Should he have offered to pay for the holiday?

[TheSparkling]

I really need some thoughts on the situation I find myself in. I was widowed over 3 years ago and I've been in a new relationship for 9 months now. Apart from being married I have little experience of relationships which is why I'm asking for advise and opinions here.
My bf is a really lovely man and we seem to get on very well. We are very similar in lots of ways. Last year we had a weekend away together in a UK city which went well. Today bf suggested we book a week in Greece in Sept. All lovely, looked at some apartments and hotels and had a chat about what we would like etc. All good.
Except I've come home and gone through my budget and I know I can't afford it. I think i knew at the time but I got caught up a little in the excitement because I've not been abroad for 3 years like many people.

The thing is my bf knows money is really short for me. I have 3 dependent teenagers, I work and I'm a single parent. I have no other financial support, there is no pension or anything from my husband. My budget is tight and i struggle to pay for extras although I manage to save a small amount each month to cover this. During our chat about a holiday I expected my bf to offer to pay for the holiday. I don't know if I was unreasonable to do so? I didn't say that to him at the time but as I was driving home I became increasingly upset about it.

I'm not exactly sure why tbh. He said to me we could book it and you can pay me back even if that's after the holiday. But I don't want to be in debt to him (or to anybody).

Please tell me if I'm being unfair to him or should I not be expecting him to offer to pay more towards the holiday? (He is financially better off, no kids, mortgage paid, works full time.)

@bluedodecagon I think you're being a tad unfair here. It was the DP who suggested the holiday and no one has mentioned marriage .

You could just as rightly say that he has unrealistic expectations that a woman 10 years younger has as much disposable income as he does to be used on holidays, when she has a family to support.

Sassbott @SucculentChalice 😂😂😂😂. There is no differing levels of old European manner in Switzerland (and yes I have spent time there also). If you are happy with a man paying for your time in exchange for a flat/ car/ dinner. Then that’s all you and that’s your choice. You know exactly what you are doing. In exchange for priority on your time/ company men/ or a man have paid in other ways. That’s not right or wrong, it’s how society has worked since the beginning of time (or certainly since the notion of money being exchanged for goods was introduced).

I don't know whats going on in your and some other's imaginations here. But do you seriously have no friends, who lend you their holiday apartment and car for a week or two?

My time is way more expensive and valuable than the equivalent cost of a holiday apartment. Try per hour and you might get somewhere near it in my profession. That would be the legal profession. Even suggesting that such a transaction as is going on in your head would be taking place would be defamatory if not made anonymously.

@SucculentChalice It only counts as paying for your time if you don’t intrinsically enjoy his company. If you do, and he yours, then that’s a relationship

No I have no friends. Zero. I also have no insight of how some wealthy people can operate and how they use their money. I also have no insight on how others receive it.

I bow in gracious admiration at your vastly superior knowledge and quake in my boots at how defamatory my thoughts are.

🙄

I completely understand getting caught up in the moment. This must be disappointing for you and for that I am sorry.

@Sassbott

No I have no friends. Zero. I also have no insight of how some wealthy people can operate and how they use their money. I also have no insight on how others receive it.

I bow in gracious admiration at your vastly superior knowledge and quake in my boots at how defamatory my thoughts are.

🙄

Perhaps you should give some thought that going around accusing people of being prostitutes is going to come across as a bit deranged?

Goodness knows what would happen if you actually met a prostitute. I have, and they are people too, not imaginary targets to insult to make you feel all self righteous.

Anyway, OP, times are hard and this man sounds crass at best for not realising you might struggle to afford a holiday given that he knows your personal responsibilities.

[quote rookiemere]@bluedodecagon I think you're being a tad unfair here. It was the DP who suggested the holiday and no one has mentioned marriage .

You could just as rightly say that he has unrealistic expectations that a woman 10 years younger has as much disposable income as he does to be used on holidays, when she has a family to support.[/quote]
I don’t think I’m being unfair but I think OP is being unclear.

