April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

So so sorry to hear this about thr loss of your son. I can hear how desperate you are in your message. Do they have to come to his funeral?

@MyFragility
I'm so very, very sorry x
Your dh should be protecting you and respecting your feelings. But it's so, so hard when you are mourning to see the wood for the trees.
Sadly, narcs and abusers revel in serious illness and bereavements...they can really put on a show then :(
I wish I had any advice for you but I'm listening x
Unload on here x

Have you read toxic parents by Susan forward? It was eye opening.

There are also books on narc parents too.

@MyFragility thinking of you x

Need to check in. I had been feeling at peace with the ''low contact'' as I saw it but on Friday my mother sent me a text saying that she thought she'd seen me near her house and that she ran after me to talk to me. Then she suggested meeting for coffee.

The problem in our ''relationship'' is that she has not talked to me, not listened (long history of silent treatments and stonewalling currently going on. I decided that I would not be summonsed back to play the part of daughter if I was being stonewalled, so the low contact is my choice I guess, because the options are submit to our narrative which demonises you, or, 2) be ostracised.

Anyway, I responded to my mother ''you could have talked to me any time you wanted, you chose not to. And then I said when I was free and that a coffee would be fine.

She responded with her ''ground rule, no shouting'' so I responded ''i have a ground rule too, understand that I only shouted at you AFTER you had already shut me down and silenced me and made it clear that there was nothing I could say or do to persuade you to treat me any differently''.

And she said

''we'll postpone the meeting''.

OH. MY. GOD. This woman.

She tells people she wants to talk to me but she doesn't. Her ONLY vision of fixing things is that I apologise for shouting (which I've actually done, but she hasn't acknowledged that she does not listen).

And in true non-listening style, my most recent message to her after she postponed the meeting is sitting unread.

Yet she allegedly ran after me to talk to me

JoyLurking9to5

Its really best not to at all respond going forward; to such disordered of thinking people like your mother a response is the "reward" because they know they have you then.

MyFragility

Thinking of you and your family at this time.

And indeed your DH should be protecting you and your feelings. It's likely he came from an emotionally healthy family himself hence his stance but doing that will only play into their hands even more. These people really do not and will not ever play by the normal rules governing familial relations. As ChiswickFlo correctly surmised narcs and abusers revel in serious illness and bereavements...they can really put on a show then. I've seen that with my own eyes too.

It's true. The next time she messages me, which mightn't be for a year, I'll know there is no point expecting her to be ready to listen finally. I thought she might be suggesting coffee because she was ready to listen. But no.

''no shouting'' equals ''the problem her is you''. doesn't it? Am I reading too much in to ''no shouting''.

If I were trying to fix things in her shoes I would have started with I do understand that you were very frustrated when you shouted at me because it had been preceded by decades of silent treatments.

BUT NO. Her narrative after two years is still the same. I might be reading a lot in to ''ground rule, no shouting'' but I think it means that she has had no insight whatsoever in the last two years and she still basically feels entitled to expect me to just SUBMIT to her narratives; no discussion.

We had had no contact since very early in the new year and I'd been feeling quite accepting of that and now I'm rattled and angry again. She initiated this! She suggested coffee to talk and then shut me down again before we'd even arranged a place to meet. It's actually almost funny.

@MyFragility I'm so sorry about the loss of your son. xx

It's been a few weeks now since I had any contact with my siblings (except for a phone call to my sister when mum was rushed into hospital 3 weeks ago)

It's very peaceful.

It's my dhs 50th and ds1s 18th bday this week so it'll be interesting to see if they bother with a card (doubtful 😉)

Pils and bil and dn are coming for an hour for dhs bday for cake. Sadly, weather looks rubbish so my cunning plan to shove them outdoors and hide in the kitchen probably won't work 😬

It's been a rubbish week here. My peri menopausal insomnia is horrendous atm, dh seems fed up (looming 50th I think!) and ds2 is having issues at school.

