April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

@ChiswickFlo the best way to deal with toxic mother in laws is to not engage and not give them the ammunition they require to shoot you down or their FAVE game of making you look like the villain to their son. They LOVE that.

I’m now NC with the Hag (MIL) but some of my tips include having family get togethers OFF premises and going for the cheapest option. The local cheap pub became my best friend. When I did host the Hag in my home I started doing meals at 4pm as she goes to bed at 7pm (she’s nocturnal like some mad bat) because I knew it would be a two hour ordeal only.

final tip: tons of wine.

I look back on the 10 weeks of her living here across 2020/21 - illness, broken arm, flat repairs, her general wish to move in (and have me move out) for a cushy life of dominating another child’s life - and I’m ASTOUNDED as to how much I drank.

I also dosed the Hag with wine as it muted her. “Have another glass…”

now - thankfully - I don’t have to strategise as she’s banned from my life.

but I know how hard it is. And she’s not even my birth mother!

we’ve had the usual whining this weekend as to how Mr Monkey doesn’t ring, doesn’t care. It’s total fucking bullshit, of course. And he pushes back and doesn’t take the guilt. SO PROUD OF HIM.

His employers can see that he’s happier so they’re paying for a further two months of therapy. Thank god as we’re skint. The next steps are dealing with the trauma which is going to be really hard but really worth it.

Can I join? I've lurked for years but struggling today to get emotional equilibrium.

My DM actions have really upset me and yet it's not even directed at me.

I'll be a bit vague one of my very young adult nephews has just been caught handling stolen goods(we all are shocked and thinking what an absolute idiot, he can't even use the excuse of needing the money as he has an inheritance) my DSis is absolutely horrified and dealing with the emotions of her child possibly going to prison and realising her child is off the rails.

So to help this situation what does my very emotionally immature DM do? Post the Police reporting his arrest (they didn't name him) on Facebook!

I messaged her and said you do realise that post is about X and I got a series of messages:

I didn't think it was about him.

Someone else posted it.

I didn't mean to post it.

I thought I was sending it to you.

I mean if my grandchild did something similar I would be very angry with them and think they need to take the consequences of their actions and be thinking how can I support my child to help their child turn things around not posting a link to it on Facebook.

Although ever since this Nephew has been tiny barely out of nappies he's been the black sheep so at least now he lives up to her expectations! And at least it now puts my niece who is only 4 and had become the latest bad child in a good light for a while!

One positive I had been low contact with a sibling as they were an alcoholic and were abusive when drunk, they have been sober a year. They happened to see the police arrive and have been really supportive to DSis and we had the first proper talk we have had in years about how emotionally fucked up our family is.

I've not posted on here for a while, but I follow the thread and find your stories inspiring and helpful. Oh and I've changed my username too.

I've had a breakthrough this weekend and I've finally decided to go LC with my parents. For the first time ever I've pushed back and told them I don't have any free time to see them for the close future. I initially felt great, empowered even, but now I feel anxious and worried. I'm concerned they may do something irrational, my Dad has had suicidal thoughts before........

@CrispyTofu please don't feel guilty, the threat of suicide is often used by people to manipulate. It's just another way of controlling you.

@Myfamilyareweird thank you, yes I have been aware of their controlling behaviour for some time now. It's been worse since my DS was born and the way they behave to both me and my DS is why I've been pulling aware. The guilt is sometimes overwhelming though.

It came to a head a few weeks ago at a family garden party I hosted for my DS birthday. I orchestrated this party to keep my parents away from his real party with his friends. My Dad didn't speak to me at all, they tried to monopolise DS to keep him away from other family members and my mum cried during the party - no-one knows why and thankfully my DS didn't see her, I assume it was for attention and possibly as a reaction to learning that she had bought my DS a gift that we had already got for him. Although, I'm aware that the duplicate gift is just an excuse to get attention, manipulate and garner sympathy.
I am beyond trying to understand their behaviour, I can believe we are even related sometimes!

Sounds like you are doing the right thing @CrispyTofu

Guilt is a difficult emotion as I think you have to just experience the feeling there's no way of alleviating it.

Looking for a bit of advice on here.

DM and I have a very bad relationship, she was a crap mother to me and still is, exhibits a lot of the cover narc behaviours / highly co dependent with that.

