April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

Cheerios are you sure she is the family scapegoat? It sounds like she is making you a scapegoat in your family and she is actually quite abusive.

I think dysfunction families breed resentment between the siblings with their in built unfairness which the children then continuously react to and patterns of poor dynamics build up. It is so hard to avoid.

I hope you are able to prioritise yourself in this. You did not cause any of this and it is so awful that you are caught up in it.

Thanks for your reply. Yea I guess that is true. She has tried before when I was vulnerable as a single parent struggling with a baby and succeeded. It made me feel so alone and awful.
It's odd I would never screw her over but things she's done in the past eg. I sold my DS cot and matching furniture to her for a fraction of what it cost. The next day she put it all on the marketplace for huge amounts of money to make a profit. I was so upset, I thought it was for my nephew, not to make a profit out of me.
I don't know the older we have got the more our beliefs and morals do not align. Even though she is my sister this makes it hard.

She is not behaving like a good person Cheerios. That is is an example of incredibly manipulative behaviour from her.

I have walked away from my own family because the dysfunction is so obvious to me now after years of denial. When you start to see it, it is impossible to unsee it.

Going NC is incredibly painful and I would only ever recommend it if reducing contact to manageable levels doesn’t work but at the very least you need to reduce contact to a level that you can manage emotionally. You need as much emotional detachment from them as is humanly possible.

These types of behaviours are intolerable to us because they shouldn’t be tolerated. It is a good thing that your awareness of the issues is being raised.

So many stories coming up on this latest thread which continue to echo the damage and trauma of growing up in (and continuing to be a part of) a deeply dysfunctional family.

I've been NC with my family of origin for about 5 years now. It still haunts me every day but walking away was the only answer and I have no regrets about my decision. It was definitely the right thing to do.

I've been thinking a lot about trust. If I were to see any of my FOO I would have absolutely nothing to say to any of them. I realise now it's because all trust has been destroyed. How can you trust a person who you know will cause you hurt and heartache? It leads me time and time again to the word betrayal. You think someone's got your back then they throw you under the bus, again, and again.

We learn to navigate these awful dynamics that suck the life out of us and leave us feeling like shit.

There is no fixing any of it. Any attempt to introduce boundaries is fiercely opposed and serves only to throw petrol on the fire. It's a fool's errand.

Going NC is a big decision. When you pull those steel shutters down it feels like a huge bereavement and the grief is not to be underestimated. But that's only to be expected after a lifetime of being conditioned to take up your role in the fucked-up family theatre. Coming out of the FOG really took some doing.

Freeing myself from my family of origin has been totally liberating. It has given me the time to heal, to reflect, and to understand the big picture. It wasn't my fault. None of it was my fault. I did my best until I couldn't do it any more. And that's ok. My life belongs to me now, and whoever I care to share it with - my DH, my grown up kids, my friends.

I feel no animosity towards my siblings or my mother. I wish them every happiness in life. I wouldn't want to be any of them. Letting go of the anger was a big part of my recovery.

I don't feel guilty any more either, which is great. (That's a real killer for us women, isn't it?! But it's do-able, trust me on that.)

Sending hugs and solidarity to everyone here. Know that it's okay to walk away. You do not have to be what other people want you to be. You are free to be who you want.

I love that @Sicario so tough but clearly some much strength to move through it.

I am looking forward to getting to the point of feeling no guilt. I know that all i did was tell them they hurt me, rationally i know that but im still susceptible to feeling what they decide i ought to feel, and shame me for not feeling.

Looking forward to more distance from it all.

@sicario i really like the idea that standing very certainly in my own interpretation of events is loyal to myself and so healing the wound of betrayal. That rang true for me but it takes q good bit of healing even to get that far that you can do that!

Can I sidle onto the board, please? I’m not sure whether I really belong here but I had a thread in bereavements and while people were so understanding about everything, I don’t want to go on about it there.

I’m massively choked up at the moment about my sibling and the way I seem to be the person left to do all the practical stuff following the death of our DM. He’s just pretty much ignored it all and assumed I’d do it. It’s left me with a huge ball of grief and anger and resentment and I can hardly bear to speak to him at the moment. He's my only family left now. It doesn’t help that SIL is a narcissist of titanic proportions and so there’s no support from that quarter either.

sorry - this probably all sounds fairly incoherent. I’ve got back from basically clearing the house where we grew up and I just feel so utterly, utterly terrible.

