Should he have offered to pay for the holiday?

[TheSparkling]

I really need some thoughts on the situation I find myself in. I was widowed over 3 years ago and I've been in a new relationship for 9 months now. Apart from being married I have little experience of relationships which is why I'm asking for advise and opinions here.
My bf is a really lovely man and we seem to get on very well. We are very similar in lots of ways. Last year we had a weekend away together in a UK city which went well. Today bf suggested we book a week in Greece in Sept. All lovely, looked at some apartments and hotels and had a chat about what we would like etc. All good.
Except I've come home and gone through my budget and I know I can't afford it. I think i knew at the time but I got caught up a little in the excitement because I've not been abroad for 3 years like many people.

The thing is my bf knows money is really short for me. I have 3 dependent teenagers, I work and I'm a single parent. I have no other financial support, there is no pension or anything from my husband. My budget is tight and i struggle to pay for extras although I manage to save a small amount each month to cover this. During our chat about a holiday I expected my bf to offer to pay for the holiday. I don't know if I was unreasonable to do so? I didn't say that to him at the time but as I was driving home I became increasingly upset about it.

I'm not exactly sure why tbh. He said to me we could book it and you can pay me back even if that's after the holiday. But I don't want to be in debt to him (or to anybody).

Please tell me if I'm being unfair to him or should I not be expecting him to offer to pay more towards the holiday? (He is financially better off, no kids, mortgage paid, works full time.)

I earn more than my DP and probably always will, absolutely no way would I have paid more than 50% for a holiday at 9 months in. Now that we live together as a team we split things in comparison to how much we earn and have a joint household income but if I’d have been expected to pick up more of the financial tab that early in I wouldn’t have been impressed and that quite possibly would have been a deal breaker for me.

@Londondreams1

I still don’t get it. I don’t hesitate to pay for someone to do something more expensive, if I knew they can’t afford it (a particular restaurant when I visit my brother for example) , so if I’m with a man who has no children or dependents as who earns considerably more (often) due to being a bloke, why wouldn’t he just pay and how can that be seen as grabby?

Because your brother is your brother? I pick up the tab more when I’m out with my best friend because she struggles with money and I know she won’t take the piss. We have also been friends for a very long time. I wouldn’t do this with newer friends.

Nine months when you don’t live together is a relatively new and casual relationship. My answer would be completely different if they lived together or were together for a longer amount of time. I certainly wouldn’t be paying more for my DP in the beginning as I wouldn’t want to set up a precedent, nor would I want to feel like an idiot if I paid for my boyfriend of nine months holiday and then we broke up.

Cannot understand why people sit there dreamily about holidays etc without having a chat about funding and how much each can afford.

Not fool proof of course, the chancers still try and give a limit they cannot afford without making huge cutbacks etc, then try the pity card to get the other person to pay more.

When I'm with a new partner, I usually suggest a holiday within a year. Easy way to wean out the freeloaders who are expecting me to subsidise their lifestyles, from the ones that value me for me.

@Londondreams1

I still don’t get it. I don’t hesitate to pay for someone to do something more expensive, if I knew they can’t afford it (a particular restaurant when I visit my brother for example) , so if I’m with a man who has no children or dependents as who earns considerably more (often) due to being a bloke, why wouldn’t he just pay and how can that be seen as grabby?

You’d pay to take a boyfriend of nine months on holiday abroad? Go you. But I’d not. I’d expect him to pay his way at that early stage. Later on in a settled relationship sure, you split contribution by earnings, but no way at nine months I’m treating boyfriends to holidays abroad.

The issue here is it’s not a question of he’s offered, and she’s not sure should she accept, the issue here is she’s hoping he will pay for her to go on holiday. That’s why people think it’s grabby. No one should be expecting someone to pay for them to have a holiday abtoad after a few months.

I also suspect the issue is not thay the op thought she couLd afford it. More she thought he was treating her to a free holiday until he said you can pay me back

Did posters miss this from OP. She is treating him on the UK holiday.

I have booked a UK holiday for myself and dc (daughter won't fly due to anxiety). My bf is coming to join us for 2 days. I haven't asked him to contribute anything at all because he is guest. Likewise I wouldn't expect him to if he was staying for all of it because most of the cost would be myself and my dc. And I wouldn't invite him if I couldn't afford it.

