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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

H and prostitutes - update

167 replies

princesjet2 · 28/02/2022 10:31

Update on 'D and Prostitutes' post

Hi Everyone

I wanted to give everyone an update, I've name changed as my H knew I had posted here. I posted in November about my H and I have pasted the original post below this new one. Thank you to everyone who responded, it's really helped me. Since my last post, more has happened. I ended up checking H phone again and found a message to one of his friends a year ago saying that he had met this amazing girl on a night out (we were going through a rough patch and he had relocated to another country and I was still in the UK wrapping things up before also moving). He said in the message he didnt do anything at all with her, his friend asks if he has been messaging her and he replied saying 'trying not to because before I've just been wasted and meant nothing at all. This is different so I've got to be pretty careful.'

When I confronted him about what 'before I've just been wasted and it meant nothing' meant, he said he was meaning just talking to girls. This friend then messaged my husband encouraging him to message her and keep it a secret from me. The real kick in the teeth is that when I finally moved out to where my husband is, this friend had to move out of his apartment and lived with us for six weeks. He also said he had been considering breaking up with me during this period for something that I did months before (he is a pilot and had an engine failure, I wasnt supportive of him at the time and i can readily admit that, he felt he couldnt rely on me, I think I just didnt appreciate how scary it must have been). I'm annoyed by this because if he was considering breaking up with me, why let me give up my job in our home country and move to where he is where I had no job and no friends.

I then found an old phone memory card of his from 2-3 years ago, in the apps section both bumble and tinder were named as being files on his phone. I checked the last thing he had googled, and it was escorts in our hometown. Bear in mind this is from years ago. He just flat out denied these things when I brought them up and laughed at how ridiculous the accusation was, he sounded completely relaxed and genuinely baffled. He really is a very convincing individual.

He is currently out of the country on work and will be for another two weeks. I'm planning my next move with my parents help.

To update everyone on the question I was asked a few times as to whether he had sent the message asking about the wedding ring to everyone he was out with, yes he did send it to the friend he was put with as he showed me. He said he was just so drunk the night before he couldnt remember how he got home and the morning after was filled with hangover anxiety that he had done something.

ORIGINAL POST BELOW

I want to start this by saying it is probably going to be a long thread, so thank you to those who bear with me and read the whole thing.

My H has always had a strange relationship with sex. We have been together 9 years (no kids) and our sex life has never been what I hoped it would be. The sex is great when we actually do it, however H very rarely initiates and when I initiate, he often says he is too tired. We have gone months at a time without having sex. Over the years I have tried initating myself, calmly explaining to H how important sex is in a marriage and how it makes me insecure and crying and saying that this issue could end our marriage. He always agrees and promises to make more of an effort but after a week or so it goes back to normal.
H is honestly the best husband you could ask for. He has supported me financially and emotionally for 8 years, often to his own detriment, and has continually supported me with my own mental health issues. I have not been an easy person to be with at times. He puts me first in every single way, never gets angry, and truly loves me. I have no doubt of this. He has always been the 'perfect' one, whether it's as a husband, friend or family member. He is a genuinely nice man. However, he had a very fractured childhood and is his own harshest critic, he cannot tolerate himself being anything less than perfect. A few years ago we had just stopped doing long distance and I saw a message on his phone to a friend of his (sent during our time apart) that said he had brought two women back to his flat after a night out. I hit the roof and his explanation was that he had been trying to fit in with a 'laddish' group of friends he had made and had sent the message drunkenly, with no truth to it. I believed him as I do see that he constantly strives to fit in.
Fast forward to last night. We had friends round for drinks and something one of them said (nothing to do with women) raised alarm bells. It strongly implied he had lied about something in order to impress them. This has happened once before and I let it go, however something just didn't sit right and (I'm ashamed to admit) I looked at his phone when he was sleeping. I found numerous whatsapp messages to prostitute hotlines (we live in a country where this is sadly accessable) basically asking for sexual services. In some of the messages he has bartered the price, stated that he would like a discount as he 'had this one before' and has asked for photos of the different women to be sent to him. There are also messages saying he is 'ten minutes away' and asking for their location etc. He lost his wedding ring on a night out about six weeks ago and I saw one message saying that he thinks he left his grandfathers ring at the location the night before and could they please check. I was absolutely heartbroken and confronted him. He completely broke down and eventually explained everything. He found this mortifying as it was a crack in his 'perfect' facade. He said that he sends these messages to different companies when he is very drunk as he is seeking a thrill. When I asked him about why he would need directions etc and why he had asked about his wedding ring, for the former he said that they only send pictures if you confirm you are on your way and for the latter he said that he had panicked the next morning and messaged everyone, including the friends he had been out with, without thinking. He said that he has always had an issue with sex and he is very much 'in his own head', I know this is true and knowing him for 9 years, I can genuinely believe that this is a fantasy he is acting out instead of something he would act on. He was absolutely adamant that he has never actually slept with or met any of these women and never would.