@Pal1mpsest I am so sorry about your loss. Was your family of origin dysfunctional itself do you feel? It is so hard dealing with the fallout in dysfunctional families. Are you female? I would say that one of the more common themes in hierarchical dysfunctional family systems (although nothing is going to be universal) is misogynistic behaviour. And then the next generation pick up on the unfair dynamic and develop their own patterns of interaction and on and on it goes through the generations. The girls often internalise a responsibility beyond a reasonable levels and the boys internalise entitlement.

It is just so hard and frustrating especially when you are grieving. Focus on minding yourself and take the time you need to do that. Don’t rush things. Grief is so tough.

Thanks for replying @oliviastwisted - yes, I am female. There were definitely dysfunctional aspects to my own family background as my DF struggled with depression and we all walked on eggshells to an extent. I grew up as a very anxious child over-preoccupied with doing the right thing at all times, although that was never overtly reinforced by my DPs…if anything, I put the pressure on myself. DB (younger) is very different in character and just went his own sweet way. I was always very close to DM and am finding it a huge struggle to adjust to her loss now.

Really love this too. I'm glad you no longer feel guilt. As you say it's really hard not to feel that.

Completely get what you're saying on the trust front. I feel I cannot tell my DM anything in confidence. She's told other family members. Same with my sister, if i tell her something she will tell my DM.
So much triangulation happening in my family. Usually with my mum at the top.

Sending big hugs. I'm sorry for your loss, it cannot be easy. Did your DB get away with alot at home?

I found with being the oldest I had alot of responsibility to be the best, do well. However my sister who is different to me in all ways was let to do what she wanted. No pressures for her.

Cheerios12

People with narcissistic personality disorder or narcissistic tendencies might also use triangulation, usually to maintain control over situations by manipulating others.

With narcissistic triangulation, one-on-one conversations or disagreements might quickly become two-against-one situations. You might suddenly find yourself left out, your protests ignored and overruled.

A parent with narcissism might also triangulate by playing children off each other. They might designate one child as the good child, or the favorite, while the other serves as a scapegoat for wrongdoing and blame. I think you're very much the scapegoat here with your sister being highly manipulative (like her mother) and favoured "golden child" (itself a role not without price either).

The parent might alternate their attentions, occasionally elevating the scapegoat child and devaluing the favorite, or they might simply imply that the scapegoat child should try harder to earn their love and affection. In either scenario, they typically give only one child positive attention at a time.

The other child, feeling neglected and ignored, tends to work harder to earn attention by competing with their sibling or making a dedicated effort to keep the parent happy (or both).

They never know when they might earn the love and validation they crave, so they keep working for it. An occasional kind word or other positive reinforcement from their parent will generally only keep them trying harder to earn similar rewards.

Just checking in to this thread, I'm just back from a friend's party and I have this slightly unsettling feeling that I was rude to somebody although i can't think who, or that I drank too much or arrived too early or left too soon or that i was boring or hyper or that i didnt circulate enough. 😲
I had a good time at the time but now i feel im questioning my "behaviour" 🙈 even though there's nothing concretely weird i can put my finger on. Just this weird sense that i am a bit weird. Oh my God. I had a good night but i feel all discombobulated

I am trying to deal with the realisation that I have been gaslit by my probably narcissist mother and family of flying monkeys my whole life. Invalidation/ minimisation of feelings, exclusion, manipulation it's all there. Considering going nc, am currently v low contact. How do I begin to heal from this?

I think it's a process. For me it is about feeling validated. The guilt and sadness is there, but if being NC makes you feel in a better place / happier than being in contact, that is validation enough. I had therapy for the guilt and sadness. I'm like you, in an in-between place at the moment. Joint therapy didn't work because my NF didn't accept any wrongdoing, and in fact blamed me (as noticed by the therapist). For me, I think it's about feeling I've done all I can. His favourite expression - 'the ball is in your court!' Classic deflection 🙄

One of the hardest parts of going NC is the actual making of the decision. For me it came in a snap moment. I came to the point of thinking, fuck this, I'm not doing it any more. And I walked away. Nobody ever heard from me since that moment. A while later, I moved house and nobody has my address.

