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Original poster

Prenup - would you sign?

167 replies

weddingbelles · 26/03/2022 10:55

I'm getting married in a few months and am getting increasingly uncomfortable with the idea of a prenup, which I originally agreed to sign. DP and I are both high earners (~£300k between us, i out-earn him by about £20k, had a £50k pay rise recently), but he's coming to the marriage with about £500k in equity (family money). My current savings are around £15k, I'm a single parent and have only started earning well in the last couple of years, plus most of my savings have gone on the wedding.

We've have the drafts of our prenup and it's so horribly sterile,in-depth, and prescriptive. I'm happy to put his family's minds at ease by saying I have no right to the money he's received from them - I have a high moral standard and wouldn't want to have a claim on it in the event of divorce, it's not mine so I would never feel I could go after it - but I understand it makes sense to them to have this legally stated. Fine.

What I hate about this document is that it goes into such granular detail about every single bit of our finances, even allocating ownership of our wedding gifts, and financial support of my DCs (he's not their dad, I would never expect him to financially support them, that's on me).

It feels so cold and inhuman, I really don't want to sign the bloody thing. I feel like the lawyers are wasting so much time with clauses I never agreed to sign on - I don't want to sign anything that isn't to do with the initial capital my DP is bringing into the marriage. The thought of the back and forth to get these legalities sorted before our wedding is really upsetting, at a time we're supposed to be celebrating how in love we are. I don't want his money, I'm just looking forward to spending my life with him!!

What would you do?

OP posts:
Original poster
weddingbelles · 26/03/2022 12:17

@Allsorts1

It makes absolutely no sense for you to sign such a detailed prenup when your earnings are similar and he just has a lump sum from his family - you only need a prenup when you’re marrying into large amounts of wealth. Surely you just ring fence this initial 500k in some way and then leave it at that?

You have my sympathies on how horrible the pre nup process is though!

I wouldn’t sign and I would look for alternative arrangements for protecting the 500k. But even that should be time limited, if you buy property together and build a life together and divorce after 15 years I don’t think it would be fair in that instance for him to leave with 500k more than you.

Thank you - I totally agree with this!
OP posts:
Momijin · 26/03/2022 12:18

Well I think he is right to ring fence such a huge amount of money should you split. Noone plans to divorce but the fact is that many marriages end in divorce. What will get messier is when you have a child/ren with him, how your existing children will be treated in the future. How much they would get. I wouldn't want my existing kids to be treated differently and to have different access to money. So that is something that is important to make clear now. Is your child with him going to get lots of money and not your other kids?

airrrrAIRRRRiELLLL · 26/03/2022 12:22

Stay single. You are both in a position where neither will be left penniless so apart from the connotations of 'being married' at the end of the day it's not necessary. There is so much nitty-gritty gone on that it would have left a bad taste in my mouth anyway. Also, regarding the pre-up, his assets will be protected because he brought them with him but your potential assets ie earning potential, will be made during the marriage so for him it's a win win.

jamandmarmaladeoncrumpets · 26/03/2022 12:28

With all my worldly goods i thee endow..?

This is a warning from the future.

Don't sign the marriage certificate it will end in tears

Original poster
weddingbelles · 26/03/2022 12:29

@Momijin

Well I think he is right to ring fence such a huge amount of money should you split. Noone plans to divorce but the fact is that many marriages end in divorce. What will get messier is when you have a child/ren with him, how your existing children will be treated in the future. How much they would get. I wouldn't want my existing kids to be treated differently and to have different access to money. So that is something that is important to make clear now. Is your child with him going to get lots of money and not your other kids?
No - we have done our wills and my children/any future children would be treated equally in terms of inheritance
OP posts:
jamandmarmaladeoncrumpets · 26/03/2022 12:31

@Ellie56

And another thing, if you allow PILS to stick their oar in now, what else are they going to interfere in further down the line?
this

it happened to me with a man i was to marry. PILS went on to choose his career, wife, where he lived, when to wed, what age to become a father...

a bullet well dodged....free!

Suretobe · 26/03/2022 12:32

[quote Gonnagetgoing]@weddingbelles - again, see a good family divorce lawyer separate to your fiancé and get them to talk you through it. Money worth spent in my opinion.[/quote]
If you do, don’t tell anyone. If you signed a prenup without independent legal advice at the time then that’s a good reason for getting it ignored by the divorce courts.

thequeenoftarts · 26/03/2022 12:35

Wel,l if there are going to be terms and conditions to your marriage start adding in a few of your own, like how much he has to pay you if he cheats on you or has a child by another woman ( mistress) by year according to how long you are married.

