Should he have offered to pay for the holiday?

[TheSparkling]

I really need some thoughts on the situation I find myself in. I was widowed over 3 years ago and I've been in a new relationship for 9 months now. Apart from being married I have little experience of relationships which is why I'm asking for advise and opinions here.
My bf is a really lovely man and we seem to get on very well. We are very similar in lots of ways. Last year we had a weekend away together in a UK city which went well. Today bf suggested we book a week in Greece in Sept. All lovely, looked at some apartments and hotels and had a chat about what we would like etc. All good.
Except I've come home and gone through my budget and I know I can't afford it. I think i knew at the time but I got caught up a little in the excitement because I've not been abroad for 3 years like many people.

The thing is my bf knows money is really short for me. I have 3 dependent teenagers, I work and I'm a single parent. I have no other financial support, there is no pension or anything from my husband. My budget is tight and i struggle to pay for extras although I manage to save a small amount each month to cover this. During our chat about a holiday I expected my bf to offer to pay for the holiday. I don't know if I was unreasonable to do so? I didn't say that to him at the time but as I was driving home I became increasingly upset about it.

I'm not exactly sure why tbh. He said to me we could book it and you can pay me back even if that's after the holiday. But I don't want to be in debt to him (or to anybody).

Please tell me if I'm being unfair to him or should I not be expecting him to offer to pay more towards the holiday? (He is financially better off, no kids, mortgage paid, works full time.)

To answer a few points - I am claiming everything I am entitled to in terms of benefits. This is purely child tax credits which tops up my wages.
I don't expect him to pay because he is a man or because I am a widow or any other kind of sob story. I raised my hopes a little because my BF is fully aware of my financial position (not down to the last penny but pretty much so) and if the tables were turned I would have been offering to cover more than half the costs. Especially as the holiday was his idea and he wanted me to come. He has friends and does go away with them.

I think as a few posters have pointed out it isn't that he didn't offer its more the not being aware of my lack of awareness. His idea of understanding is looking for a much cheaper holiday than he would normally have had. But even that is out of my budget.

It is interesting how people on here define a new or casual relationship. I met and married my late DH within 9 months and I am aware that is unusual but not unique. Bf and I have known each other for nearly a year and been dating for a good 9 months of that. That to me feels like a steady relationship, we tell each we love each other and I feel like on every other issue he totally gets me. Is 9 months still casual? What number of months is correct number for a relation ship to be offical and long term?

One last thing - there have been some lovely kind posters who absolutely get my situation and have offered their support - so thank you.

I will be talking to my bf tonight about the not happening holiday.

I don’t get why you expect him to pay for you at all, regardless of how long you e been together. You aren’t married , you aren’t even living together.

@DesertStorms

I don’t get why you expect him to pay for you at all, regardless of how long you e been together. You aren’t married , you aren’t even living together.

So what? I paid for my best friend to go on holiday. There isn’t a set f rules for it.

Good luck OP. Tbh I think as you get older convos like this are just a necessity. Regardless of the outcome, you are better off knowing either way.

I’m not sure how you can straight faced say you don’t want financial support when you have him pay for 75% of your dates and want him to take you on holiday? This is financial support. And now yoire going to talk to him about money, what does that talk look like, is it just you can’t afford it or you want to ask him to pay for you to have a holiday?

Is the truth of this that you got excited as you thought he was giving you a free holiday?

@Sassbott

Good luck OP. Tbh I think as you get older convos like this are just a necessity. Regardless of the outcome, you are better off knowing either way.

Completely agree with this - all the best with the conversation.

@Orchidsonthetable - I have never asked for financial support. He has offered to pay on dates or stopped me paying when I have offered. And I won't be asking him to pay for this holiday either. Nothing is booked so like a few other posters have said I will be saying that I have looked at my budget and I actually can't afford it so he will have to ask one of his friends to go with him.

I didn't think at any point that this would be a free holiday, the last one we went on wasn't so why should I think that this time?

@Sassbott - thank you, I agree its better to have the conversation and know where we both stand as otherwise it is going to cause problems further down the road. He is a good guy and I we get on so well I can see us having a future together so it's probably time to discuss this.

Like I said earlier I am not sure when dating turns into a relationship and where the magic number of months lies?