I let DC see her but I use the grey rock technique to good effect while doing it. However. I'm finding that when DC are at hers, she isn't feeding them healthy food but mounds of junk food. For example, instead of a proper lunch, 2 bags of crisps, as much ice cream with sweets on top as they will eat.

DM is like a child in an adult's body and I think wanting DC to like her. So from what I gather treats this as a funny thing to do. If I say anything to her about it I have no doubt she will say it's her house her rules, make out I'm unreasonable for requesting any change to it. She has no respect for me, as a person or as their mother. Sees them as objects ('my grandchildren') rather than me being part of the equation. So the only power I have is not to send DC there or to send them less. As a single parent it's the only respite I get (can't afford babysitter rates).

I've tried talking to DC. Including about healthy eating, and about appropriate adult behaviour - pointing out that other responsible adults in their lives would never do this or giggle about it. Its not looking after them. However I can't expect DC (under 10) not to eat this stuff when put infront of them. What child wouldn't (especially when it's the only food made available).

Just wondering whether anyone else on here has any suggestions for strategies to adopt. DC have been to DM 3x this week and so I've said we'll have a healthy week at home. I feel between a rock and a hard place with the need for childcare.

Do you have to use her for childcare @ArtOfTheImpossible for work or is it for leisure purposes? If you don't have to then it's advise just not using her.

We haven't had any time away from the children or a night out together in years. I'm not single so slightly different although I am usually away with work 1/2 nights a week and then DH works evenings on a Friday & or a Saturday, so we don't have much down time even as a couple.

My DM wouldn't do that but she would say not keep an eye on the youngest near her pond. She also makes it clear that coming the 10/15 mins to us is a big thing she manages other relatives that are further distance fine she's just not that interested in us.

She doesn't even like doing trips out with us we've suggested a few different ones.

Unfortunately it's just the way it is although I do get a little sad when I see our neighbor with her grandchildren as she obviously enjoys spending time with them

Stop with letting the DC see her going forward, they are an ideal source of narc supply and they do not realise they are being manipulated. You need to find alternative childcare and asap, she absolutely should not be doing this. Is there really no friend or after school club that can be used?. You really do need to protect them as well as your own self from your mother.

Your father is not mentioned here, is he still in your life?. I ask only as he is not mentioned.

If she is too toxic for you to deal with, it’s the SAME deal for your children also. She will harm your children in not too dissimilar ways as to how you’ve been harmed here. She had not fundamental changed since your own childhood and she is not a good influence on your kids. At the very least she is feeding your kids crap that could damage their teeth and is using them as a way of getting back at you as their mother. Goodness alone knows what she says to them about you when you are not there. Many adult children of narcissist parents allow their kids to have a relationship out out of being conditioned and otherwise trained to put their own needs last. it’s a decision that is often regretted. She is trying to steal their very hearts and minds from under your nose.

Hello everyone, I hope you don't mind me joining to ask a question. Dh is estranged from his parents. I think that he is finally at the stage where he has accepted that this needs to be permanent. They are unable to accept the (reasonable) boundaries which he sets.

He claims to be ok with all of this, and perhaps he is, but I would like to be able to give him a couple of therapist recommendations so that he has the opportunity to talk it through with someone who has the skills to really help him to move on emotionally. Obviously it would need to be a therapist who isn't going to try to engineer a reunion because that's not what dh wants.

Any actual recommendations of specific therapists would be amazing, but even a reliable place to look would be great.

I'm so sorry to see so many of you suffering in the ways in which DH has.

Thanks in advance.

Hello everyone. I hope it’s okay that I came here to vent. I know this is a safe place for those who are NC with abusive parents.

I’ve gone NC with my mother and in my mind I’m processing a lot of the bad things she has done to me over the years. There’s one thing that I can’t really wrap my head around if it’s something to be angry about, but thinking about it makes me absolutely furious. Me and DH got married a few years ago, didn’t tell anyone except our parents and some close friends and didn’t invite anyone except the witnesses. We got married purely for practical reasons and didn’t want anyone to know we’re wedded until we would have planned a big celebration a few months later (this was the plan at least). Shortly AFTER we got married, I got pregnant unexpectedly, and DS was born 9 months after our wedding. My mother is quite religious and she dropped a comment last year where she said ‘you wouldn’t have married him if you weren’t pregnant’. This pissed me off so much because it isn’t true, the reason we got married was for practical reasons but not because I was trying to prevent having a baby out of wedlock, I’m not religious as I don’t share her views on marriage as some king of sacred institution.