I don't know who thought up the 50/50 bs but 50/50 just doesn't work.
Men already start from privilege. It isn't a level playing field. Women in general make less. Our expenses are more. Clothing, haircuts, BC, beauty products. A man will never be pregnant, breastfeed. Even though women are graduating at higher rates than men, once a woman has a child, her income usually never recovers. Women are expected to work full time jobs and do the majority of the housework and childcare. We're working a lot more; a double shift even for a lot less.

So a man with his privilege making 80k while she is part time at 15k, there is no way it will ever be 50/50 financially. So he needs to be generous and offer to treat someone he is seriously interested in.

OP I think you are jumping the gun a bit.

At 9 months, your bf likely doesn't know the ins and outs of your financial situation and he may even offer to pay for you/pay more when you tell him you just can't afford to go. I have done this for my partner who earns less than me and has children to pay for too.

I definitely don't think you should write the relationship off because of financial differences. But I think you do need to bear in mind that people don't tend to start becoming financially entwined until much further down the line, so I don't think it's fair to expect him to support you in that sense until quite a while from now.

He will likely know that a 50/50 split is not possible with someone in your situation, but probably doesn't think that's relevant yet.

She's having a family holiday which I'd imagine she'd already arranged and he's coming for a 2 day visit @RantyAunty. Of course she can't charge him. I'm sure he'll take them out to dinner or something.

It's not the same at all. And where did you get the earnings from? You've just made them up.

As for your list of women's expenses

@RantyAunty

Did posters miss this from OP. She is treating him on the UK holiday.

I have booked a UK holiday for myself and dc (daughter won't fly due to anxiety). My bf is coming to join us for 2 days. I haven't asked him to contribute anything at all because he is guest. Likewise I wouldn't expect him to if he was staying for all of it because most of the cost would be myself and my dc. And I wouldn't invite him if I couldn't afford it.

I don't know who thought up the 50/50 bs but 50/50 just doesn't work.
Men already start from privilege. It isn't a level playing field. Women in general make less. Our expenses are more. Clothing, haircuts, BC, beauty products. A man will never be pregnant, breastfeed. Even though women are graduating at higher rates than men, once a woman has a child, her income usually never recovers. Women are expected to work full time jobs and do the majority of the housework and childcare. We're working a lot more; a double shift even for a lot less.

So a man with his privilege making 80k while she is part time at 15k, there is no way it will ever be 50/50 financially. So he needs to be generous and offer to treat someone he is seriously interested in.

No, I don’t think anyone missed it. But we assume he’s paying to get himself there and the op isn’t paying and as he is just joining her she is incurring no additional costs and he’s contributing to food. She didn’t say she was paying for him to come. It’s a very different scenario. She’s there anyway.

OP I think you need to go back to him - possibly by message so you don't miss anything out and he has time to reflect in what you've said - and tell him you've been looking through your finances and you got over excited and simply can't afford a trip abroad, particularly as you've already got a UK break in the calendar ( which may prompt him to think about the fact that you've not asked him for money for that) and can't let the girls down.

You can also say that you can't take him up on his offer to lend you the money because your circumstances will be the same next year.

I'd maybe finish by saying that you're really sorry and you would love to go away with him and could do it next year as you have longer to save.

I would hope he'd offer to contribute at that point.

@RantyAunty

Did posters miss this from OP. She is treating him on the UK holiday.

I have booked a UK holiday for myself and dc (daughter won't fly due to anxiety). My bf is coming to join us for 2 days. I haven't asked him to contribute anything at all because he is guest. Likewise I wouldn't expect him to if he was staying for all of it because most of the cost would be myself and my dc. And I wouldn't invite him if I couldn't afford it.

I don't know who thought up the 50/50 bs but 50/50 just doesn't work.
Men already start from privilege. It isn't a level playing field. Women in general make less. Our expenses are more. Clothing, haircuts, BC, beauty products. A man will never be pregnant, breastfeed. Even though women are graduating at higher rates than men, once a woman has a child, her income usually never recovers. Women are expected to work full time jobs and do the majority of the housework and childcare. We're working a lot more; a double shift even for a lot less.

So a man with his privilege making 80k while she is part time at 15k, there is no way it will ever be 50/50 financially. So he needs to be generous and offer to treat someone he is seriously interested in.

