Should he have offered to pay for the holiday?

[TheSparkling]

I really need some thoughts on the situation I find myself in. I was widowed over 3 years ago and I've been in a new relationship for 9 months now. Apart from being married I have little experience of relationships which is why I'm asking for advise and opinions here.
My bf is a really lovely man and we seem to get on very well. We are very similar in lots of ways. Last year we had a weekend away together in a UK city which went well. Today bf suggested we book a week in Greece in Sept. All lovely, looked at some apartments and hotels and had a chat about what we would like etc. All good.
Except I've come home and gone through my budget and I know I can't afford it. I think i knew at the time but I got caught up a little in the excitement because I've not been abroad for 3 years like many people.

The thing is my bf knows money is really short for me. I have 3 dependent teenagers, I work and I'm a single parent. I have no other financial support, there is no pension or anything from my husband. My budget is tight and i struggle to pay for extras although I manage to save a small amount each month to cover this. During our chat about a holiday I expected my bf to offer to pay for the holiday. I don't know if I was unreasonable to do so? I didn't say that to him at the time but as I was driving home I became increasingly upset about it.

I'm not exactly sure why tbh. He said to me we could book it and you can pay me back even if that's after the holiday. But I don't want to be in debt to him (or to anybody).

Please tell me if I'm being unfair to him or should I not be expecting him to offer to pay more towards the holiday? (He is financially better off, no kids, mortgage paid, works full time.)

What? Of course not. Do the right thing and tell him you got carried Away in the excitement, but have now realised you can't afford it.

@Lalliella

Sorry OP but I don’t think you should expect him to pay for the holiday, and I don’t think you should be spending money on a holiday with him without your DC. You should be prioritising spending money on your children. They should come first.

Yes of course. Because the moment your first child leaves your vagina you lose any entitlement to anything for yourself. OP’s children are having a holiday, why on earth shouldn’t she have a week away without them? You don’t have to be a martyr to be a good mother. 🙄

So I don’t agree that op is just thinking he should pay, but given she can’t afford it I would have expected him to step up a bit, realising this, and offer.

But even she said she thought she could afford it. What an unusual post. Why would a boyfriend of nine months know her finances better than her and be taking her on holidays abroad. She’s an adult.

@Orchidsonthetable

So I don’t agree that op is just thinking he should pay, but given she can’t afford it I would have expected him to step up a bit, realising this, and offer.

But even she said she thought she could afford it. What an unusual post. Why would a boyfriend of nine months know her finances better than her and be taking her on holidays abroad. She’s an adult.

Presumably her boyfriend of nine months is aware of the fact that she's widowed, renting and has three children to support on less money than he (single and child-free) earns. Hard to know who's the more obtuse — him for thinking that any woman in that situation would have any spare cash at all or you for failing to take any of that into account.

Have you never, Orchidsonthetable, got carried a way in a moment of 'what if?' and realised later that there's no way you can afford to do it?

It's horrible, small-minded threads like this one that really make me question whether I want to be registered with MN.

Maybe your bf is also living pay check to pay check. Men are usually better at hiding their financial problems. Once you marry him you'll find out he's got bailiffs after him even though he drives a good car and goes on 3 holidays a year etc. Might explain why he doesn't have the spare £600 to pay for you. But I also think 9months is too early for him to be picking up the full holiday bill.

@Pluvia

You’re attacking her but you seem a bit hard of thinking. You literally don’t understand her point. If the OP thought she could afford it, how could her boyfriend know she couldn’t?

Presumably the OP also knows she is a widow and a single mum? The boyfriend is “obtuse” for not insisting to his girlfriend of 9 months that he knows her finances better than her?

The gold digging on this thread is pretty distasteful.

Why should he pay?

You just need to tell him you've looked at your finances and realised you can't afford it!

[quote bluedodecagon]@Pluvia

You’re attacking her but you seem a bit hard of thinking. You literally don’t understand her point. If the OP thought she could afford it, how could her boyfriend know she couldn’t?

Presumably the OP also knows she is a widow and a single mum? The boyfriend is “obtuse” for not insisting to his girlfriend of 9 months that he knows her finances better than her?

