How do I approach my sis? She’s ruining her life

[WhoopsyDaisy1]

Long ramble but don’t want to have to drip feed.

She doesn’t work and is on benefits. Has 2DC, one at primary school and one who is not yet at school age. She doesn’t drive and so a walk to drop off DC to school takes about 25 mins and so 4/5 times during the week she relies on everybody else to take DC to school and pick him up. Whether it be our mum, her friends, distant friends, me and so on... If she can’t find anyone to take him (she relies so heavily on favours that she’s exhausted all of her options now) then she will either take a taxi or leaves him off school. His attendance is atrocious and he loves school which is heartbreaking.

Her house is an absolute tip because ‘she has no energy to tidy’ and all she does is sleep or lay on the sofa. Her DC2 is awake at night because they nap so much throughout the day and then she uses it as an excuse to not get up in the morning to take DC1 to school and it’s a never ending cycle.

Even on a bright and sunny day she will just stay indoors and sleep/nap/do nothing.

She says she feels unwell pretty much every day yet if it’s the weekend/half term she’s absolutely fine and is never too unwell to go out drinking or socialise if the opportunity is there.

Her partner works and comes home and the house is a mess, my sis is asleep or looks a state (that sounds harsh but she really does - has put on a lot of weight and makes no effort in her appearance) and will still be in her PJs and so I feel like their relationship is really being affected. Her partner is struggling having to do the school run after work, tidy the house, get dinner, make dinner etc when she’s been at home all day. He has made passing comments to our mum.

She is on meds for depression which I sympathise with but also think she’s got herself into a rut now and uses her MH as an excuse to do jack shit.

Every time I (gently) approach her about this subject she gets so angry with me, hangs the phone up or refuses to see me. I know it’s out of embarrassment but she is in denial and now I’m walking on eggshells and at a loss as to what to do and how to help her?

It’s affecting her whole life, her relationships and my nephew/niece livelihoods. Any advice is appreciated.

I probably wouldn't speak to you either with your dismissive attitude to mental health issues.

Thank you all for your comments. I realise myself how bad it has got but reading others comments hits home even harder.

Her partner is helpful. He can of course improve in many ways but generally, he is supportive. He leaves for work early so can’t do the school run, he works in trade so sometimes finishes early and will go and get him if that’s the case.

They can’t afford day care for their little one so I’m hoping once they can then she might get herself into a better routine.

We (as in her family) help out as much as we can, with school runs, I’ve tidied the house, done her washing, and I try so hard to get her out of the house. However we have our own lives, family and school runs to do ourselves (I have a baby too) so it’s difficult to be there all the time. I check in with her every day but as I said in my OP, if I broach the subject she doesn’t want to speak to me about it. She has friends but they too have their own families.

Her children are aged 7 and 1.

Depression can lead to real exhaustion and disrupted sleep patterns. What seems like just a 25 min walk can be an epic struggle for people with depression. That being said, she is neglecting the children and I think services need to be involved. Do you have a good relationship with her partner? Can he be supported as well to get the kids to school or is that impossible with his working pattern?

Please ignore those people saying not to involve SS - there are young children here whose education is being neglected, sounds like they are stuck in a house most days too. No proper sleeping routine, and a Mum who actually needs help.
They won't take the children away, why do people always assume that. They are there to offer help and support - which it sounds like your sister most definitely needs.
She's lucky you have noticed all this and are looking at ways to help.

All these slating the op are ridiculous. She's looking out for the dcs too. And the poor dh.

I've had pnd but realised what a mess my house was in. I still got dcs to school and nursery. She sounds as if she's gone too far and needs more help. It's great she has so many who are concerned.

Those dcs are priority though.

Sounds like she's fallen into a major depressive rut - I've been there, thankfully didn't have young kids at the time though

doing that school run every day would help her so much

These rules I imposed on myself sorted me out

1. Meds - she's got those, so there's a start

1. no day napping - have to get sleep schedule sorted

1. get vitamins tested and sorted - my vit d was dangerously low

1. walk every day - that's where the school run would be handy

1. meal planning and no takeaways - both to save money and help losing weight

But - I realised and decided to do all these things myself. I realised that stuff I was doing to make life 'easier' was actually making it harder (no exercise, takeaways etc) so I honestly don't know how to approach

@MrsBerthaRochester

I’m sorry it’s been hard for you but you are seriously projecting your own experiences on to me so please stop with the name calling.

I’ve tried to keep the post as less specific as possible with the fear of being identified. My sister means the world to me, hence why I’m on here asking for advice. I help her out as much as I possibly can, I’m always there at the end of the phone, I help her out financially, with her kids, if she needs advice, I’m younger than her but have always taken the responsibility as the big sister with our other siblings. I am genuinely worried about her and my nephew and niece. Why else would I ask MN?

they’re always fed and clean

I'd that down to her or her dp?