She’s not raising his children though. It’s not like she’s made those sacrifices for him. And half the women on this thread are detailing examples where they’ve been the higher earning partner.

I don’t think it should be 50/50 necessarily. But the idea that a man must always be paying for women because they are women is completely anti- feminist and wrong.

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove

I felt really sad reading this from the OP:

At the time I knew I could afford to set aside a little bit of money to do something and the £600 holiday didn't seem to far outside that. So I did think if I cut this and sell a few things I could just about make this amount which is why i went along with the discussion. However since coming home and going through my budget I know I definitely can not afford to holiday with my bf this year

It can't be pleasant being in a position where you're thinking about cutting back on the household budget or selling your own stuff in order to keep up with the lifestyle of a boyfriend or partner. That way madness lies. Ditto borrowing holiday money from said boyfriend or partner. It's a one way ticket to resentment.

OP, I think you've got a chance to have a really open and frank conversation with your boyfriend about your circumstances; but tbh unless you both feel comfortable with some sort of compromise arrangement, it's probably going to be doomed.

This last paragraph is really where I'm at with this. I am just a bit scared to have that talk because it could really decide how the relationship will continue or not.

There's loads of points that posters have made I'd like to pick up on but I'm on my lunch break and using my phone so it's not easy to read the whole thread.

I am going to talk to him, and say that there is no way I can afford the holiday. I'm also going to suggest we have a proper chat about money. I certainly don't feel like this is a casual relationship and I get the strong impression he doesn't either. Of course I may be wrong but if we are to continue to see each other then we do need to be on the same page because this is important.

Thank you to the posters who have really understood what I'm saying here. I'm not a damsel waiting to be rescued at all. I stand on my own two feet and work hard to provide for my dc. It's been a slog juggling everything since my dh died but I've done it and I'm really proud of how I've coped and how far we have come.

I did think my bf had a good idea of my finances (why else would he pay for 75% of our dates) and would offer some kind of compromise on a holiday.

I do see where you are coming from though,I also don't think you are grabby at all.
I think ts the length of time you know him that's blurring the lines a bit.
If you both see a future together I don't see why he wouldn't or couldn't pay if you have a lot less than him,like in most marriages or partnerships one person may make less money or if a sahp may not have their own money, does it mean that partner never gets a holiday or a meal out or whatever it is they need.If you want to tell him you need to wait longer to get money together fair enough jo shame in that,you have teens and they soak money.
Will the people on here calling this lady grabby just stop to not nice

The YABU part for me is that you yourself got carried away, excited, all good etc and thought that you could just about afford it if you made some adjustments but only realised it couldn't be done later. I don't get why you would then get upset at your BF not offering to pay at the point when you presumably were agreeing to things - it implies that he should have a better understanding of your situation than you do which makes no sense.

There is no reason for your relationship to end because of yiu having less money than him because if that was the case there would be very few people in relationships

I really feel for you but I think it's probably better to have that conversation sooner rather than later.

You've done a very good job of keeping all the plates spinning and hopefully he's on the same page as you

That must have been disappointing to realise after getting excited for holiday. I can completely understand why some small part of you would hope that he’d offer to pay for the holiday. I’d probably have a little bit of the same hope myself!
While I completely empathise (single mum for 10 years on a low wage), you can’t just expect someone to pick up the tab because they’re a higher Warner than you.
The conversation about money is a good way to go if you feel this is a serious relationship, especially as you’ll be living together one day.
I hope you get to go away somehow, but you might have to admit it won’t happen if you don’t want to be in debt and he hasn’t offered to pay.

No of course he should pay! Why would you prefer he kid than that he lends you the money? Surely taking a freebie is worse than owing him money? Would you think it fair if he expected you to pay?

Shouldn’t

Have a frank conversation with him OP about your sensitivity around this - I get it.

I don't think it's fair him offering a loan - he shouldn't be encouraging you to get into debt, particularly not to him.

It’s not binary “he pay all the money or take a loan” situation. They could just… not go… if OP can’t afford it.

Going against the grain, if he can afford to I think it would be the kind thing to do for him to pay. Nothing wrong with someone doing that.

Higher earning no kids male perspective...