I’m VERY sure she has told others this story as well, and it makes me even more upset, not only because it’s absolutely not true, she’s sharing private parts of our life (it’s nobody’s business that DS wasn’t planned) with others and it makes my marriage not look like a genuine one. All because she wants an excuse about why there’s a baby but no wedding. I know her, the reason why she made that comment is because she has repeated this lie so often in her head that she actually started to believe it herself and because she isn’t very bright, she hasn’t realized that she can’t sell me her lie about my life.

My DM does similar @LaBellina in sure she can't tell the lies from truth anymore.
I would just front it out so if she says it again day don't be ridiculous or yes DS was the best wedding present ever made the day that much more special knowing he was coming.

I'm guessing that you were only a few weeks pregnant when you got married? So you could go with you can't count very well mum cause I didn't know pregnant until X which bit hard to organise a shotgun wedding that quickly.

Or as she is religious really shock her and say you know if we didn't want to have a child we could have done something about that, it's not the dark ages anymore.

I wouldn't even think about what she tells others and does it matter if DS was planned or not? I'd just smile and say best surprise or wedding present ever, if someone is rude enough to say something.

Thank you for your advice @Myfamilyareweird 💐.
Yes, I know I shouldn’t let it bother me but I guess it’s part of a bigger issue of gaslighting, lies and constant manipulation. She’s so sneaky and condescending at the same time, I truly feel hate when I think of her. So glad I’m NC with her now, if anyone from my family mentions something I will expose her for the liar that she is.

There is nothing any of us can do about the false narratives that our dysfunctional family members weave. It used to bother me but doesn't any more. They have to allocate blame and implement the smear campaigns in the hope that we will be viewed in the worst possible light. It helps them to justify their behaviours and to protect their bullshit bubble.

The whole thing becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, because they do so much damage that there really is no coming back from it.

I will never return to my family of origin. The backlash for me going no contact was a huge ramp-up in the character assassination campaign. No surprise there obviously.

My toxic sister and her husband were the main orchestrators. Good luck to them. Their reputation for falling out with people is legendary.

So my advice to anyone would be to continue working on the emotional detachment until you get to a place where you have no fucks left to give.

Solidarity to all!

@AmongstTheCosmos my partner Mr Monkey had a terrible childhood orchestrated by his vile mother The Hag and he has PTSD. He’s now in therapy and two months in he’s finding it fantastic. It’s so worth it. Research someone on the British Association of counselling and psychotherapy to ensure they’re qualified. Look for someone experienced in what your husband feels are the issues?. Most therapists offer a free 30 minutes where you can see if you and them gel. It’s worth the time researching first. Good luck.

@Sicario my god am I in a better place from going NC with The Hag. Mr Monkey is doing really well with the therapy. His counsellor is brilliant and they are now in a place of exploring trauma which is hard, but necessary.

The Hag was SPECTACULARLY hilarious yesterday. MM phones her as she’s got some issues with her flat and he’s sorting them for her. The alternative of her sorting them is far worse as it would become off the scale dramatic.

After two or so years, Mr Monkey is taking Slave Son his brother out for a curry on Weds. I’m out of the country and even if I wasn’t I wouldn’t go - it’s THEIR time. It also shows that MM is in a better place as he’s starting to address the way in which Slave Son played his part in their nasty violent family so this is a big step as Mr Monkey has very much avoided seeing him. I doubt very much MM will talk about anything over the tikka masala as Slave Son is emotionally illiterate and a bag of suppressed rage. Let’s just say the rage was less suppressed when he was younger and they all lived ar home. MM is now using the word toxic masculinity when talking about his brothers.

Hag knows about the curry as it was mentioned earlier in the day and she’s dwelled on it all day.

