 'distant' (you know what 'distant' means - he used that coded word on you this week) ice queens. I had to cheat before ... I have NEEDS ... but with you, everything is so different. Look, I can even agree not to coerce you into sex every OTHER day! That's how marvellus I am. Just keep putting out love, so you don't force me to cheat?"

Gosh I need some kind of distraction, this way of thinking is unhealthy!
Nothing about YOUR thinking is unhealthy Bounce.
Your relationship though? Its health is fucked. It is diseased.

Original poster

BounceQueen · 06/05/2022 10:46

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 10:32

Ok I need some sense slapped into me.
Oh Bounce, no you don't. Your sense is still all there, it's just been warped by this man who makes you feel like I am losing my mind here, my partner steadfastly refuses to accept that he is in the wrong to the point I am doubting myself.
You wouldn't stay in a job which had a boss that made you feel that way, would you? Or keep seeing a 'friend' who behaved this way?
People who lie & deny to keep their partner confused, undermined, on the back foot, & in the wrong - are gaslighters.
You man may have initially been so subtle about his control of you that you have been able to minimise, deflect, self-blame, absorb 100% responsibility for keeping him sweet (the FFS!) that you convinced yourself that you were in a healthy, loving relationship. But his mask slipped this week, & you are now forced into the awful confrontation with yourself & your own appalled cognitive dissonance:
'My b/f is a coercive sex pest & emotional abuser. But I would not go out with a man like that! So he can't be. So It must be me who is wrong. What can I do to make this feel normal again? How can I take responsibility for his behaviour, so that I can feel some sense of control, even though I have lost so much personal agency I can barely remember what I was like before meeting this man? I am not the kind of woman who would tolerate abuse - so my b/f is not an abuser. But he caused a row & wrecked my head when he knew I was nervous about my appointment. Maybe if I try harder not to be nervous next time, & make sure he gets sex even when I don't want it, he won't row with me, so I won't feel abused, & then he won't be an abuser' ...
Does any of this circular thinking feel familiar?

He's just let me know that he's not going to the gym tonight, this is absolutely unheard of, he had Monday off and he NEVER has two days off in a week., he rarely even has one day off.
Why do you care? Come on, you're already filling in the FFS, do you need to create 2 more spreadsheets for his work & gym schedule?
The man treated you appallingly this week, blamed you for it, & flounced off.
I know you're not feeling it - but just for today, can you just act like you don't give a shit?

So now I am feeling sick, we haven't had sex since Sunday, he's skipping the gym which is out of character for him, it's Friday night .... so my mind automatically jumps to he is going to be sleeping with someone else.
Do you see how ... unnatural this is? To be obsessing over what HE is doing, where HE is going, which details of HIS daily life are happening or changing?
Look at it this way - if he's having sex with someone else, he's not raping you.
Is that enough of a sense-slap?

Logically I think this is what he wants me to think and I am playing into his hands but it is still so hard to come down from the ceiling.
Logically, you are 100% correct.
There's a Script for this stuff, remember?
Having DARVO'd you for being upset about him making your medical appointment ALL ABOUT HIM, & for being sad & confused about his coercive reaction to not getting sex, he is now getting you to play the Pick-Me Dance with an imaginary woman.
The fucker is expecting a flurry of pleading voicemails & worried texts.
DO NOT GIVE THEM TO HIM.
www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/
www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-humiliating-dance-of-pick-me/

I am sure you lot will tell me good riddance or some other logical things - hence me posting. I don't want to text him back and argue about it and end up being the one in the wrong.
This is so, so fucked up.
Can you please do yourself a favour, & go & read this post again? - MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/05/2022 14:47

Remember - the reactions you are feeling, the desire to return to what you once felt was good with this man, are NORMAL.
It is also very, very, common to feel that awful dread, sorrow, & claustrophobia of knowing that any communication you attempt with him now - he will make you end up being the one in the wrong.
Bounce - you didn't just come by this feeling that you will inevitably be 'wrong' this morning.
It didn't create itself in a vacuum.
It is a conditioned response.
You have learned it over the months/years of being with this man, BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN COERCIVELY ABUSING YOU FOR A LONG TIME & THIS THREAD YOU STARTED ABOUT A SEX ROW IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
But - as Mariel observed in her 14:47 post, you were yet (& likely are still) unable to perceive the depth of the manipulation & control you have been under. Unable to admit that - if you are that embarrassing person, an abused woman - you! all capable & grown up & everything, HOW can this possibly be true of you!? - then your man is an abuser.
It is an immensely difficult, wrenching realisation.
It's ok to waver over it.
It's ok to take your time.
It is NOT OK to play this man's sick games any more.
www.ndawomensaid.org/get-help/am-i-being-abused/

