Does your DH shout at you?

[peacefullife]

Just that really. It started after we had kids. Now he’s losing his temper and shouting as a way of life. I never know what’s going to set him off. Yesterday one of the breakfast bowls slipped out of my hand and it split some milk on the floor that I immediately cleaned up. He went from super smiley chatty to shout “what the fuck are you doing. Be careful” in front of the kids. The look of anger was the worst. Blazing hatred from his eyes. He then just acts like nothing has happened and wants hugs/kisses and then gets annoyed because I don’t want to chat away happily to someone who has just roasted me in front of my kids. Do you think it’s reasonable to comment/shout anytime anything unexpected happens in the house? Like a spoon being dropped for example? I’d like to know how other people’s households work. I hate it and it’s making me anxious, withdrawn and depressed. I hate raised voices and it makes me feel incompetent. It’s filtering through to every aspect of my life.

Your children are growing up in an abusive household. It's damaging to them.

Is this what you want for them?

It's never acceptable.

I grew up in a abusive home where my dad would shout at everyone. As an adult, hearing people shout makes me freeze. Please think of the impact on your children.

OP this is classic narcissistic abuse; stonewalling, deflection, gaslighting just to name a few. It's intended purpose is to devalue you and keep you in the abuse cycle.

I got instant flashbacks of my narcissistic/sociopathic exH when i read you describe the way your partners face looks when he's in a (narcissistic) rage. Many abusers ramp up the abuse during pregnancy or after children because they know you will be torn in breaking up the family, so you won't leave. It's why many of us who have been in abusive relationships stay far longer than we would have otherwise.

His tactics are working well, he's affecting your mental health and likely that of your children. You and your children would be so much happier away from this man. You will remember what freedom feels like 💐

We have never shouted like that. I find it so intimidating when people raise voices. I couldn’t live like that.

No.

Stop trying to rationalise or normalise the abuse you and your children are living with.

I can't imagine the stress and anxiety a small child must feel growing up know if they make a mistake they will suffer for it instead of being comforted. What a foundation for misery.

Google and read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft.

Every time he shouts he is choosing to do so. He is choosing to abuse you. It's a choice.

[quote peacefullife]@IsThePopeCatholic I’ve tried that. He gets really angry and lashes. Face red. Eyes flashing. He then has his vicious say and off he strops. Then he’s holed up in the bedroom and not speaking for days on end until I apologise. There’s no way to resolve it by approaching it like that because he’s just too furious and will not back down. He’s said before that if I didn’t “push back” and insist on being “right” then it wouldn’t be a problem. But it is a problem. So my choices are to immediately say “sorry” everytime he gets angry regardless what it is that’s set him off eg dropping the bowl. Why should I apologise to another adult? or just to totally ignore it and him as if it never happened and “fake happy it” until he’s jollied out of it. I’ve tried that. It’s soul crushing. Plus my kids see that. They aren’t getting real me right? They don’t see me having any reasonable negotiation power?
I don’t really know where I’m going with this but as my kids are getting older I’m worrying they don’t see or know me because this overshadows everything.[/quote]
OP, you sound really sensible and insightful. You can see how wrong his behaviour is, and I think you know how damaging it is to live like that.
My ex-husband was difficult in many ways and I put up with a lot, for nearly 20 years, when many of my friends thought I was a mug to stay. But if he'd behaved in the way your husband does more than once, I'd have ended it. My dad used to behave like that - shouting, punishing us by sulking until we had grovelled and he could feel he'd "won". I was so desperate to avoid that in my own marriage, I put up with a lot of different crap instead. From your posts it sounds like you are wiser and stronger, and hopefully your kids won't have to act out their own versions of this.

This is abuse, pure and simple. There is no other word for it

It's not right.

It's not normal.

It's hurting your children more than you can possibly imagine.

Go to a solicitor and find out where you would stand if you were to divorce.

Then tell him it stops or you divorce, and mean it.

Find therapy for yourself and the children.

@peacefullife, there is no 'untangling' needed except for the untangling of the marriage contract and the financial ties binding you. You can work on emotional and psychological disengagement with a therapist.

Don't waste to e trying to figure out the key to unearthing the good man you think is in there. There isn't a good man lurking underneath. What you see and hear is what he is.

Abusers abuse because they are abusers. It's that simple.

What are you going to do to save yourself and the children from the abuse?

Just curious how managed to get him assessed. Most narcs would never dream of allowing themselves to be psychologically examined

Through doing exactly as I suggested to the OP, drawing stronger and stronger boundaries and being capable of leaving if he didn't. He didn't like this at all but as he actually did want to continue the relationship with me he started trying to change his behaviours. Narcissists are terrified of abandonment and as my ex was older and probably lacked confidence in his ability to drum up a new partner, I expect this seemed like his best option.

It eventually got to the point where he recognised he needed therapy to deal with issues stemming from his childhood. Being able to transfer blame for his behaviour onto his mother (who had passed away, so he didn't need to confront her) instead of me was really the first step, though over time he began to recognise

His therapist diagnosed narcissism pretty quickly but didn't use that word with him for a long time. He is not at the extreme/malignant end of the scale so is able to recognise his behaviours and make adjustments. Not enough to save our relationship but he has definitely made progress.