I feel oddly calm, and part of me was almost relieved that this man I had felt for years was too good for me, also had flaws. I am a naturally very suspicious person but I do genuinely believe that he hasnt acted on these fantasies. What I can't get my head around is that our lack of sex over the years has really dented my confidence and caused (the only) major issue in our marriage. I also have spent years thinking he is perfect and too good for me and been completely open with him about my own flaws, and I feel like this has been a lie.

Am I crazy for believing him? If I choose to believe that this is all a fantasy, would anyone else view this as being a flaw that they are willing to overlook (provided it never happens again,) and deem it not that big a deal? I don't know how to feel except that I overreacted, as he is saying that as he never did and never would act on it, it's just a stupid thing he does when very drunk. He also says that he is so ashamed of himself that no matter how angry I am at him, he will always hate himself more. I told him that I forgave him and that we can move on, however he said it didnt matter if I forgave him, he could never forgive himself and I do believe this (ties into him being his own harshest critic).

I'm sorry for this long post, but I feel very confused and I really need some perspective on this.

OP posts:
princesjet2 · 10/04/2022 00:57

@Herja thank you so much for your post, it really resonated with me. How did you eventually accept that you weren't the one in the wrong and start building your confidence back up?

OP posts:
Moser85 · 10/04/2022 01:01

I ended up calling my husband and breaking down. He is still adamant he never slept with anyone else

He is a COMPULSIVE LIAR.
If you found messages from him going back years to a woman talking about how they loved each other, discussing the sex they had, naked pictures...all the evidence of an affair...your husband would lie to you and tell you it was only a pretend affair and that the woman was his friend/therapist who acted all this out with him so he could get a safe thrill without hurting anyone. Hmm
And part of you would believe him.

and when I told him about me dating someone else he said that he still loved me and would forgive me but then listed the things I need to work on within myself.

Forgive you? what an arsehole. I don't think you should be dating but that's because it seems too soon and you have a lot of emotional healing to do. Not because you're doing anything wrong.

He is going to do alie detector test on Monday and send me the results to prove he didnt cheat on me

Lie detectors can't prove that.
but your husband is very clearly a compulsive liar and as you said he is convincing, accomplished liars are often able to pass lie detectors because they are able to stay calm because lying comes so easily to them.

Usernameinsponeeded · 10/04/2022 01:05

Your husband is a liar.
Lie detector test results are seriously not worth the paper they’re printed on.
You asked us to be kind to you, but you need to be kind to yourself and not take this idiot back.
I’m also astonished you moved on to someone else so quickly. For heavens sake, be single. Your self worth isn’t valued by a man or partner. Work on yourself, then you’ll hopefully reach a place where you can see your self worth and how no person with sound mind would even contemplate taking that man back.
As for the guy you’re seeing. If he was truly a friend, he wouldn’t have even considered beginning a relationship with someone who needs to heal. Sounds like another man taking advantage of you. Sorry to sound tough but you need to work on yourself and grow stronger. You do not need a man! Any man.

WildBlueAndDitzy · 10/04/2022 01:24

OP you're relying on men to "make things ok". You need to learn to rely on yourself. It's not a question of do you prefer new man or ex husband. It's do you want to be with an abusive cheating lying prick who uses prostitutes or not. New man doesn't come into the equation.

You build up self esteem by doing things. So the more you do for yourself the better you'll feel. Start small, join a hobby group or an exercise class or something. Do it even if it feels daunting. By doing it you'll be boosting your faith in yourself to make good decisions and cope with things.

Get some numbers for mental health helpline or domestic abuse helpline and whenever you think of calling ex husband call one of them instead , but ensure if it's mental health services you tell them he's abusive and you're looking for the strength to not call him, otherwise they might not grasp the situation and end up suggesting you call him.

Join a women's support group or an anxiety support group (because you're uncertain you can survive the future alone) they'll give you emotional support.

Every day write a list of things you've achieved. You've moved out that's a start. Every day you stay moved out is an achievement.

You won't regret leaving if you make your new life better. So in between grieving the loss of your dreams for a happy marriage with him, start planning that new life. Start daydreaming about all the good things you could do "in an ideal world" but don't include him changing and being a good husband in those fantasies because you've no chance of making that one a reality. However someone else could be a good husband, in time, when you've healed and you're ready for a new relationship.

NannyKrampus · 10/04/2022 01:25

OP, telling you something that you might like to hear is not being kind. Telling you to give your head a wobble and acknowledge that your ex husband is a habitual liar and cheat who gaslights and manipulates you IS being kind. But the greatest kindness is to tell you to learn from the experience, grow and work on yourself and be able to be alone for a while is the greatest kindness!

mummyofcutetwo · 10/04/2022 02:32

@princesjet2, you have made the hardest and strongest step - to leave him. Well done! That takes so much strength and courage. Now comes the next hardest - to not contact him again. The only way he can’t twist things in your mind is to not let him in it.