The first time I had a non-50/50 holiday with my ex-LTR was when we had been together for about 2-3 years. I started to ask her what she could afford excluding spending money, then I would offer her a choice of destinations based on what I was prepared to spend + what she could afford. She only had £350 available one year, I just told her to keep it for spending money and took her to a resort with a private beach on the West Coast of Barbados. Other times I didn't feel flush, I didn't put masses in on top and we had a week in Greece. They were all good holidays. Neither of us is especially materialistic.

We split for the right reasons (not wanting the same things out of life) and have both moved on, but are still friends who chat occasionally. She says that she feels bad about how she sometimes treated me and that she took me for granted. This is a problem for guys. Women do seem to become accustomed to or a bit entitled about this kind of stuff pretty fast and soon teach you that spoiling them rotten doesn't do a damn thing to prevent you having the same mundane arguments and tensions everyone else moans about on here. That becomes a disincentive to spoil future partners - we all have baggage.

What's actually in it for him to pay for her? 9 months in, I would say it would be really nice of the guy to just take her away, but to EXPECT him to is quite presumptuous if being some kind of financial provider isn't part of their established relationship dynamic.

However, the people lambasting her for feeling the way she does aren't really being fair. There are relationships with that dynamic. The question is what you each bring to the table and can therefore expect. Relationships are about the mutual fulfilment of needs. I doubt anyone thinks the aging millionaire actors and rock stars 9 months into a new relationship with a hot 20 or 30 something are going 50/50 on their holidays!?! That doesn't mean those relationships are somehow all fake. Rod Stewart & Penny Lancaster have been together for 23 years & claim to be deeply in love. I doubt they are financially 50/50 or ever were.

It is hard to say whether the OP is being unreasonable without knowing them both and understanding that dynamic... it would seem more plausible that he got together with her wanting a 50/50 relationship with no expectation to have kids or marry or become stepdaddy, just some mutual friendship, companionship & sexual satisfaction in the available private time. In that case, no, he isn't going to sweep her off her feet, and that isn't unfair of him... but that's all an assumption! If she's 10 years younger than him and a total MILF, what is he doing for her? Relationships after your first true love stage ARE somewhat transactional and about what you value about one another, whether that suits the romantic ideals we all have or not.

@AnotherRandomMale

it would seem more plausible that he got together with her wanting a 50/50 relationship with no expectation to have kids or marry or become stepdaddy, just some mutual friendship, companionship & sexual satisfaction in the available private time. In that case, no, he isn't going to sweep her off her feet, and that isn't unfair of him... but that's all an assumption! If she's 10 years younger than him and a total MILF, what is he doing for her? Relationships after your first true love stage ARE somewhat transactional and about what you value about one another, whether that suits the romantic ideals we all have or not.

Really? Sorry, but you sound like a total dick. Was your entire post supposed to be well meaning?

I really hope OP's bloke is a better guy than you appear to be.

[quote Bookworm20]@AnotherRandomMale

it would seem more plausible that he got together with her wanting a 50/50 relationship with no expectation to have kids or marry or become stepdaddy, just some mutual friendship, companionship & sexual satisfaction in the available private time. In that case, no, he isn't going to sweep her off her feet, and that isn't unfair of him... but that's all an assumption! If she's 10 years younger than him and a total MILF, what is he doing for her? Relationships after your first true love stage ARE somewhat transactional and about what you value about one another, whether that suits the romantic ideals we all have or not.

Really? Sorry, but you sound like a total dick. Was your entire post supposed to be well meaning?

I really hope OP's bloke is a better guy than you appear to be.[/quote]
Well meaning? Nope.
Realistic, yes.

Which bit in particular offends you the most?

@AnotherRandomMale - thank you for your perspective. I do think there is some truth in what you say and it has given me a lot to think on. I am 10 years younger than him as it happens! I must add that at no time have I expected him to be a financial provider. I don't expect him to be involved in my dc's lives or provide for them or me. Relationships are going to always be transactional to some degree even when we can't always quantify the exchange logically because things like love and feelings are involved.

@Hollywolly1 - haha - what I mean is that if this is how he wants a relationship to be then there will be so much that I can't do with him and realistically the relationship won't last. I know many couples have different incomes to each other and things work but it depends on expectations and what each person finds acceptable.