Have I over-reacted? Struggling to forgive my DD

[thepeopleversuswork]

Found out yesterday my DD (11) has downloaded some computer games which I have been paying for without authorisation (the account was foolishly linked to my bank account. I know I have been really stupid on this front so please don't give me a hard time). I've cancelled the account, removed the games she's ordered and confiscated the laptop and her other devices for two weeks. We've had a long talk and I have let her know she has destroyed my trust and she will have to work hard to earn it back and repay the money (about £40).

She was hugely apologetic and has said she will do what it takes to make it up to me etc. We left things on friendly and loving terms last night after a good discussion: I said I loved her and would always forgive her but there needed to be an appropriate punishment and I needed her to demonstrate to me that I can trust her before I will let her download any new games. (Clearly she's not getting access to anything linked to my bank account again).

I'm still feeling really upset and angry this morning that she was able to find it in herself to do this and am struggling to move past it. I know its important to set boundaries and appropriate punishments but forgive and move on but this morning she started trying to bargain to get the game back (if I do this can I get it back in this timeframe etc). I flared up and said I'm sick of hearing about computer games and I never want her to talk to me about them again (I am sick of hearing about them tbh: I find them utterly tedious and I resent the amount of time and energy that she spends talking and thinking about them). She's a good kid, doing well at school and has other interests etc. TBH I loathe computer games, I find them to be a total waste of time and I resent the amount of time that her generation spends on them. If I could, I'd completely ban them but that's another story.

I just want some advice about how to deal with this. I've never in the past found it hard to forgive her, even if she's been really naughty. I've always thought she's a monkey but would not do anything devious like this and the whole thing has frightened and distressed me and I'm still holding quite a bit of anger towards her.

I know I need to hold the line on the punishment but move past the anger but I'm finding it hard and its scared me a bit. Any advice here?

I think some posters are being a bit harsh, but I agree with their sentiments mostly. Computer games are part of our culture, as tv was /is in your childhood. Personally I agree that gaming can take up a huge amount of time - I did it myself for a while as an adult and was always amazed by how many hours had passed. But does life need to be constantly filled with meaningful worthy activities? I've spent a great deal of time reading thrillers and crime novels, loads of time on Netflix etc. That doesn't mean I don't work hard at my job and do other more constructive things. Relaxation and fun are part of life too. You don't need to share her interests but don't despise them. Her generation is different from yours and as she gets older, there will undoubtedly be other interests and preoccupations she has that don't float your boat either.

IME teen girls (I have 2) tend to lose interest in gaming after a while but get more into social media. There's a downside but the upside is they were able to not only maintain a social life during lockdown, but able to make new friends online (all checked out by us, by the way).

At 11 they are at or on the verge of puberty and everything changes then. The control you have over a younger child goes and you have to negotiate your way through the teen years - set different boundaries and let some things go. If you don't, you can lose them or get into ridiculous battles. And they are more likely to go behind your back, so you dont know what they're up to. It's better to keep a good respectful relationship going. (I've made mistakes, so I know!)

Also a bit at your update where you mention being 'triggered' by it due being a single parent during lockdown. I think if everyone stopped being triggered or offended by day to day events, things would be a lot more straighforward...

100% agree with this.

’My parents were absolutely phobic about TV and would strictly limit what we watched. My mum would get visibly distressed when we watched it and would arbitrarily turn it off and boot us out of the room. My parents were real intellectual snobs and I think they thought TV would rot the brain etc. All very irrational and I guess I haven't done as good a job as I thought I had in safeguarding myself against this.’

You’ve recognised the link and that’s half the battle. If you haven’t already read it, this book is really helpful.

www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Wish-Your-Parents-Children-ebook/dp/B07GRBB9WQ/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1646393998&sr=8-1

I am sorry, I can understand you being very annoyed, but I think when you talk of not being able to forgive your daughter you are going too far and you should take a breath.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

Thank you, that's exactly it. You've put into words exactly how I feel.

I do understand that a child of 11 won't necessarily recognise the seriousness of these actions and I do think some tolerance is necessary but I also think they need to be made to understand that its not right. In this scenario no real harm was done but if aged 15 she'd taken £400 out of my account, that would be a much more serious proposition. It's getting her used to the idea that she can't take things from me without there being consequences. I don't think that's an over-reaction.

Which is why I'm standing by the need for there to be some punishment. If things just continue as they were there's no real disincentive for her not to do it again.

But clearly my reaction was over the top, I accept that.