One step at a time today, just get through it. Do not contact him. He will make you suffer for it.
You have no need to do anything, make any decisions, or put any pressure on yourself other than getting yourself through a few normal activities.
Maybe take yourself out to dinner tonight, or see a close friend.
He will contact you eventually. Guaranteed. Probably quite soon - he will need to re-establish dominance, & sell you the narrative that you are indeed very much in the wrong, but he may be able to graciously & nobly forgive you if you offer sufficient compliance to his authority.
So I recommend you don't respond today. It's not obligatory. There is no law that says you owe this rapey fucker your time.
Do you think you will be able to manage that - just for today?

Thank you - every single post you have made makes perfect sense. I am reading them and I am feeling stronger. Infact I am going to go back to the start, read the whole thread again and order that Lundy Bancroft book.

Thank you - your time and effort to support me, a total stranger is so, so appreciated.

OP posts:

totallyoutnumbered · 06/05/2022 10:49

I can't reply to the other reply for some reason. So he's exactly as my DP but with the added sex addiction, gym obsession, coercive behaviour, sex spreadsheets, gaslighting and general decency?
My Pal told me that a level 1 twat is still a twat. I left a level 10 twat so decided to settle for no level of twat. Single wasn't lonely, my children thrived and I was content. You're in an abusive relationship OP. My EXH was incredibly well loved by everyone. He was a fully fledged narcissist who kept me second guessing myself. He could be kind. Very kind and a lot of fun. But that's not enough for me. Consistency was the key for me. Maybe you're happy to overlook this stuff, who knows. But it's not sitting right with you is it?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 06/05/2022 10:49

All of the things you say about your partner is exactly what he is like, honestly we have no other problems apart from this.

No amount of forehead kissing and being nice to people's mums makes up for the fact he told you, out loud, to your face that he would rather have sex with you when he knows you don't want to than wait until you do.

At best this is sexual coercion. At worst it is rape.

Your partner is sexually abusive to you. He makes you feel like you have to have sex or he will sulk to punish you. That isn't just being a cunt (though it is that too) it's literally breaking the law. Sexual coercion is against the law.

You say your kids don't know about your sex life so aren't being affected. And yet their mum is being made to feel like she is going mad for something as reasonable as not wanting to have sex on demand. Think about that. Think about the way they'll watch their mum slowly lose her sense of self, doubt herself, feel insecure, feel confused... you're teaching them that feeling that way is normal. It isn't. It's wrong.

You keep a spreadsheet to essentially desperately try to stop your partner from feeling justified in sexually coercing you into sex you don't want. You're trying to use excel to stop a man from wanting to rape you.

How you can justify having this man in you or your kids lives is beyond me.

He isn't a sex addict. He's an entitled, manipulative, abusive bully.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 06/05/2022 10:51

Yes, testosterone and other steroids.

So he's a drug user too? Another reason it's madness he's in your kids lives.

Doesn't make him moody?! Except for when his partner isn't in the mood for sex. Except when you say no to him wanting to have sex with you. Except when his sexual coercion fails.

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 10:52

BounceQueen · 06/05/2022 10:06

I am not sure the kids would forgive me for dumping him, they adore him and not like I can say well unfortunately he is sexually dysfunctional. My teens do not need to know about my sex life!

I can't believe I am even considering it, we were so happy up till Tuesday and now its like everything has changed!

I am not sure the kids would forgive me for dumping him, they adore him and not like I can say well unfortunately he is sexually dysfunctional. My teens do not need to know about my sex life!
Stop that. Right now. Your kids do not get to dictate your relationships.
You are catastrophising, because your poor bruised mind is scrabbling for excuses to retain the status quo. That's a normal human response - change can be scary, we are creatures of habit.
No, your kids don't need to know the specifics. But they can know that he was mean to mummy, so mummy isn't seeing him any more. Yes it's sad, but we don't play with mean people do we kids? How about the cinema tonight, or ... (etc etc)

I can't believe I am even considering it, we were so happy up till Tuesday and now its like everything has changed!
Keep considering.
The only thing that has changed here is that 2 things have slipped -
his mask, & your blinkers.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 06/05/2022 10:59

I can't believe I am even considering it, we were so happy up till Tuesday and now its like everything has changed!

Happy people don't feel obliged to keep spreadsheets to defend themselves when they aren't in the mood to have sex.