Ds1 is exhausted from exams. Its all been a bit bluergh.

I'm hoping our holiday in 6 weeks goes OK...I really need it!

@ChiswickFlo - early days but long may the peace reign. Sounds like you've got quite enough going on in your own little family unit. Those are two BIG birthdays to celebrate so good luck with that!

The peri insomnia is a real pain in the arse. I know some women "sail through menopause" (really???) but for the rest of us it can get a bit challenging to say the least.

It's 5 years since I went NC with my FOO - being 3 siblings and 1 mother. The early weeks/months/years were hardest but it takes that long to drag yourself out of the FOG and fucked-up family conditioning. (Rather, it took ME that long - I shouldn't speak for other people's experiences.)

Thank you...yes a big week :)

I'm oddly at peace with it all tbh.

I never really saw them much (despite living in the same town) and they have never made any effort so now I am no longer making an effort I'll never see them - and that's fine.

Bumping for Fantastique and or anyone else who needs to write on this particular thread.

Hi Fantastique

I saw your post on the now full Stately Homes thread and I hope you've now found this message to you on this current thread.

Re your parents I would advise you to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Continue to not see them. Would also suggest you seek out a BACP registered therapist, find someone you can work with here and find someone too who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

It is not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way. Such toxic people do not and never ever play by the "normal" rules of familial relations. Meeting with them and or wanting/waiting for them to apologise will be a waste of time/not happen respectively and could leave you coming off feeling far worse from such an encounter. They have no motivation to change because they have the relationship exactly the way they wanted it. You are the one struggling as a result. Decide for yourself now that you are not going to be the last person in your own life.

Do you have siblings; if so how are they treated?.

You've tried your whole life with them so let them go completely along with any hope that they will change and or say sorry. Release your own self from your fear, obligation and guilt; three damaging legacies many such people of toxic parents have in spades. I am so very sorry that your parents have let you down so abjectly, its really not your fault. Women like your mother also need a willing enabler to help them, that person here is your dad. He is her secondary abuser here and cannot be at all relied upon either.

Can I join please. Been lurking for a while. Struggling a bit. My
Mother's sister & her bil have arrived from overseas & I feel awful. Hurt & excluded. They have made an effort to come see me & wete lovely but the whole tribe have been having parties & events to which I'm excluded & it hurts. My mum is queen bee'ng all over the place. Feel so hurt

God that really hit home. I have a sharp memory when her cat died. My mum was crying and instead of telling me what was wrong she took me to the room my bf was in and told me with him. I've never been able to figure out why she did that but that really makes sense.

I dread anyone we know dying as I feel so much pressure from her. When her dad died I went straight back to work just to get away from her.

That's hurtful. Don't blame you for feeling excluded.

Thank you so much for your help moving me to this new thread and for your reply.
its so good someone understands - for so long I felt it was all in my imagination.

they have long been controlling and mean to me.

I have a sibling and he’s just the same as they are. A bully and not very nice.

the thing I have opened my eyes to recently is how selfish my mum is and she might even be a narcissist. She sees everything from her own perspective. When she disclosed my secret I entrusted her with she said you didn’t know how much it had been causing me stress and how I couldn’t cope with it.
all about her.
now she calls herself elderly she just turned 70. She’s always gaining sympathy by behaving in this manipulative way. She’s perfectly healthy. My friends mum is 80 and still goes to the school to pick up her granddaughter.

she wants to make up and draw a line (ie not discuss it) but just move on. Her whole life she sweeps things under the carpet.

but she said the whole even has been devastating for her. But it’s bizarre. She caused it all. Remarkable. I really never saw it until last year. She isn’t able to accept any criticism or talk about anything she is never wrong.

@Fantastique11 - once "you see it" with their behaviour, you can't unsee it. That sickening realisation is really horrible. The day I walked out of my mother's house (my toxic sister and her MIL were also there), I thought to myself I'M NEVER GOING BACK THERE. I haven't seen or spoken to any of my family of origin (FOO) since.