Why does a hobby need to be productive? This is absolutely you projecting your own parents’ snobbery onto your child and placing work in higher esteem than leisure, which is an entirely subjective moral construct.

My dad was always moaning about the TV I watched, said it rots the brain, and pushed me to have more “worthy” hobbies. I used to read a lot as a child, but I loved TV and I still do. And it became my career, by the way.

There’s nothing wrong with unproductive leisure activities - in fact the very definition of leisure might be that it’s unproductive. Reading, or playing chess, or tennis, or whatever you imagine is more worthy, is no more productive than playing computer games.

@tinierclanger

It’s worth examining your thought process around this as well. Life doesn’t always have to be productive. It is entirely legitimate to spend some time having non-productive fun…!

This is a whole other thread but this is something I really struggle with. I have to be massively productive all the time just to get my life to function because I'm a working lone parent. There's never any room for slack in the system and almost no downtime, or me time, ever. So I slightly resent it when other people get to lie around being unproductive because I don't have that luxury. Again, that's my problem and not hers but it is what it is.

Re: your hatred of video games - video game production is one of the biggest industries in the world these days - she could have an incredibly well paid job if she wanted to go into the world of making video games... developer, writer, graphics, story, business, buying and selling...

Why not think about it like a potential career interest you could be nurturing? If it's a natural interest, you could capitalise on it rather than trying to ban it...

This is completely irrational on your behalf OP and tbh I’m concerned for your daughter.

Haven't rtft just the OP's updates, but has she made these transactions knowingly? As DS mistakenly spent £160 on the xbox once, when he showed me what/hiw he done it, it really wasnt obvious at all that once you click the button, this amount will be taken from your account iyswim?

Also I say that as someone who's parents banned a very similar 'mindless/mind-numbing activity' and I actually went on to work in it! So my early interest turned into a productive career.

I have to be massively productive all the time just to get my life to function because I'm a working lone parent. There's never any room for slack in the system and almost no downtime, or me time, ever.

@thepeopleversuswork

I haven't read all the posts but have read yours. I think I agree with the majority about your over-reaction.

However, I wanted to say I think you've taken the feedback really well & posted very thoughtfully. It's clear that you are trying to figure out for yourself what's going on.

The quote above resonated with me. I'm also a busy single parent. I work too hard. I spend many hours ferrying kids to activities. I literally don't know how to relax & also have illogical feelings about doing nothing & seeing others do nothing! I hear you.

💐

@Sharkie23

Haven't rtft just the OP's updates, but has she made these transactions knowingly? As DS mistakenly spent £160 on the xbox once, when he showed me what/hiw he done it, it really wasnt obvious at all that once you click the button, this amount will be taken from your account iyswim?

Yes, she admitted to me yesterday that they were all small purchases and she didn't think I'd notice.

I find them utterly tedious and I resent the amount of time and energy that she spends talking and thinking about them

Think back to your own time as a teenager, for something that was everything to you and for which your parents had absolutely no time.

Then consider what a big business computer games are, how many people are employed in highly remunerated roles, for the graphic design, the speed and control which is delivered by the software and hardware, designed, developed and tested by highly skilled people.

This says nothing about the fact that DD has broken your trust and needs to earn it back. It does try to explain that it's in the nature of teenagers to move away from parental guidance towards their own interests.

Personally, I hate the word punishment used by parents of young children. Schools don't talk about punishing children but about behaviour management. I think what you mean in your post is that you want to discourage her from that kind of behaviour again. You will do that by keeping open channels of communication between the two of you and not by asking random people on the internet (And MN posters are mostly lovely) for ideas about punishing an eleven year old child.

You are taking this way too personally and your own issues are getting muddled into it.

She sounds like a good kid.

You need to set the boundary and of course she needs to understand the seriousness.

But she's 11. What do you need to "forgive" - it sounds like you think she has done this to hurt you?

I think it does cause you lots of difficult feelings, you hate gaming, you worry you are not a good parent, given she has done this, but this is YOUR harsh judgment on YOURSELF.

None of us here think you're a terrible parent for letting her play games or for having a daughter who has done this. It's a normal part of growing up.

I think you really need to forgive yourself and allow yourself to be an ordinarily good parent with an ordinarily good daughter.

Instead of punishing yourself for things not being 100% squeaky clean and perfect all of the time.

Good luck!

Poor kid, what an overreaction. Perfectly normal pre teen behaviour. She’s sorry, you’ve disciplined her.
It’s entirely your problem that you can’t let it go or forgive her. Get a bloody grip.