The gold digging on this thread is pretty distasteful.[/quote]
I don't think I'm the hard-of-thinking one here!

@arethereanyleftatall

Sorry op I echo the others - you really really shouldn't be 'expecting' a relatively new boyfriend to find a - what - £2000k? Holiday for you. 'I'm really sorry bf, it sounds lovely, but I can't afford that right now.'

£2000k?

Wow!! Can you take me in holiday???

I hate these pile ons. OP asked a reasonable question and has responded reasonably to some quite unpleasant comments .

I don't think I'm the hard-of-thinking one here!

I don’t either. Of course the other aspect of this is that if he went on holiday on his own he’d be paying a fairly substantial single supplement. That adds about 50% to the price of a holiday.

I have been in a similar situation to you but I’m sorry I still think you are being grabby and unfair to hope he would pay for a holiday. It’s still pretty early days for the relationship.
I was skint when I met DH and he was on a much higher wage. He often offered to buy dinner etc but I was determined not to feel I ‘owed’ him in any way or took him for granted. He was genuinely happy to treat me sometimes but I was strict about paying everything 50:50 for at least the first 2 years. Then gradually I let him treat me to dinner etc. we went on holiday 3 years in to Paris and there is no way i would expect him to pay for me! Obviously things are different now we are married and he pays for most things, but this shouldn’t be the case when you are just dating.
I understand that it can feel a bit miserable to be struggling financially and to see such a difference in salaries. I used to worry about it too. But for me, there were two key issues: firstly I didn’t want him to feel used by me financially or taken for granted in any way. Secondly, I was as independent as possible for my own self respect.

OP just a thought but is there any financial assistance you can get any widows benefit or UC top up. Please look into it CAB can help you with this.

I have been in the BF position in the past. I always earn more than my partners and have in the past subsidised one at least very heavily. It led to massive resentment on my part ( as he just couldn't be bothered to work once he had his feet under the table) and was a big contributing factor in the breakdown of the relationship.

I didn't mind at the beginning , as the higher earner paying more, it was when I was asked to pay for everything from his toiletries to dental care I started getting fed up.

In this case If i wanted my partner to come on holiday with me I would offer to pay, no strings, but given my past experiences I don't think i would ever do that again - I'd go with a girlfriend who could pay her way!

I will come back later and read everyone's replies... Thank you for all contributions. I'm in work this morning so will come back later.

I can totally understand you both getting a bit carried away with the planning and now feeling disappointed and it sounds like you have a lot on your plate .

While not something you can expect, I can also understand feeling a bit disappointed that he wouldn't offer to pay a bit more given that you have been open about your finances.

Flipping it around, I'd pay for a boyfriend who I'd been with for 9 months, to go away on holiday if I wanted his company and he couldn't afford it and I could. As long as he showed generosity in other ways appropriate to his situation and didn't expect me to pay, it wouldn't be an issue. Otherwise I could go on holiday with a friend and miss out on a holiday with a boyfriend and all that comes with that.

I think it's matching levels of generosity (appropriate to income levels) in a relationship rather than the actual levels of income that are more important. Generosity doesn't have to be financial either imo.

I'd just let him know you got a bit carried away with the excitement of it and can't afford it and leave it at that for now. It sounds like he is a generally a generous person (paying for 3/4 dates) and maybe just didn't realise what a stretch this was for you. You could suggest going next year which would give you more time to save.

@Pluvia

You are

But it makes sense. Some women would do anything rather than stand on their own two feet. I’d be embarrassed to go begging for money from a man I barely know but that’s just me…

I just can't see how the relationship is going to work if he wants things 50:50 on his level
Is that what he wants? It's only been 9 months, so presumably he does not know exactly how much disposable income you have, just a rough idea or saying you are not well off? Does he know this is too much? Is it possible that he thinks 600 pounds is well within your budget? When you have gone out to restaurants etc., have you made it clear to him how much you want to spend on going out? Said you can't do things as it's too expensive?

I guess you are in your 40s or 50s? I am 52 and also not massively well off, but also don't want to get married again; my bf and I live apart. So there's no reason for us to pool our incomes. It's different to when you are say, in your 20s and might have plans to get married, live together, have children. I'm pretty sure my bf would be happy to pay for me, but I don't want to go out of my budget. You say that you don't want to be in debt to your bf. I don't want to be indebted to my bf. To me that feels like the same thing, and I don't understand why you see one as bad and the other as fine.