Also add in gift bonuses per child you have with him, an agreement to support you 100% through you maternity leave plus splitting all expenses to go with that cost equally.

He pays childcare ( nanny) for your existing children while you care for the new arrivals. Also get it in writing he will provide half of all childcare expenses until they are 18 or 23 if in college.

Add in private trust funds for your children ( his ones with you) and support for you and all the children in the event of a divorce, schooling, holidays etc. After all if you are both such high earners and have plenty of money all your children will become used to a certain standard of living in you marriage, why should they suffer if you divorce.

Add in the amount of housework you expect him to do, how many hours a week you expect him to be at home providing childcare while you work or define mutual time off to care for sick children.

Start talking brass tacks back and he might see how stupid the pre nup is getting to be, especially when it comes down to gifts etc ffs what he he buys you wedding night lingerie, will they want half it back in the event of a divorce.

Yes by all means its good to protect him and his assets prior to the marriage, but protect yours too both before and after the marriage.

Going to be very honest here and say it sounds like he is controlled by Daddy and the family, are you really sure you want to marry and have kids with him?

RantyAunty · 26/03/2022 12:35

Is the 500k money they gave him for a house?
Does your name go on the house at some point?

I'm really curious about the wedding gift clause!

Does he usually go along with what his parents say?
You live with him now. Does he do his fair share of cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc.?

Since you're making a lot more than him and will far outearn him, you'll have the opportunity for investments of your own.
If you buy an investment property, does he get to take half of that?

DaffTheDoggo · 26/03/2022 12:37

Feels like this has been taken out of your and your partner's hands by the lawyers. Why are you paying legal fees for your lawyer to negotiate on terms you have no intention of accepting in any form?

I'd tell your partner and your solicitor that you are happy to sign a simple prenup ring-fencing the 500k, nothing else. Does your partner actually want these additional terms? Possibly he's just instructed his lawyer to put together a standard agreement and actually isn't bothered about the other provisions. Does either of you really want to be arguing now about what happens to the wedding presents?

Familylawso1icitor · 26/03/2022 12:42

@Allsorts1

It makes absolutely no sense for you to sign such a detailed prenup when your earnings are similar and he just has a lump sum from his family - you only need a prenup when you’re marrying into large amounts of wealth. Surely you just ring fence this initial 500k in some way and then leave it at that?

You have my sympathies on how horrible the pre nup process is though!

I wouldn’t sign and I would look for alternative arrangements for protecting the 500k. But even that should be time limited, if you buy property together and build a life together and divorce after 15 years I don’t think it would be fair in that instance for him to leave with 500k more than you.

I’m a family lawyer. The only way to protect the £500k is a pre nup. And because you are agreeing what happens on divorce, and divorce must taken into account all of financial circumstances, it must cover, broadly, what will happen to all of your assets. they are horrendous documents but to have any chance of standing up, they have to be detailed. His lawyer is doing his job.
movingToGuildford1987 · 26/03/2022 12:43

Can you just give them back their 500k? Tell them you don't want it.

Original poster
weddingbelles · 26/03/2022 12:45

@thequeenoftarts

Wel,l if there are going to be terms and conditions to your marriage start adding in a few of your own, like how much he has to pay you if he cheats on you or has a child by another woman ( mistress) by year according to how long you are married.

Also add in gift bonuses per child you have with him, an agreement to support you 100% through you maternity leave plus splitting all expenses to go with that cost equally.

He pays childcare ( nanny) for your existing children while you care for the new arrivals. Also get it in writing he will provide half of all childcare expenses until they are 18 or 23 if in college.

Add in private trust funds for your children ( his ones with you) and support for you and all the children in the event of a divorce, schooling, holidays etc. After all if you are both such high earners and have plenty of money all your children will become used to a certain standard of living in you marriage, why should they suffer if you divorce.

Add in the amount of housework you expect him to do, how many hours a week you expect him to be at home providing childcare while you work or define mutual time off to care for sick children.

Start talking brass tacks back and he might see how stupid the pre nup is getting to be, especially when it comes down to gifts etc ffs what he he buys you wedding night lingerie, will they want half it back in the event of a divorce.

Yes by all means its good to protect him and his assets prior to the marriage, but protect yours too both before and after the marriage.

Going to be very honest here and say it sounds like he is controlled by Daddy and the family, are you really sure you want to marry and have kids with him?

If we have to go down the route of a detailed prenup, I will 100% be adding this clauses in!! Grin
OP posts:
Original poster
weddingbelles · 26/03/2022 12:46

@movingToGuildford1987

Can you just give them back their 500k? Tell them you don't want it.
It's in our house
OP posts:
SheldonesqueTheBstard · 26/03/2022 12:47

airrrrAIRRRRiELLLL

Aye. It certainly sounds like a win for him.