It is a myth that people with diagnosable levels of narcissism are ever unable to change. It's just unlikely that they get into therapy in the first place (due to the blame-projecting nature of the disorder) and the fact that their victims generally don't learn to properly stand up for themselves while remaining in the relationship. So they never get the help they need in the first place, and because change takes sustained work, a lot of them do eventually slip back into old patterns and end up becoming insular/remaining single rather than getting into a new relationship.

Whoops, second para should have finished with "started to recognise he was actually capable of choosing different behaviours, even if it was difficult."

I think shouting is normal, tbh

@needhelp34 Not if someone just drops an everyday item. My dad was like that. It's verbal and psychological abuse. And imagine someone shouting at a child for crying when they've hurt themselves.

Is it possible your OH has a medical issue/ illness and this is why his behaviour is so appalling?

@OhPumpkin, are you serious?

This is textbook abuse.

@caringcarer this man does not have an anger management issue.

He manages his anger extremely well and extremely selectively to produce exactly the result he wants - a woman and children frightened of him and constantly paying attention to his mood behind the four walls of his home where nobody else can see what he is doing.

He is not losing his temper. He's using it.

@mathanxiety

This is abuse, pure and simple. There is no other word for it

It's not right.

It's not normal.

It's hurting your children more than you can possibly imagine.

Go to a solicitor and find out where you would stand if you were to divorce.

Then tell him it stops or you divorce, and mean it.

Find therapy for yourself and the children.

This.

You are in a hugely abusive children.

Your children are in an abusive home and they are being emotionally abused.

Please call Womens aid for help and support.

Do not try and fix him.

Call Womens aid for advice on how to get away.

Have you family, friends, colleagues that you trust?

Tell the truth about him.

You are a victim of Donestic Abuse.

Can you get copies of all financials, payslips, pensions, bank accounts, as much as you can.

You need to take this seriously and you need to get your children and yourself away from him.

This is not normal.

This is Domestic Abuse.

Stopped after I kicked him out and divorced him. It's lovely now.

Nope, never and I don’t think shouting is a normal thing to do. He’s either very stressed all of the time or has anger issues, either way he needs medical help.

Mine has never sworn at me like that, but there was about a year of our 12 year marriage where he was increasingly short tempered and shouted often, especially when the kids were messing about, but also at me when I pulled him up on it. His mental health was not in a good place, but he was in denial about how out of hand the mood swings were getting.

In the end it nearly finished us. After many supportative attempts to encourage him to get help, it got to the point it was not fair for children to be exposed to that, so told him he could not live with us until he was engaging with mental health suport. He stayed with his parents for a few weeks, which gave him time away from family stress to think things through. He's now back at home, but has massively reduced his work hours, is taking medication and on the waiting list for talking therapy.

Things have improved massively. I still occasionally have to send him to another room when things are escalating with the kids, and I can see he's not coping, but mostly we're OK. However we are only working through it because he agreed to take the first step with mental health suport. If he hadn't, or if he stops engaging then we both know it will be the end. Not because I want to, but because I have a responsibility to my kids to not let them grow up in an angry household.

They can’t have an accident. It used to be if they fell over and hurt themselves too. He used to get really angry if they cried if they tripped.

What a cunt. An adult who bullies children when they are upset and powerless.

Pathetic.

What are you thinking bringing them up under the same roof as him OP?

The longer you stay in a relationship with him, the more likely they'll replicate this dynamic with their own partners as adults.

You owe it to them to divorce him and show them this is not acceptable behaviour.

These poor kids.

I'm so sorry your.life for now sounds awful. You should not be walking on eggshells incase you upset your partner! I had a fiance like that and he used to shout at me for 3 hours straight. I left him and never looked back. Life is too short you need to leave as he will hit you next!

Mine did and it escalated over the years especially when the kids became teenagers and he became more successful in business. I suffered in silence for years and tried to protect the children. I bit my tongue often to appease him and for fear of things escalating. Long story short; all 3 of my DDs have suffered anxiety, self harm and 1 has an eating disorder. My advice is get out while you can to protect yourself and the children. He will never change! I feel incredible guilt for the damage to my children.

This isn't right.

My DP is very gentle natured to be fair, he's never shouted at me or said anything aggressive or nasty out of spite once in 5 years. Sure we bicker and we've had a few arguments where voices have been raised, but never full on shouting matches, or him totally losing it with me.

My dad was really shouty and aggressive to my mum growing up. I promised myself I would never be in a relationship like that. I don't know what the solution is I'm afraid but please don't let this behaviour become habitual or normal in your household.

Dh has never raised his voice to me.
I had a shouty, angry Dad. I chose the opposite for my life partner

[quote mathanxiety]@OhPumpkin, are you serious?

This is textbook abuse.[/quote]
I'm well aware it is abusive and totally unacceptable and Op should ask him to leave or remove herself and DC from the situation immediately but still possible the man has a medical condition that has changed his character and behaviour and perhaps this could be suggested that he seeks medical advice promptly. I recall an otherwise calm and normal person change beyond all recognition due to a brain tumour.

@OhPumpkin This is not new behaviour as would happen if it were the result of an illness, OP says he's been like it for years. The trigger for him to begin to show what he's like in this respect was when they had children.