I'd call SS too.

The problem is the 7 years old is missing a lot of school and will fall very behind very quickly. If none of the parents can manage the school run then they have to make sacrifices somewhere financially and pay for someone else to do it for them.

@Quitelikeit

I think you could ask her how you could help? Maybe take the youngest and keep her awake during the day so she sleeps at night

Also I wounded if her Antidepressant is making her sleepy during the day so she should try taking it at a completely different time

Does she have friends? Does she go to toddler groups etc

Thank you. I did think about her depressants making her sleepy and I’ve asked her to speak to the Gp again about this.

Shes tried toddlers groups but because she doesn’t drive, again it’s a walk and a bit of a slog. Her intentions are there but when it actually comes down to it, she doesn’t have the get up and go.

I do help her as much as I can but I have a 12 week old baby so i am a bit limited at the moment. I’ll continue to ask her, I do think she thinks she’s being a burden on me.

@Newrunner29

She is on meds for depression which I sympathise with but also think she’s got herself into a rut now and uses her MH as an excuse to do jack shit.

That's not an excuse that literally what depression is! It can be debilitating which makes general day to day tasks impossible, u don't sound that supportive. U sound very judgemental. And I feel for ur sister.

I completely understand that MH can be debilitating, I just feel that there are days when she blames her MH to not even try. Then because she feels guilty about not doing anything productive, it affects her MH more. It’s a never ending cycle.

As I said, when it’s the weekend/half term or there’s a party/night out, she’s absolutely fine. No illness, no fatigue. I get that people can put on a mask with MH but it’s like she’s a different person when shes out socialising or there’s an event on. This isn’t to slate her in the slightest, it’s factual information.

@PriestessofPing

Depression can lead to real exhaustion and disrupted sleep patterns. What seems like just a 25 min walk can be an epic struggle for people with depression. That being said, she is neglecting the children and I think services need to be involved. Do you have a good relationship with her partner? Can he be supported as well to get the kids to school or is that impossible with his working pattern?

Yes especially every day, there and back.

I do have a good relationship with her partner, I see him as my BIL although they’re not married but we don’t have the type of relationship where he would openly talk to me about their private life.

There might be something we could work out if we all put our heads together so I could give that a try. Thank you. I did mention moving her DC to a school closer to home but when she’s asked her DC about it, he understandably doesn’t want to.

@Newrunner29

I'll also like to add being in a bigger body doesn't change her value into the world. Ur not a worse person in a bigger body

Of course it doesn’t What a stupid thing to say.

I am not saying being a bigger person is a bad thing. However if she’s drastically putting on weight, which I know she is unhappy with, then there’s a problem isn’t there?

@MrsBerthaRochester

Message deleted by MNHQ: Quotes deleted post

I'm gonna have to gently disagree, as someone who comes from a family with mental health problems, it impacts the whole family in ways not everyone thinks of. I have always been there for my mum, but one of the most frustrating things about my mum is that she had no desire to help herself and her situation, didn't go to the doctors, didn't go to therapy, didn't try any of the things we told her to try, just wallowed. Mental illnesses are real and are awful, but unfortunately, people who have them have to do the work for themselves, no body else can really fix them. OPs sister is a mum and has kids who are being affected by this and will be affected by it their whole lives, she owes it to them to do something about it.

@Lubeyboobyalt

Sounds like she's fallen into a major depressive rut - I've been there, thankfully didn't have young kids at the time though

doing that school run every day would help her so much

These rules I imposed on myself sorted me out

1. Meds - she's got those, so there's a start

1. no day napping - have to get sleep schedule sorted

1. get vitamins tested and sorted - my vit d was dangerously low

1. walk every day - that's where the school run would be handy

1. meal planning and no takeaways - both to save money and help losing weight

But - I realised and decided to do all these things myself. I realised that stuff I was doing to make life 'easier' was actually making it harder (no exercise, takeaways etc) so I honestly don't know how to approach

Thank you for this. I’ve tried to get her into a better routine by suggesting things to do to make it easier - headphones and listen to music or podcasts on the walk, I’ve suggested bulk cooking and freezing food, I’ve suggested speaking to her GP to see if they can do a sleep assessment on her. She says they’re all good ideas but then doesn’t do anything about it. It is going to take her to do something about it herself for real change - you can lead a horse to water... the no day napping rule would really help her I think. I’ll try suggesting this.

@LottyD32

they’re always fed and clean

I'd that down to her or her dp?

I'd call SS too.

That’s down to my sis.