Happy people don't feel obliged to have sex on demand when they aren't in the mood, because they know if they say no their partner he will sulk to punish them.

As a PP said, nothing has changed other than your blinkers coming off.

This is not what a healthy, happy relationship looks like. Not now and not before this row.

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 11:03

I truly can't fault him apart from his sex addiction which is now causing problems. Absolutely everyone adores him and says how perfect we are.

What sex addiction?
Sounds like more excuses to me. Did he sell you this line, or have you come up with it yourself, as it's more palatable than "rapey bastard who punishes me for being nervous about a medical issue"?

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 11:08

@Lovechildp that is very kind. I learned so much here ... from so many wise Vipers, such as several PP on this thread, including you. xx

Bounce - I know you are taking it all in. This isn't a neat little story with a satisfyingly paced conclusion - it's your life. Strangers are invested, because they've been there. We don't want you to end up ground down by this man, who is also grooming everyone around you "everyone adores".

Today - just remember not to eat The Shit Sandwich - ok?
One day at a time ...

Original poster

BounceQueen · 06/05/2022 11:11

I definitely don't have shit sandwiches for lunch today.

I am off to work, thanks again everyone that has contributed. It really does help.

OP posts:

TalkingCat · 06/05/2022 11:11

He says it's 'different' with you? Yeah, right. And I'm the Pope. Once a cheater..... If you believe you're special enough more than all the others that he has cheated in every relationship but you, you're naive. Of course he cheats on you and probably has since day one. Deep down you know that.

You are willingly in a relationship with a man who has cheated on all his girlfriends - that's his morals. That's the type of man you're attracted to. So you're willingly in a relationship with a man who cheats and who takes steroids (I'd have left the very first time he took them, that very day, but you seem okay with it).

On both of those accounts, he's scum. Seriously raise your standards. Of course he's wrong to gaslight you about sex, but it doesn't like your self respect or standards are high at all to be involved with a pos like him. What type of woman would be with a man who cheated on all his previous girlfriends? Who is a serial cheat and you know it? And you entered into a relationship with that?!?? Where's your standards? Raise your standards and model good standards and morals to your children.

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 11:13

Add Lynn's tough love & brutal truths to your re-reading list Bounce:

You say your kids don't know about your sex life so aren't being affected. And yet their mum is being made to feel like she is going mad for something as reasonable as not wanting to have sex on demand. Think about that. Think about the way they'll watch their mum slowly lose her sense of self, doubt herself, feel insecure, feel confused... you're teaching them that feeling that way is normal. It isn't. It's wrong.

You keep a spreadsheet to essentially desperately try to stop your partner from feeling justified in sexually coercing you into sex you don't want. You're trying to use excel to stop a man from wanting to rape you.

How you can justify having this man in you or your kids lives is beyond me.

He isn't a sex addict. He's an entitled, manipulative, abusive bully.

And schedule in some leisure time for doing something just for you, or with the kids - something relaxing, fun, happy. You are gonna need to keep taking breaks to ensure you are looking after yourself. This thread is ... a hard road. Even for PP. So you make sure its OP is looking after herself, ok?

ScatteredMama82 · 06/05/2022 11:14

BounceQueen · 05/05/2022 10:17

He thinks I am being ridiculous and he won't bother trying to smooth things over again.

I am refusing to brush it under the carpet unless he acknowledges that he was a bit shit and apologies.

Even if we hadn't had sex for 3 months and I said Eww no thanks every time he touched me, I still don't think it was an appropriate time to bring it up and have a row about it. But facts are we have a very active sex life.

We have an unspoken two day rule, so if I say no one night he is guaranteed it the next, and me not feeling in the mood the night before the appointment would have broken that rule. I suspect that's why he had a tantrum, because he was fully expecting it.

You have a what rule??

Lovechildp · 06/05/2022 11:14

youvegottenminuteslynn · 06/05/2022 10:51

Yes, testosterone and other steroids.

So he's a drug user too? Another reason it's madness he's in your kids lives.

Doesn't make him moody?! Except for when his partner isn't in the mood for sex. Except when you say no to him wanting to have sex with you. Except when his sexual coercion fails.

He uses drugs as well. Oh. My. God.
he will be hypogonadal and impotent soon anyway

it really does get worse and worse. Most men at my gym who use these have more red flags than the soviets. Prance around like they are on love island.

KettrickenSmiled · 06/05/2022 11:16

Amazing advice right here. Wish I'd had this all those years ago x

Ye Dogs @totallyoutnumbered - me too! 😂😅😘