You’re defintely in a relationship and it sounds serious. I don’t think anyone can predict it’s long term for you at this stage as it’s just months in, you don’t live together, have made no commitments to one another and don’t share finances.

@TheSparkling I don’t think it’s cut and dry.

I think it varies person to person, based on their personal circumstances, baggage (@AnotherRandomMale makes some really good points in his post re baggage) and medium to longer term expectations of life/ relationships. These conversations are further complicated when children pre date the new relationship.

As someone in their forties who was bruised financially in their divorce and then had a on/off LAT relationship where my exp had increasing financial expectations on me and what I ‘should want to pay for.’ (Language that provokes a very hostile reaction from me now) I am now highly guarded around my finances and if I was 9 months into a relationship? I wouldn’t be paying for a partner. Because my previous history has taught me the hard learned lesson that with some people when you give an inch, they take a mile. Unfair? Yes. Do I plan to shift that stance anytime soon? No. I will take my time getting to know someone and see how they are regards money. I will also prioritise myself over a partner every single day of the week. Because when I pay hundreds or thousands to sub a partner, that’s money not in an ISA etc that will ultimately provide for me or my children.

For others without my baggage? It may be a different ballgame.

It’s why I said very early on. There are no rights or wrongs in these situations. Just experience and perspective.

Hello OP, I can see that quite a few people responded to your post and I probably will not add anything new. I understand the position you are in, financially and that you are not able to afford a holiday like that. If I were you that is exactly would I would tell him, "I would love to go on a holiday like that with you, but there is no way that I can afford it". If he then offers to pay for you and you are ok with it, great, if not, you two will have to find something that you both are comfortable with.

All the best to you.

Just wanted to say i can only imagine how hard it must be for you to adjust to this new relationship after your dh passing and you're absolutely right to be proud of you and your dc for getting through that hope your talk with bf goes well

It is interesting how people on here define a new or casual relationship. I met and married my late DH within 9 months and I am aware that is unusual but not unique. Bf and I have known each other for nearly a year and been dating for a good 9 months of that. That to me feels like a steady relationship, we tell each we love each other and I feel like on every other issue he totally gets me. Is 9 months still casual? What number of months is correct number for a relation ship to be offical and long term?
If you'd been together 9 months and were married and/or living together, people wouldn't be saying that it's still early days - it isn't just about the number of months really, is it? It's about the level of commitment you're both taking on. I've been with my bf for 5 years, but I don't even have a key to his flat. We see each other 2-3 days a week. We don't share finances. It's really not the same as if we were married, buying a house together, having children (at our age, that is not going to happen). There isn't a simple dichotomy between casual and serious.

With my exh, first we earned the same, then we pooled finances as soon as we had children, so like you, it's taken me a while to get how this new situation works.

Have you thought about working a few more hours or is that not an option?

@AnotherRandomMale
So what you are saying is young and hot get everything paid for. 100/0

Same age, not so hot, good for now gals it's 50/50

@RantyAunty

Yeah thats basically what hes saying.

As long as OP is MILF( (wtf) she can expect him to pay because he is getting something out of it. If not, then why would he bother. Thats what I got from that.

I'm amazed you understood anything from AnotherRandomMale's comment. I couldn't make head nor tail of it - have no idea if I agree with him or am disgusted by his comments

This is mumsnet and you aren't necessarily going to get a range of opinions once the swarm has descended, because everyone knows that they will sting to death anyone who disagrees with the view that women should pay their way.

Of course women should pay their way! However, this doesn't mean that you can't expect your boyfriend to treat you. Whether thats a small or large treat will depend on circumstances. When I was single, I dated men who paid for everything, despite my protests and attempts to do otherwise. I've not had a holiday paid for, I had an entire apartment and car to drive provided by a man who I wasn't even sleeping with but was casually dating (and didn't go on to sleep with either). Different sectors of society have different rules. Some wealthy men just like to be generous with their wealth if it means they get the company of a woman they find attractive and interesting to spend time with. The rules that are being espoused on here just wouldn't apply to certain sections of society.

I think in the circumstances, I'd expect your bf to have paid for the holiday quietly if he suggested it. It could be that he simply doesn't realise you would struggle to afford it or feels awkward in suggesting it. Perhaps the suggestion to pay you back is his way of saying he is paying for you but he is awkward about it? Otherwise what would you do? Bank transfer into his account? Have a payment plan of so much per month? Thats just really crass.