Sounds like less well-controlled depression and unless you've experienced it, the talk of 'not even trying' just demonstrates a lack of understanding. It can take a long time and lots of iterations of medications and dosed to manage it with medication and sometimes some patients aren't manageable on medication alone and sometimes previously stable patients deteriorate. It's not all negative as some patients lead a positive life and some manage difficult periods with medication then, with help, can stop medication. Exercise and other therapies can help but the 'not even try' and even the 'absolutely fine at the weekend' to go out for a drink might just demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of the condition. Most of my patients get told to 'pull themselves together' by loved ones, usually older male relatives IME, and none of them are able to or else they would have done already.

If you want advice, you might try and understand it better rather than being judgmental as that may lead to alienation of the sister you say you love.

Good luck.

I feel for all of you OP

Don’t give her more than you can afford to in terms of money, time or help. You have your own family who need you too.

Could her partner talk to their HV?

“ I’ve tried to get her into a better routine by suggesting things to do to make it easier - headphones and listen to music or podcasts on the walk, I’ve suggested bulk cooking and freezing food”

The thing is, when depressed you might as well suggest jogging up Mount Everest as suggest these, they are equally difficult when you’re in that state.

Could someone help her to ring the gp and take her/go to an appointment with her?

The youngest is 1, could she have PND? Sleep issues are normal at that age too, and will exacerbate mental health stuff.

Is there anyone who could have the children over night occasionally so she has a chance to catch up and see that things need to change?

A 25 minute walk to school (and back, and the same at pick up time) must feel incredibly daunting. I wonder if school might have an idea how to help with this?

If the 7 yr old’s attendance is a problem school will be on it and are likely to being in a welfare officer, which may help to get some plans into action.

Do you think there might be something else going on other than depression? The first thing I would do is encourage her to see her GP. She might have ME, fibromyalgia, endometriosis, or be anaemic. She sounds to have poor health generally and certain physical health conditions can cause or exacerbate depression.

When I was depressed I used to write stupid lists of the smallest tasks to break things right down and make them more manageable. I used to write things down and tick things off that I'd already done.

I downloaded the Headspace app and would listen to their free 10 minute meditations.

I would offer to go round and help her tidy up and get things under control, perhaps on a regular basis. She might not want this but it would be nice to offer.

Has it been considered whether she has inattentive ADHD - its a chemical imbalance in the brain - not enough dopamine which is a motivational hormone so struggles to manage mundane tasks and chases dopamine highs like eating.

OP to try and help understanding but at the risk of using an analogy that may be offensive in all directions, plenty of people know they need to lose weight. Does telling someone overweight they need to lose weight achieve anything? Does telling them to eat less and exercise more lead to those changes? Some people think they do but the obesogenic society in the UK has no shortage of over weight people. The words that come out of your mouth won't be anything they've never heard nor thought of themselves before. That's not to say overweight people shouldn't lose weight nor that many don't eventually make those changes.

If you are naturally slim and unable to imagine yourself into their shoes, how about alcohol? Does telling a dependent drinker to drink less directly lead to a reduction in consumption?

Now it depends on the nature of the patient's depression and how close they are to being able to benefit from non-medication treatments but to make the analogy more offensive, there are some patients with depression for whom such talk would be the equivalent of telling a patient with cancer just to stop having cancer.

Good luck.

I suffer from major depression, it has got better, but sometimes doing the school run seems like hiking to the end of the earth.

I think one problem, is you do have to actively engage to get better, but start really small, things like getting up and getting dressed can be enough.

I also engaged with the school and social services (there was a lot of shit going on at the time, so lots of different services were involved) and got a lot of help that way, along with the mental health crisis team, but while I had the support of my family, I had to get the ball rolling on it.

'Most gps are still refusing to even see patients face to face' - really?

The last time I looked, the % of all appointments F2F was over 60% and that relating to a significantly higher number of appointments than pre-pandemic. I can't find a % of GPs not offering F2F appointments and would need to look at the maths but if 60% of all appointments are F2F then I'm not sure if it is possible that 'Most gps are still refusing to even see patients face to face'. Still don't let that stop the GP-bashing. Don't try to think why there is a funded campaign to undermine primary care.

BTW, we never had a single day in the last 2+ years when we didn't see patients F2F. And we are offering more appointments than 3 years ago. And that's without considering the many thousands of vaccines we delivered in care homes and to the walking. And home visits. And with staff ill with COVID and long COVID.

Enjoy the offshore remote consults when primary care gets corporatised.

So many people seem to be ignoring the fact the sister is happy to do social things/go out drinking, it seems she's only too depressed when it comes to looking after her children.

Depression is not an excuse to neglect your kids. She has a responsibility to seek help if she's struggling so much. And before anyone says it, yes I have suffered from depression. I got help because it's not OK to neglect children.