Cutting toxic family out of your life is hard but it's the only way to preserve your own sanity. The hurt they cause is catastrophic to us, and they either don't realise or don't care. There will never be an apology. No admittance of fault. That will never happen. Everything has to be your fault because that's how it works for them.

So sorry for all you are going through. And remember - it's not you, it's them.

I know. So so true. You cant un see the dynamics once you see them.

My mother thinks i will be summonsed back to play the part she wrote for me eventually, but it wont happen. The only reason id have to end the estrangement would be her finally listening and apologising and the only end to the estrangement that she can visualise is that i say sorry for the reactions i had to being hurt. Calling her out on her martyrdom, her silent treatments. My Shouting. Standing my ground. Refusing to be summonsed back to heel..... she sees my reactions to her hurtful behaviour as NOTHING to do with her and i see it as everything to do with her. I wont bother reacting to anything ever again, ill just stay out of her way and not pursue any kind of resolution

Well it was only a matter of time. My mother passed away this week, possibly Tuesday. My toxic sister sent the news via a long grapevine creating maximum upset and drama, culminating in my youngest daughter having to call me break the news. She was in bits, not because of the death (daughter couldn't stand her) but because of the upset she thought she would be causing me. I felt so bad for her.

So let the games begin, I guess. This was always going to be my sister's piece de resistance. I expect her behaviour to go off the scale and as much as my BIL is a total dick, I wouldn't want to be him right now.

I feel absolutely nothing about my mother's death. She was sick of living anyway and made it well into her nineties. I have already been through the grieving process over the years, mourning the mother I wish I'd had, and finally dropping the rope with the difficult woman my mother actually was. So that's over now and I'm relieved.

Although I moved away, I never blocked any of my FOO and my email, SM and phone number have never changed. But of course my sister was never going to do anything so normal as picking up the phone, sending a text or email to let me know. The way she chose to do it was a new low even for her.

So let's see how this one plays out.

Sadly, you are right about your sisters behaviours ramping up.

As i said uptrend, narcs LOVE bereavements and serious illness. What a perfect stage for them!

I will NEVER forget my (horrendous) sils behaviour the day my dad died. Nor her sisters behaviour at his funeral.

I guess at least you know and can try to prepare yourself? I'm sorry your dd was so upset x

Well, dhs bday gathering went ok.

Thank god the weather held so they all went sat outside in the garden.

Mil was OK. Fil was quiet. My sil is lovely so nice to see her. They actually stayed 2 hours not one 🙄

I'm shattered. I don't think I realised how much I was dreading seeing them. All.ok though. Ds1 not having a get together for his bday (thank goodness!) so I won't hsve to see them again for a good while.

@Sicario SORRY to hear that, not that you haven't already grieved, but sorry you're going to have that feeling of waiting to see you crawls out of the woodwork now to get in touch with you and let you know what's going on.

I suspect nobody will let me know anything because my sister needs to retain control. My sister and BIL have been living out of my mother's bank account for years, using her cards and getting money out of her for anything and everything (holidays etc). They definitely won't be wanting any questions about finances, and I wouldn't put it past my sister to have coerced our mother into changing her will.

Yup, id expect that too unfortunately, she,'s been hearing their narrative for long enough. So, she will have left it to the sister who "cared for" her. Argh. It's the injustice. Whether the house is a shack or a palace.

After years and years of my parents upsetting me by not hearing me, ive realised it just boils down to my being unable to tolerate their bullshit narratives. They see themselves as saints trying to deal with their mad daughter. They will cut me out of their will too no doubt, on account of my madness (asking them to hear me).

Imagine bringing children in to the world and then later thinking "what you feel, what you think, the respect you're asking for, it makes me so angry that you believe i should hear this, how dare you. Just play the part of daughter".

It's baffling to me.

@Sicario hope that the universe brings you peace in other ways this week. 💐🕊🍀