However if this relationship requires a lot of money on your part to keep it going, which you don't have, good luck to him finding a woman with no committments with the finances to keep up with him. Then he can go and find a single woman in her twenties with a good job prepared to date him (good luck to him with that!). Literally any adult male will know that being a single mother of 3 teenagers means that holidays with a boyfriend is going to be difficult and not your priority.

I'd be wary of a man like this since he might be testing you to see how far you are prepared to financially stretch for him.

Well I think we all know there is certain sections of society where men paying for womens “company” is a thing.

@Bookworm20

I know he's just one sexist guy, but I can imagine there are quite a few who think the same way.

Reminds me of the women that live with someone for 10 years waiting for marriage (no ring, 50/50 or worse) and then he goes off and marries straight the very next woman within a year in a big splashy wedding, big ring, etc.

A guy who is into you and serious acts differently.
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@Orchidsonthetable

Well I think we all know there is certain sections of society where men paying for womens “company” is a thing.

You sound utterly charming. You do realise that not everyone is the same as you? You sound as though you have never met a man who has offered to pay for your dinner, so foreign is the concept to you.

I also grew up in Switzerland part of the time, and many people there have a different level of old European manners.

@SucculentChalice You're posting on mumsnet, in what way are you not a member of the "swarm", or different from any other individual poster? Your opinion and experiences may not be one that a majority of people share - presumably only a very small minority of us have experienced being a wealthy man's funded companion - but here you are, posting it alongside the rest of us, offering a range of opinions.

All relationships are transactional to a degree. It's just that in Western society we don't like to call it out, as we prefer to base our practices on a premise of romantic love.

In this case if we get this down to bare bones. OPs DP wants them to go on holiday abroad together. OP also wants this, but cannot afford it without a period of saving up for it.

OPs DP needs to decide if he is prepared to pay for OP to go, or wait until she is in a position to pay her own way. Neither viewpoint is wrong, but if he could easily have afforded a more expensive holiday, then it seems to me he'd get more enjoyment out of the holiday than not. OP had also reciprocated in the same spirit by inviting him along for a few days to family trip.

I think the problem you’re having is that you are being a bit coy about your expectations.

If you want a traditional relationship with a man as a provider then you really do need a man who is going to be generous and pay in this kind of situation. It sounds to me like you married your late husband quickly and it was probably quite a traditional relationship? There’s nothing wrong with moving on and looking to remarry. There’s nothing wrong with looking for a man who is a provider either.

But there’s no point on an anonymous forum saying things like “I don’t expect them to pay “when you obviously do. You want someone who is going to be generous with their money. You want someone who is going to step in and take financial responsibility. You probably want him to recognise that you are 10 years younger. He gets a beautiful younger wife and a readymade family. You get taken care of.

Fine. If that’s what you want then OF COURSE, you ANBU in expecting him to pay.

You sound as though you have never met a man who has offered to pay for your dinner, so foreign is the concept to you.
I also grew up in Switzerland part of the time, and many people there have a different level of old European manners.

@SucculentChalice 😂😂😂😂. There is no differing levels of old European manner in Switzerland (and yes I have spent time there also).
If you are happy with a man paying for your time in exchange for a flat/ car/ dinner. Then that’s all you and that’s your choice. You know exactly what you are doing. In exchange for priority on your time/ company men/ or a man have paid in other ways. That’s not right or wrong, it’s how society has worked since the beginning of time (or certainly since the notion of money being exchanged for goods was introduced).

Please don’t dress this up as old European manners however. Call a spade a spade and own it.

On a side note, @AnotherRandomMale post made complete sense to me. I don’t know if I agree with it all, but it’s not completely untruthful. It’s a perspective that I have seen play out where I work (tech). Older men in their 40’s/50’s/ 60’s hooking up with women in their 20’s/ 30’s. Oftentimes the men at this level (even post divorce) are millionaires. The women are not.

The marrieds do expensive dinners/ shopping trips for handbags in exchange for ‘company over dinner’ / attending work away trips together. The divorcees often end up with a much younger wife and second family. Both sides of the party know what they are signing up for in these relationships re finances. Not once does the woman pick up the tab.

Is real love involved? Who knows? But the fact that people on here seem 😱 that a poster is pointing out it happens? Happens far more than most would care to realise (and yes, especially amongst older/ wealthier married men).