You may not turn grabby in the event of a split - what about him?

Original poster
weddingbelles · 26/03/2022 12:47

@Familylawso1icitor thank you! This is good to know.

Is it not possible to have a basic prenup just dealing with this £500k without going into detail on every single little thing?

OP posts:
LynetteScavo · 26/03/2022 12:55

Would I sign the pre-nup? Absolutely not. DH would never have asked me to sign one, and if his family had suggested it, he would have told them to get lost.

You need to have a conversation with your fiancé about whether he trusts you or not.

YanTanTethera01 · 26/03/2022 12:56

Most marriages end in divorce so a prenup is important but it has to be something you don't feel rail-loaded into signing. I'm interested why you only have £15k in savings but say you earn about £150k a year?? And you're spending all your savings on the wedding? Sounds like you could do with some sound financial advice all round.

SpidersAreShitheads · 26/03/2022 13:11

I’m about to enter into a complicated house purchase where my DM will have an annexe and us the main house. The majority of the purchase will be funded by my DM from the sale of her house, and the required building work from a small mortgage and equity from my house sale.

I’m engaged and have been with DP more than 10 yrs. I have DC which aren’t biologically his, although he considers himself as their dad. I need to know that he couldn’t ever try and claim the house if we split as it would mean the loss of a home for me and DC, but also my DM.

What we’ve gone is place the house in trust. He isn’t a trustee or a beneficiary in the house but he has a lifetime interest in it providing he is still in a relationship with me. So it provides him with protection of having a home but means he couldn’t ever try to claim the capital that was invested. Anything else is fair game if we got married and then split but it protects my DM’s inheritance while also giving him an interest.

I don’t know if any arrangement like this would work for you OP?

tempester28 · 26/03/2022 13:13

I would consider if you really need to get married? You already have kids and you are a high earner. I am not suggesting you split up but do you need to be married. With your combined earnings you can buy together and legally protect that. your partner can keep his equity separate and you can still have a happy life.

tribpot · 26/03/2022 13:13

we have done our wills and my children/any future children would be treated equally in terms of inheritance
Don't those wills get invalidated when you marry? Leaving him free to draw up a new will (not suggesting he would but it certainly seems likely his family would persuade him into less equal terms).

at which point we'd have to revisit the prenup and alter the terms
Or it's too late - at this point you're already pregnant. What if he announces he doesn't want to revisit the prenup? (Again for 'he' read 'his family').

Given you are both high earners, it does feel as if the simpler option would be to not marry. I appreciate you want to, but your commitment to each other isn't defined by that contract, you could still have a ceremony etc without it being legally binding.

In answer to your original question: no I would definitely not sign that pre-nup. My DH brought more capital into our marriage than I did, but has been too ill to work for the entire duration of it. (And he earned that money, it wasn't just handed to him). I would expect the fact I have been the sole earner for our entire marriage to be taken into account if we split.

I think you need to be clearer with your lawyer about what you want in the pre-nup (if you want one at all). This is a negotiation. If you want it only to ring-fence the 500K (not an unreasonable position), say so.

Rewis · 26/03/2022 13:15

Marriage is not always a sensible choice for all couples. You are both high earners that earn about the same amount of money and if you have no plans of being a sahm then marriage might not be the best option for you two.

Original poster
weddingbelles · 26/03/2022 13:18

@YanTanTethera01

Most marriages end in divorce so a prenup is important but it has to be something you don't feel rail-loaded into signing. I'm interested why you only have £15k in savings but say you earn about £150k a year?? And you're spending all your savings on the wedding? Sounds like you could do with some sound financial advice all round.
I've only started to earn this high in the last few years, I live in london and childcare has taken a huge wedge of my money
OP posts:
Sweepingeyelashes · 26/03/2022 13:34

I'm a great believer in these contracting out agreements. I live in a country where they are almost invariably enforced. We ringfenced our own assets and had assigned shares in our house depending on our mortgage contribution taking into account the time value of money. Almost everybody believes that they are marrying somebody who will not attempt to extract every last dollar out of them, including inheritances, even if they divorce. Sadly, many people change or reveal what they are really like in a divorce and will be prepared to argue over the ownership of a plastic bucket. I would not have married my husband without this agreement. He was independently advised and was happy to sign it. We have been married nearly 30 years and I'm pleased to say we've never had to rely on the agreement. Marriage is a legal relationship - you have huge childcare costs and bring little capital to the marriage. If this were my son, I would absolutely want to protect his interests. If it's fair I can't see the problem in signing.

tara66 · 26/03/2022 13:42

From experience - in UK they are not worth the paper they are written on.