Also the holiday is £600. Plenty of 20 year olds can afford that. I don’t think age is relevant here. It’s not like it’s a £30k cruise or a private jet. It’s basically the cost of a week long Airbnb in Spain. It’s a long weekend anywhere in England other than a tent/caravan.

Most single mums of teenagers work full time so I don’t really think you can claim that to expect another adult to have £600 is insensitive. It’s fine the OP doesn’t. It’s fine if she just doesn’t want to pay! But I wouldn’t assume that a 30+ year old woman couldn’t afford to pay that, even with children.

@Sassbotti think you’re being unfairly persecuted. I think both yours and @AnotherRandomMale were spot on.

Plenty of women want and can have traditional relationships where the man pays. If both parties are happy, it’s perfectly fine.

Maybe the OP’s bf has turned out to be a bit of a splenda daddy? Implicitly promising a particular kind of relationship but instead has turned out be quite cheap. He’s already trying to split the bill. I think this one’s a dud.

When I had been dating my now husband for about 3 1/2 months he wanted a weekend away to Wales. I had 3 dependent children, 2 teens and youngest 7. I told him I would love to but could just not afford it as I had to put children first. He took me for my birthday and paid my eldest to look after youngest for weekend too. He was very generous. He came over twice mid-week and had dinner and stayed over at my house. He often insisted on picking up bits of shopping for dinner for us all and paying. I married him and he has carried on being kind and generous too me and my DC. Be honest, tell him you'd really love to go, but can't as you have children to pay for.

Some men would pay and realistically, unless you're a real high-flyer and he isn't you are going to have big disparities in residual income when you are funding 4 people and he is only funding himself.

If he is paying for something because your outgoings will not allow you to, he is indirectly paying for your kids. You need to find a guy who is comfortable with this otherwise the relationship is likely to fail. They do exist, but a lot of men will squirm at the prospect of "paying for another man's child", even indirectly.

Tell your DP that you've checked your finances and you really can't afford it. His response will be very informative.

No he should not of offered to pay for the holiday. If you can’t afford it be honest with him.

@ToiletPoster

I agree. However in ops case he knew full well she had dc.

So men who squirm at paying directly or indirectly for a child who isn’t theirs should not enter into a relationship with a woman who has children full stop.

From what op has posted, her bf does understand this as he has paid for most of their dates.

If he is paying for something because your outgoings will not allow you to, he is indirectly paying for your kids

That’s some kind of convoluted logic! Of course he’s not, he’s paying for something she wouldn’t be doing if she wasn’t with him.

@Blossomtoes
Anything done as a couple would presumably not be done if she wasn't with him.
Half of the holidays I've had whilst in relationships I wouldn't have gone on alone or with friends, and if I did the activities would be different.
Being a single parent is a game-changer, financially. Financial disparities will be created where there wouldn't be one and existing disparities will be heightened. It doesn't work unless the single-parent has a very high income or the other party is willing to be generous to bridge that gap (which is significantly driven by the presence of children).

[quote ToiletPoster]@Blossomtoes
Anything done as a couple would presumably not be done if she wasn't with him.
Half of the holidays I've had whilst in relationships I wouldn't have gone on alone or with friends, and if I did the activities would be different.
Being a single parent is a game-changer, financially. Financial disparities will be created where there wouldn't be one and existing disparities will be heightened. It doesn't work unless the single-parent has a very high income or the other party is willing to be generous to bridge that gap (which is significantly driven by the presence of children).[/quote]
That’s a huge, huge generalisation. And nothing you’ve said even slightly translates into indirect payment for the single parents’ kids. Thank you for the lecture about the financial implications of being a single parent, by the way - I was obviously asleep for all the years I was one.

@Bookworm20
I think the issue is that men paying for dates is a societal expectation. From a man's perspective, there is no real downside to offering (other than the financial hit). Noone will judge you for offering to pay, but some women will judge you for not offering/suggesting a 50/50 split.

Men do think economically about these things, though they may word it differently. I've had multiple male friends essentially admit that whether they split or paid was based on how attracted they were to the person they were dating.

Moving into things like shared living arrangements or holidays is when I feel those core financial values come into play (i.e. how they define "fairness").