Hag: so, you’re going without me?
MM: that’s right, I’m going out with my brother for a curry, just us.
Hag: so I’m not invited?
MM: I don’t understand why it’s a problem for you that I’m going out for a curry with my brother.
Hag: I never go out for a meal with you.
MM: that’s not true. I’ve taken you out for lunch after taking you for your hair appointment every time.
hag: you don’t.
MM: I do, in fact, I’ve been out for more lunches over the past year or so than I’ve been out with Monkey.
Hag shuts that down. But later on this will be keeping her warm at night.
Hag: you deliberately chose curry because I don’t like it.
MM: we chose curry because we like it.
Hag: we could go somewhere else.
MM: no, my brother and I are going out for a curry as planned and that’s the end of it.
Rattled silence. She changes tactics.
Hag: x (sister in law) phoned today. (This is the daughter in law and grandsons thar the Hag never phones)
MM (delighted for the change of subject): oh that’s good, what was she phoning about?

DRUM ROLL.

Hag: I’m not telling you. Quick recap: this is an adult of 85, not a toddler or teenager.

MM: OK. Well, anyway, I’ve got to go. I love you.
Hag: (nasty laugh) Well, I suppose you do.

Mr Monkey laughs. He has put in place great boundaries and now sees her behaviours for what they are - abuse and attempts at control. Slave Son (66) will now go through six days of shit about a fucking cheap curry and a couple of pints.

We are also going away this evening for the weekend to Mummy Monkey’s before I go overseas on Monday. Hag will love this. Somewhere else she’s not invited. I last saw her or spoke to her on the 26 December. I feel miles better and able to give MM more support.

Hello @MonkeyfromManchester !

It’s really interesting what you say about MM’s therapy journey and his comment about toxic masculinity.

It’s such a relief to be able to find the language to describe and name our experiences. Learning about these dynamics and being able to unmuddy the waters is a really key step towards our recovery. We get so badly sucked in that we can’t actually see what’s happened and how we got here. Therapy (and indeed this support thread) is an absolute life saver.

Extricating ourselves from toxic family is a long and painful process. It’s our own personal “Finding Freedom” thing. We need lots of tools and lots of support. There is so much of that here in the Stately Homes club.

Sounds like MM is doing brilliantly. Hope you have a lovely visit with Mummy Monkey and a fantastic overseas trip.

Oh @MonkeyfromManchester what an absolute horror she is :(
You must be very proud of your dh. And well done on nc!
Mil went to appointment...medication then back in 6 months.
And I just...don't care 🤷‍♀️
I'll support dh as best I can but it doesn't sound like she'll need any major support atm.
Mum isn't great. Blood results keep coming back has high white count (infection) she's lost 4kgs and is now under 7 stone. I've got her some fortisips and rich puddings.
Dr phoning her on...wait for it!...7th July!
Sigh.
I'm dealing with ds2s issues as well atm - he has told us and his teacher he identifies as non binary. Its not a shock to me per se but I'm just...a bit baffled by it all.
Obviously, we've told him we will use his preferred Pronouns but...I dunno.
I'm pretty GC and I find this stuff hard.
I also worry pils will say/do something to hurt/upset him. Which will be the end for me. But..perhaps I'm catastrophising...

Oh, pils and dhs sibling "popping in" on his b day for an hour.
(I have specifically invited this sibling as they have a toddler who goes to bed at 6.30pm so they will all bugger off at 6pm 🙂)
Obviously if mil does/says anything this time then it's game over for me but dh is adamant she's "learnt her lesson"...we will see I guess.

@Sicario he’s doing so well. He’s much happier getting to grips with it all. Exploring the trauma is hard, but he’ll do it. This place is a lifeline. Thank you. Now at mum’s and feeling chilled.

@ChiswickFlo i hope you cope with your mum’s illness. And 100% the right attitude to your MIL. We owe the Toxics NOTHING. BTW, Stonewall has some resources on non-binary. Hope the meet-up goes OK.

Hag is still seething about not being allowed to gatecrash her sons’ curry. Slave Son went to buy a coat on Friday and Hag had to go, too. SS is her substitute husband. It’s twisted. Why the F Slave Son a) mentions he’s doing things b) let’s her browbeat him into having the toxic shadow with him is utterly beyond me. Apparently, they “fell out” according to The Hag. This is code for her being absolutely fucking vile all day. I’ve seen it, it’s truly shocking. And the phone calls that end with her slamming down the receiver like a teenage girl.

She’s now doing the “I’ll bribe my way in” by offering them £200 for their meal. It’s a curry FGS. She will make their lives hell for not doing what she wants. We had CurryGate a couple of years ago. Utterly ridiculous.