I was faced with the same scenario when I first met my DP. His wealth vastly outweighs mine. The types of holidays he was used to were not even in consideration for me.
A Frank discussion was had where i told him that I didn't want to stop him from going on holidays but I could not afford it and happy for him to go without me or unfortunately he would have to contribute far more to the holiday than I could if he wanted me to go. I was embarrassed to admit it at first but much better to get it out in the open.

[quote bluedodecagon]@Pluvia

You are

But it makes sense. Some women would do anything rather than stand on their own two feet. I’d be embarrassed to go begging for money from a man I barely know but that’s just me…[/quote]
She isn’t begging! She hasn’t actually asked him to pay for it!

And she doesn’t ‘barely know him’ they have been together for almost a year.

And that’s a downright insult saying she isn’t standing on her own 2 feet, you should be ashamed. Op has lost her husband 3 years ago and been raising her 3 dc on her own since then. That must’ve taken alot of strength. And she just would like a break with her new bf but can’t afford it and asked a perfectly reasonable question because she felt a little down and upset about it.

Perhaps instead of jumping to such an extreme conclusion, how about offering some actual advice.

I’ll throw a spanner in the works here and say that when you have one half of a couple who is more flush they have to make a choice. They either go on holidays the less flush person can afford to go halfers on or they accept that they are going to have to pay more than 50% of the cost if they want a more exotic holiday.

If your BF is happy to only go on short weekend breaks in the UK & pay 50% cool. If he wants the romantic Greek holiday, he pays more (but not 100%)

@Bookworm20

I wasn’t talking about the OP, I was talking about @Pluvia. She insisted that not only should the OP ask for money, that the boyfriend was wrong for not knowing that the OP couldn’t afford it, despite the OP not knowing she couldn’t afford itShe also stated that being a single mum means the boyfriend should pay regardless, no matter what the financial status is.

That’s grabby and disgusting.

And I’ve already pointed out that I don’t think it’s wrong for a wealthier partner to pay depending on the financial inequality. But it can’t just be “oh, I’m a mum or I’m a widow, he should pay.” If he wants to live a lifestyle and she can’t afford to participate then it makes sense to pay in order for him to have her in his life.

But it doesn’t make him cheap or a bastard after 9 months to assume a grown adult with three children understands her own finances. You can’t play the independent woman and the damsel in distress.

@bledodecagon - oh please. Nothing to do with firmly standing in your two feet and being an independent woman.
OP please don’t get bullied and start thinking you are doing anything wrong. Why should you feel embarrassed about your financial position? Why should you feel less than? You work hard and you support your children, be proud of it. Others (especially men) are often in much better financial position because they were able to focus on their careers only. So is life. Financial inequality doesn’t have to be the end of the relationship as long as partners are on the same page re: expectations. But what definitely brings a relationship to an end is a feeling that we are not valued and respected. It is expressed in different forms by different people.

I felt really sad reading this from the OP:

At the time I knew I could afford to set aside a little bit of money to do something and the £600 holiday didn't seem to far outside that. So I did think if I cut this and sell a few things I could just about make this amount which is why i went along with the discussion. However since coming home and going through my budget I know I definitely can not afford to holiday with my bf this year

It can't be pleasant being in a position where you're thinking about cutting back on the household budget or selling your own stuff in order to keep up with the lifestyle of a boyfriend or partner. That way madness lies. Ditto borrowing holiday money from said boyfriend or partner. It's a one way ticket to resentment.

OP, I think you've got a chance to have a really open and frank conversation with your boyfriend about your circumstances; but tbh unless you both feel comfortable with some sort of compromise arrangement, it's probably going to be doomed.

I still don’t get it. I don’t hesitate to pay for someone to do something more expensive, if I knew they can’t afford it (a particular restaurant when I visit my brother for example) , so if I’m with a man who has no children or dependents as who earns considerably more (often) due to being a bloke, why wouldn’t he just pay and how can that be seen as grabby?