@Blossomtoes

Respectfully, I don't think your experience of being a single parent alone holds any more weight in regards to the perceptions of childless partners of single parents than my experience of being the child of single parent witnessing these financial negotiations.

@SucculentChalice I have not stated that anyone is a prostitute, that’s you typing words on a screen that you have chosen to state. Not me.

My posts throughout this thread have been perfectly reasoned and I have repeatedly stated that there are no rights or wrongs when it comes to relationships and money.

I have also commented on a PP post and agreed that there are some people who have a degree of transaction in their relationships. I’ve observed it first hand. Again zero judgement and if it makes them happy so be it.

If that comes across as deranged to you? So be it. I’m not losing any sleep over any statements you’ve made. And I stand by all my comments on this thread.

[quote ToiletPoster]@Blossomtoes

Respectfully, I don't think your experience of being a single parent alone holds any more weight in regards to the perceptions of childless partners of single parents than my experience of being the child of single parent witnessing these financial negotiations.[/quote]
Don’t you? You were responsible for organising your single parent’s finances, were you?

Old European manners, to pay for a woman you’re datings home and car?

I’ve also lived in that country and a bordering one and it’s certainly not the case that men feel they need to pay to house women And provide cars to women they casually date. Your lifestyle choices are yours, but it is not the way in Switzerland nor is is seen as good manners. Not in wider society.

@Orchidsonthetable

Old European manners, to pay for a woman you’re datings home and car?

I’ve also lived in that country and a bordering one and it’s certainly not the case that men feel they need to pay to house women And provide cars to women they casually date. Your lifestyle choices are yours, but it is not the way in Switzerland nor is is seen as good manners. Not in wider society.

No. You've got that completely wrong. You do realise that I described a couple of weeks in a holiday home and the use of a car which is kept at that holiday home. Not some imaginary relationship where a man keeps a woman years on end in some fantasy house and pays for her.

I quite agree with the rest of your post. However, my experience of Swiss men is that they are a little bit more willing to put their hands in their pockets to offer to pay than some British men are, who have mentally calculated your share based on how much you ate down to the last penny. I'm generalising of course.

I am going to say this again because clearly stating it simply and clearly isn't sinking in. I do not have a "lifestyle" where men provide me with homes and cars. I had a holiday in a holiday home loaned to me for a brief duration.

As I said in a previous post, nest of vipers.

You do realise that I described a couple of weeks in a holiday home and the use of a car which is kept at that holiday home

No I didn’t realise that, becayse I don’t know you and because you specially stated you’d not had a holiday paid for. See below.

I've not had a holiday paid for, I had an entire apartment and car to drive provided by a man who I wasn't even sleeping with but was casually dating

For me, the words I’ve not had a holiday paid for, indicates this wasn’t a two week holiday.

I don’t think it should be an expectation, if he was to offer then it’s a lovely thing to do but I wouldn’t want him to feel that he was responsible for financing me and I don’t think I’d feel comfortable knowing he was financing the whole holiday.
I don’t know if my opinion is due to the fact I am not materialistic in the slightest, so maybe that changes my view somewhat.
Have an honest conversation, tell him you are not able to afford the holiday at the moment and maybe suggest a short break elsewhere.

You know what, I think that if your bf loves you and understands your financial circumstances and the fact that he is in a far better position than you, then a chivalrous offer towards the holiday, would have been what a good, kind, decent, understanding bf/partner should have done imo. I know your relationship is fairly new, but if it was me in his position, I would definitely have offered to pay for you, or paid a bit extra. Guess I am old fashioned.
It's not about expecting people to pay for you, but having an expectation of consideration and courtesy and if they are wanting to take you out or take you away ( and you haven't got the funds to do it at that time) then they should either offer to help you financially, or not ask you on holiday.
Please be honest with him about your limitations money wise.
I know I am different with my opinion here btw. It's just that I have been in this position too and it was tough.

@DesertStorms

I don’t get why you expect him to pay for you at all, regardless of how long you e been together. You aren’t married , you aren’t even living together.

The OP has said that the holiday isn't happening.