SO glad I’m NC.

@MonkeyfromManchester it's a shame your dh can't/won't go nc but you can't control that. Sounds like he's making real progress though.

I'm very, very LC with my siblings now, which great. I only contact them if mum is ill/in hospital.
They only ever contacted me when they want/need something.

Very, very LC with mil too. Haven't seem her since October last year.

I'm so tired. Half term next week though so I'm turning my alarm off!

@ChiswickFlo yeah for half term. Enjoy your rest.

it’s so much better being LC for mental health. I would be in prison for murder if I wasn’t NC. “There’s no wine in prison’, my mum reminds me.

Hi I'm new.

I've been here for years and years and never had the strength to post on here.

However, I am in the most vulnerable place right now and I need help.

I've been strong and set boundaries with my toxic parents in the past. My dsis is better, but they are all practically devoid of emotional intelligence. I have coped by going very low contact - mostly due in part as my mum was recently unwell.

Recently however, I have had to go through the worst pain imaginable. The unexpected loss of my teenage son. A boy who was so kind and gentle for this world. My toxic family members barely knew him as they hardly saw him.

Whilst he was dying, lying in intensive care, my parents, sister and her family violated the most private and emotional time between my other DD and DH in a completely selfish and insensitive way possible by coming into ICU - ignoring every boundary I put in place. They caused the most horrific memories for us, and what was a very emotional and private time between my ds, dh and dc.

My true love for my dc and dh and the tower of strength and support from my dearest friends have been phenomenal. I have never known such kindness. It has helped me to grieve. BUT - my toxic family have made this indescribably worst - making this horrible and painful situation all about them and worst still, taking advantage and making a circus show.

I have for the moment to cope - gone NC with them. Which, as you can guess is causing them even more 'entertainment'.

But what makes it worse is that I am struggling with what I had to endure with them in ICU as well as the pain of seeing my son slip away. Also, I am struggling with the impending funeral as I know they will NOT respect any boundaries and make it a million times worse. DH is also saying we need to understand that they are not emotionally intelligent and that we can avoid them and that we need to be the better people and rise above it for the sake of my gorgeous ds. He thinks we can have a discussion with toxic family and it'll be OK. DH is trying to do the right thing I know but it is causing us additional stress ontop of the crap I have to deal with my toxic family.

I started a separate thread about this. It was suggested I put it here but MN said I couldn't merge it to this thread so suggested I re-post it here from scratch:

My Mother is being 'laid to rest' via an Unattended Cremation today.
I say today, but it could be any time in a 72 hour period around now.
My half brother booked it, & the Co won't discuss with anyone but the booker.
Her remains will be returned to him in around 3 weeks.
He says it's 'what she wanted'. Perhaps. but I also know she had a paid up (4K) Funeral Plan & when I saw her, 2 weeks before her expected death, she spoke of burial & her worries about Cremation (& God)
This will cost less than 1K. I had arranged to travel down (350miles), thinking it was a local Crematorium, but it's 200miles away from Mum's house too.
I suggested we get together for a cup of tea.
Brother is 'busy, but have a nice weekend'.
He is behaving in this way as my Mother did too.
My Mother was both neglectful & highly abusive.
I had accepted, some 20 years ago, that she was the person who birthed me, rather than being any sort of 'Mother'.
So why I am upset I cannot say.

thanks esp to DotDotaDash & SophSoso & 1 or 2 others who replied to me before (I think MN will delete that one to avoid confusion)

@MyFragility sorry I just saw your post.
That sounds horrendous. I am sorry for the loss of your son. x
It's incredibly hard when NC reasons are stirred up around a loss / Funeral too x

Wonder if it's OK to post here? It's a support thread but I don't feel in any position to support as I don't understand my mother at all and don't feel like I have any insights!

Shes not a narcissist. She might have a personality disorder I had a v interesting convo with my aunt recently who told me she has always been 'like this' and when they were all little she remembers her and their brothers saying they felt sorry for whoever her children would be when she was older. That's me.

She has a horrid habit of turning anyone's difficulties into something to do with her, but she suffered more. My friend recently revealed she's escaped an abusive relationship, left in the dead of night with her infant son, boarded a plane etc. My mums response... 'I can empathise with that'. As in, she's experienced something similar.