@EarringsandLipstick

Thank you. It's not easy to hear some of this but I totally accept that I've been irrational and unkind and have some work to do on myself.

I don't know how to relax either and actually relaxing or being unproductive makes me feel very stressed out, jittery and uncomfortable. The idea of doing nothing brings me out in hives tbh. I have the constant feeling that if I take my eye off the ball ever for a few minutes I will miss something/fail someone.

In part, as well, I don't think all of that is totally unhealthy. I want her to grow up understanding that life is tough and you can only ever rely on yourself. It's particularly important to me that she grows up understanding the need for financial independence and never to rely on a man for money. So she will need to learn to work hard, be resilient and self-reliant.

I guess I need for this to be balanced with a sense of acceptance and the space for her to be herself.

You're getting a bit of a hammering OP, but I agree with you. Having known a few pre-teens, I don't think it's normal behaviour that you should excuse.

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@Rosebuud

Thanks, but I respectfully disagree on the punishment. I do think its important for there to be boundaries and for children to understand that there will be a consequence of bad behaviour.

But I take your broader point.

@godmum56

It's tough isn't it. I don't explicitly shit on the discussion of video games. I tolerate it and feign interest (up to a point). But sometimes I have to bring the conversation around to other topics and there just aren't enough hours in the day to talk about this stuff as much as she would like. By the same token other friends have suggested that I get involved and play with her. Again, I just don't have time to do this and frankly its fairly low on my list of priorities after work, general parenting and life admin. I don't find it particularly easy or interesting. But maybe I do have to work to see the positives more.[/quote]
I just went and had a shower. i do my best thinking in the shower...Do you think that your parents reaction to TV would have been fear based? Fear of the unknown, fear of losing control of their lives (and yours) because of this new thing? It certainly fits better with your mother's reaction than intellectual snobbery....and do you think that that fear is what they have embedded into you? I am confused by your comment that you don't have time to play with your daughter....would you say the same if she wanted to share an activity that you approved of?

Your 11 year old made a bad decision, she’s apologised, agreed to her punishment (having her laptop confiscated etc) and has agreed to repay the money she now owes you. There’s literally nothing else she can do now to appease you and you are still so angry with her about it you’ve scared yourself. Think about why that is. You even ask in your OP that people don’t have a go at you for your poor decision- having your bank account linked so your child could spend £40 of your money on a game. Do you think that’s fair, considering you are still so angry at your child?

I found out today that my DS has been using my card that is linked to his phone for bus fare, train to school and pre agreed activities/food when he is out and about, to buy crap from the corner shop several times a week after school. He knows this isn't allowed, he's been told before. So I am angry, and he was very sorry. I asked him if he would put his hand in my purse and steal a pound coin every day and he was horrified. I explained it's the same. I added up what he spent in the last month and it's only £11 but that's £11 he stole. He is paying it back (not going further back as it was my fault for not noticing) and he's adding his own bank card to his phone so he can waste his own money on crap if he chooses (let's see how quickly he realises how it adds up when it's his pocket money going down!)
They do need to know that spending money electronically without permission is stealing. That's the bottom line. However, it doesn't make him, ot your DD, bad children. They need a consequence, they need to reflect and learn.

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@tinierclanger

It’s worth examining your thought process around this as well. Life doesn’t always have to be productive. It is entirely legitimate to spend some time having non-productive fun…!

This is a whole other thread but this is something I really struggle with. I have to be massively productive all the time just to get my life to function because I'm a working lone parent. There's never any room for slack in the system and almost no downtime, or me time, ever. So I slightly resent it when other people get to lie around being unproductive because I don't have that luxury. Again, that's my problem and not hers but it is what it is.[/quote]
You sound like my in-laws. They need to be productive ALL the time. Even holidays aren't a time a relax. They have to cram in as many activities in to each day as they can. They have a terrible fear of being lazy. The only time I see them sit down is to eat. It's exhausting. I've tried to explain to them that rest is important but they don't get it. Children need down time and playing video games is a fun way to relax. OP - try not to make your daughter feel bad for enjoying a hobby that all kids enjoy. She's a child, not a machine. She shouldn't always be productive. She needs rest and fun.

None of my children ever did anything like this and I would be very upset if they did. I would say no gaming for 1 month or until £40 was repaid. She would have to repay put of pocket money. I only allow 1 hour per day gaming as children become addicted to it and will do things they would not normally do to access it as you have found out with your dd. Sounds like she is addicted if she only just lost it and already plotting how to get it back. You are being too easy on her.

And YOU need downtime too!