Do you have any counselling services near you that focus on domestic abuse? You could contact your local refuge and ask them if they know of anything. Also the Freedom program.

You’re doing so well. Don’t let him take you a step backwards Flowers

SunburstsOrMarbleHalls · 10/04/2022 02:40

He is unfaithful and unrepentant.

He wont admit this and come clean about his behaviour

But you know. Please get a sexual heath screening.

He is a master manipulator and liar - now that you do have proof of!
Insinuating he doesn't want to live ie is considering suicide as a weapon is horrible also wildly inappropriate as a pilot to be making them statements if untrue. If he does genuinely feel like that he should not be flying at all presently. If he repeats stuff like that again I would tell him that you feel obligated to report his state of mind to the CAA and FAA.

Faking a heart attack is vile too - you know that is all bullshit don't you? Surely he would be suspended from his course after such a serious medical episode? I am assuming that if he is undergoing rigorous evaluation for any new job it will also include a medical? Someone who had suffered a heart attack a few weeks ago would surely fail this while still in such early stage recovery. Fortunately as he in the US when he had his heart attack there will be tonnes of paperwork in relation to his insurance claim so I'd be expecting to see all of that too. Also who has a confirmed heart attack and is discharged after a few hours?

Lie detector results, seriously? This is nonsense, he is probably downloading an official looking template to provide proof of this crap. Even if he actually has one they can be faked and are notoriously unreliable anyway. Please do not engage in your ex's attempt to turn your life into an episode of Jeremy Kyle.

Also and I mean this gently, now is not the time to start a new relationship. Not while you are still in the eye of such a shit storm.

Fraaahnces · 10/04/2022 03:20

@princesjet2 - Your ex absolutely IS a narcissist. Just because the new guy isn’t working out doesn’t mean that your ex is a better option. Do you know what the best option is? Being by yourself and getting to know who you are. Maybe doing the Freedom Program, learning to spot red flags and head these arseholes off at the pass and gaining some self-confidence. I bet you’ll be up happy.

Yellownightmare · 10/04/2022 03:59

You absolutely need some therapy to get over the way this narcissistic man has worn down your mh to the extent you feel you can't manage without him. He has, in all likelihood, caused you to feel this vulnerable but then made you feel like he was the only one that could prop you up.

It's a masterpiece in manipulation.

He will not change.

HE WILL NOT CHANGE.

Do you really want to be posting about this in ten years time?

People who have recommended that you start to learn to cope on your own before you have another relationship are spot on.

Freedom programme, therapy, cut off contact with your ex. Look up trauma bonding and narcissistic supply. It looks like you may well have been caught up with at least one, and probably both, of these.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 10/04/2022 04:03

What are you confused about?

He is a liar and a cheat. He pays women for sex behind your back.

Why have you not left him? Have a bit of self worth.

mathanxiety · 10/04/2022 04:41

Stop raking over the past.

Your H thinks this is all an amusing game. The more upset you are and the more he feels he is getting away with something the more fun he's having.

The only question you have to ask is, "Am I happy?"

The answer to the question has to be yes or no.

mathanxiety · 10/04/2022 04:48

And why are you giving headspace to the blatant and very pathetic attempts to make you stay? That heart attack story is ridiculous.

There is a photo out there on the internet of a horse tethered to a deck chair in a field. The caption is something to the effect that you are as free as you want to be.

You don't have to stay even if he has a heart attack, a brain tumour, and gets paralysed from the neck down.

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/04/2022 05:49

From what you said, I’m thinking you’re likely expecting your self esteem to come from men rather than providing it yourself. You say your husband is narcissistic. Now you’re dating a man, whom you describe as a relatively long term friend and to whom you are grateful. It sounds as if he was waiting in the wings to swoop onto you as soon as you has left your husband. This seems more like pretty predatory behaviour than help tbh.

You aren’t happy with this new guy. You weren’t happy with your husband. If this new guy is a predator, he is not good for you at all. It sounds as though you are too fragile to be in a relationship right now. You need some alone time to recover from the break up and discover yourself and create boundaries so that you don’t get caught up in the same place again. Maybe try the freedom programme. freedomprogramme.co.uk/

And as for the lie detector test, advocates claim that polygraph tests are between 80-90% effective. I watched the recently broadcast documentary on the Jeremy Kyle show. From memory, the statistic cited there was lie detectors are only ever 66% effective even in the most ideal circumstances. Humans are supposedly 55% accurate.