If you get to a point when having contact with family (whether it's one or all of them) causes you crippling anxiety and feelings of dread, then I think the answer is pretty clear.

For me, those feelings were undoubtedly a result of a lifetime of family dysfunction and abuse. My sister is cut from exactly the same cloth as my violent and abusive mother - I wish I had recognised this years ago instead of making excuses for her. I also have 2 brothers who bullied me throughout my childhood.

So making the decision is one thing, and sticking to it is even harder. There were times when I thought maybe I could go back and things would be different. @AttilaTheMeerkat set me straight on that and scraped me off the ceiling a couple of times with wise words.

Removing toxic people from your life is always a good decision.

It’s a long one. I had to vent…

The Hag Chronicles Chapter 568

So, The Hag (toxic mother in law) has no heating in her housing association flat because of a fault. This has been going on for the last two weeks. Mr Monkey deals with housing association and the energy company. Continuously. As no one seems able to take responsibility. He now has the local councillors involved who - in minutes - get the housing association to take responsibility.

MM - with a residual sense of responsibility, albeit hugely reduced - worries about her, whilst I consider buying 10 tons of ice cubes to be winched into her 7th floor lair.

She will not switch on her electric fire.

She will not use the temporary heater the housing association has lent her.

She will not use a hot water bottle. She has carers going in three times a day - breakfast, lunch and dinner - who can make them up for her.

She refuses.

We are deep in the county of Martyrshire big time. AGAIN.

Hag is OBVIOUSLY once more angling to stay here. There is no fucking way.

In a miracle, I’ve tested positive for Covid - it’s grim - so the mere (inalienable) concept of her being here this Thursday when the heating people dismantle her flat is impossible on that level alone. I coughed with joy.

MM explains that he’s tested positive for Covid, but is asymptomatic whilst I’m like something out of the Black Death.

She’s LIVID that no one had told her - although she wouldn’t give a shit about me - as she’s missed out on ALL OF THE DRAMA.

Mummy Monkey also has Covid miles away in the middle of nowhere.

You can hear the toddler tantrum brewing - why haven’t I got it/had it? WHAT ABOUT ME? WHERE IS MY ATTENTION?

Mummy Monkey is just getting on with it and worrying that she’ll lose her palate for fine red wine.

Mr Monkey is, therefore, unable to take the witch to a foot clinic appointment next Monday as he’ll be subject to NHS guidelines on Covid safety etc. and, irrespective of whatever the rules (are there any?!?!) are, isn’t going to risk The Hag (….) or vulnerable people at a diabetic foot clinic.

So…

Do you want Slave Son to take you?
Oh, he can’t manage as he’s disabled.*
So, do you want me to rearrange it?
That means you don’t want me to take me.
No, I can’t take you because I’m having to isolate because of Covid.
Huge childlike rage YOU DON’T WANT TO TAKE ME.

Screaming and shouting.

I cannot believe anyone can be this horrible. During the last few years, he’s become so assertive with her that she can’t bear it. If the rage doesn’t work, try crocodile tears. Neither makes MM shift his position.

The choice is - do you want me to rearrange it or do you want Slave Son to take you? Repeated during the course of the two separate calls she makes AFTER the first ‘here is the choice’ conversation. This is AFTER five or so calls about the heating.

Hag doing false tears. Hyperventilating.

Whimper: yes, rearrange it…

MM rearranges it.

Hag rings back.

Hag: Slave son will take me now.

MM: I’ve re arranged it.

Hag: Are you in tomorrow?

MM: Yes, we’ve got Covid.

Hag: I’ve got something for you. Am I allowed to post it through the door?

The ‘something’ will be an envelope of tenners as her ‘penance’ or BRIBE.

This is good as if it’s a £50, it’ll pay for one of his counselling sessions. Result.

And, of course, ladies and gentlemen, she did not enquire as to my health or ask whether we needed anything. Lolz.

Hoping for a bitter cold Siberian snap and a long term fault on the heating and the need for a care home built on the model of a Siberian gulag…

*his disability doesn’t preclude him from being her day to day lackey. OBVIOUSLY. Struggling to see how it’s more risky for Slave Son with MS AND clearly disabled to escort Hag into an NHS multi agency clinic rather than round a huge Tesco, but I’m less informed about the capabilities of trained medical professionals than I like to think these days.

His counselling is going brilliantly. Counsellor applauds his hard won boundaries and strategies. He’s not had a violent nightmare in six weeks. He’s starting to call out Slave Son’s part in all of this - toxic masculinity, martyrdom, laziness. And articulates perfectly the Hag’s emotional coercive abuse.

Counsellor gently posed the question: would the Hag ever come here? I know she wasn’t advocating this, but double-checking Mr Monkey’s sanity. I could hear his laughter from my sickbed.

Anyone got any ice?

This rant is also about the importance getting counselling - if you can, not enough NHS and too many counsellors thinking families can be healed - and HAMMERING the boundaries into place. Easier said than done. And so important to us, the poor fecking partners of the abused.

Hi all,

Mum still recovering from her bout of sepsis. Still no word on the outpatient tests so I'll have to phone tomorrow. I'm still having my weekends "off" which is lovely.

Sadly, fil is being investigated for parkinsons atm. I'm LC (with good reason) but am trying to support dh who is very upset. I've organised an appointment with a neurologist which dh asked me to do. I'm not really prepared to do anything else tbh.

I just have this "here we go again" feeling...

mouse my mum used to do that...behave atrociously/cruelly then leave £10/20 on my bed. Pretty fucked up, really.

Sorry!
monkey
(Brain fog)

Hello all,

I posted in August about my father's behaviour and there has been radio silence until this morning when my parents turned up. Long story short: my father threatened to hit me after I told him how awful he was and he swung at my partner. Eventually they left. I am appalled and the only way I'll speak to him again is through a medium.

Solidarity to all those with awful families. Take care of yourselves because your family won't take care of you.

I have name changed to join this thread. I have lurked for a long time but like many felt I was being overly dramatic as my childhood wasn't anywhere near what some people have had to deal with . However a lot of low level stuff has led me to seek therapy as I can't go on anymore with the confusion in my head.
The thing I struggle with most is trying to get perspective on what is the truth about my childhood. I was never allowed to express any negative emotions or dissatisfaction with any aspect of my childhood and my parents are very good at spinning the narrative in a way that exonerates them from any wrongdoing. They imply that everything they do is 100percent right and no one

Sorry posted too soon.
I can't ever quite reach the required standard and I am seeing more and more that my whole family is dysfunctional. I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes and it is all so clear now. I have a distant relationship with my mother and have basically employed the strategy of giving v little away because it is only ammunition to be used at some point in the future.
My father died a few years ago and since then I feel I am in free fall as my sister (who is a very difficult person anyway ) has become increasingly close to my mum and brother and I feel as though I am excluded from the wider family as a result.
It hurts because my sister has a habit of using me to get what she wants and dropping me when she has a better offer. She was my ally in that she was the only person who truly got the damage done to us during our childhoods and so it feels like a massive betrayal. I'm furious with myself for allowing her in to allow her hurt me all over again.
My birth family never talk about anything real and we all have to collude with the Disney fantasy of a childhood that was nothing short of perfect.
I am probably not making much sense but the whole thing has left me completely confused about what to think. I feel like I don't even know who I am anymore.

No, you make perfect sense. I feel like my family all just play their parts. ( I wont so im the devil)

@TryingNotToReact9to5
That's just it I don't want to play along anymore . I need to process my experiences and their impact on me for myself. Counselling is really helping but it is at the stage where I need to push through rather than squish it all back down again ( which has been my coping strategy all my life . Squash it back down then eat to try and self sooth it away )
I am finding myself full of rage now and struggle to know what to do with it !
I was brought up to believe all negative emotions were bad and that I should be accepting and happy come what may . I find I am wracked with guilt at even acknowledging how I really feel about some of my family members and I am even more conflicted because I really do love them and have no desire to hurt them in any way. It is exhausting trying to make sense of it all !