Bottom line, I wouldn’t entertain anything from your husband. And I would back right off from this long term male friend. You can tell this friend you’re in a fragile state and want some alone time to recover. His reaction will tell you a lot.

DailySheetWasher · 10/04/2022 06:10

[quote princesjet2]@Herja thank you so much for your post, it really resonated with me. How did you eventually accept that you weren't the one in the wrong and start building your confidence back up?[/quote]
It doesn't matter who's wrong. What matters is that you weren't happy and secure in the relationship. That's a perfectly legitimate reason to leave... nobody needs to prove anything or be 'right' to justify calling it a day.

I do think it's too early to be moving on with someone else. You say it's helping you, but what about him? If he's a good person and he cares about you, he's going to get hurt because you are clearly not ready to be with anyone else.

daretodenim · 10/04/2022 06:40

OP you feel like this because over a period of NINE YEARS he broke down your self confidence - literally the confidence you have to believe yourself. He filled those broken bits up with himself. So now it feels easiest to consider going back to him because it's better/more comfortable than feeling the emptiness of where he isn't.

He was able to do this in the first place because he found a weakness in you and subtly exploited it.

I'd highly recommend watching Dr Ramani's YouTube channel. I suspect you might find that she describes a lot of what you've experienced through living with him. And once you can see his tactics, it will make it easier for you to unpick what he's doing. And doing to you.

Also worth reading everything you can about gaslighting - there are some YouTube vids too (can't remember any names). There's the book called "The Human Magnet Syndrome: why we love people who hurt us" by Rosenberg that might be handy.

When you've been manipulated for so long, as you have, it messes with your mind and puts you in a tortuous situation (psychologically) when it comes to totally breaking contact with the manipulator and making the decision. You cannot place your own reality above anything he says - just the attempt makes your brain hurt. How you feel is completely normal. You can get yourself out of this but you first need to understand. Right now you don't understand what's happening, you just feel pulled. Recognising his patterns are common for people like him (like threatening suicide) can be painful, but also a huge relief.

You're not crazy. There's actually nothing wrong with you intrinsically. You're responding like a normal person does after years of manipulation.

Really, go watch Dr Ramani!

tolerable · 10/04/2022 06:42

Op.
i read it,not denying some of it in quickstyle-BUT- included bit you headed orig.post.
in my head..that followed on below...........
UNLESS im wrong-and thats not,that rare ......Like it or not;wewr u looking for support/encouragement/validation? ..avnt read past quickscan page 1...responses...ffs
ok.so.
good.Hes a dickhead louse.

not wanting to believe it-and having no choice but face it...is on him.I couldnt care less how "good he was"-hes a snake,betrayed you,berated you n..you dont need that in your life.
Hope ure parent\next move== as far from him as can be. All the love in world--wont change him.
its your life. theres nothin justifiable in any of the shitshow.
its maybe scary-but..sos hanging bout livin like that forever...walk-dont look back.x

Fraaahnces · 10/04/2022 07:03

@princesjet2 Just letting you know that if there is even the slightest hint of a psychiatric admission, there is no way he would get a second interview with any American airline.

Ddot · 10/04/2022 07:16

He sounds like a master manipulator

oakleaffy · 10/04/2022 07:17

@princesjet2
Your partner clearly has an obsession with sex workers.
A local GP where we lived was jailed years ago for trading controlled drugs for sex ( The workers blackmailed him)

This man was married with children .

Sex with sex workers is compelling for some men.

Don’t believe his lies.

IDontLikeMondays88 · 10/04/2022 07:22

He really is a piece of work.

No contact with him is the only way.

Also, and I say this with kindness but you sound very fragile to be dating. I get that it’s a distraction and can be a confidence booster though

GeneLovesJezebel · 10/04/2022 07:29

What an arse hole he is !
I’ll never understand why men do this . If you want to fuck around go and do it, don’t break perfect nice people in the process.

Maternitynamechange · 10/04/2022 07:57

God he’s the worst isn’t he? He gave you a list of stuff to work on? I bet he told you it takes two to make a relationship work and you have to admit your own faults in all of this. It’s bull shit. Take it from a bunch of women who haven’t been brainwashed by him - never, ever go back to this man.

Sswhinesthebest · 10/04/2022 08:01

Don’t get sucked back in. Of course you remember the good bits and miss those. No relationship is 100% bad and there will always be what ifs. BUT the bad bits don’t make you happy and negate the good bits.

Please don’t succumb to his manipulative ways again.

He’s already given you a list of your faults to undermine your confidence again.

If the new bloke isn’t right, dump him too and start working on you!

MsTSwift · 10/04/2022 08:02

That’s a lot of words. He’s a shagger. Either you put up with it and turn a blind eye or move on. The latter is the sane option.

Indicatrice · 10/04/2022 08:09

This is just exhausting. I changed my vote to YABU because you are choosing to prolong this shit show, OP.

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