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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Does your DH shout at you?

226 replies

peacefullife · 23/02/2022 14:44

Just that really. It started after we had kids. Now he’s losing his temper and shouting as a way of life. I never know what’s going to set him off. Yesterday one of the breakfast bowls slipped out of my hand and it split some milk on the floor that I immediately cleaned up. He went from super smiley chatty to shout “what the fuck are you doing. Be careful” in front of the kids. The look of anger was the worst. Blazing hatred from his eyes. He then just acts like nothing has happened and wants hugs/kisses and then gets annoyed because I don’t want to chat away happily to someone who has just roasted me in front of my kids. Do you think it’s reasonable to comment/shout anytime anything unexpected happens in the house? Like a spoon being dropped for example? I’d like to know how other people’s households work. I hate it and it’s making me anxious, withdrawn and depressed. I hate raised voices and it makes me feel incompetent. It’s filtering through to every aspect of my life.

OP posts:
tootiredtospeak · 23/02/2022 19:12

He sounds really difficult to live with. Everyone is different I dont like being shouted at but the odd confrontation doesnt feel like the end of the world. My DP hates confrontation and arguing he is a natural people pleaser but he always shuts me down which raises my frustration levels. I am not allowed to find anything irritating or annoying and if I do it will be. Just leave it or does it matter. It's not often for the most part we get on great but our communication styles are really different and it's hard sometimes. Only you knows if its abusive or not, or me it sounds like it is as you are walking on eggshells which your kids will pick up on. Dont allow yourself to be treated in a way your not comfortable with. You have to stand up for yourself in life no one else will.

mewkins · 23/02/2022 19:12

@MostlyHappyMummy

What's to untangle? He's a nasty man and behaves atrociously towards you.

That's not difficult to see or understand although I appreciate that deciding not to put up with it must be a hard decision to make.

OP I agree with this. You spend ages running it over in your head and trying to find a cause. Honestly, it's a total waste of time. I suspect he likes the power exploding like this has over you. He enjoys causing a reaction and making you feel intimidated. He can probably also sense that you are moving further from him emotionally so it may ramp up.
PinkSyCo · 23/02/2022 19:21

Why would you stay with a man who shouts at the kids when they fall over and hurt themselves? Ugh, he’s a horrible, vile bully and you should be protecting your poor children from him.

layladomino · 23/02/2022 19:22

Oh Op, he sounds awful. IMO no amount of shouting is acceptable.

Is shouting considered acceptable at work or with your friends or in the shop or the street? No, because it isn't a respectful way of communicating. I was taught that once you shout you devalue your own position and you're losing the arguement if you have to shout.

OK if there's a rare and shocking issue to deal with, but once shouting is part of normal communication there's something badly wrong. ANd it's awful for your children to see and live with.

Ditto all of the above for swearing. I've never sworn at my DH or DC, and they haven't sworn at me.

And this is all especially true when he is shouting about things that don't deserve any sort of negative response, like dropping something or falling over.

Add to that his sulking and manipualtion, and his inability to be criticised in any way himself (why is always those who don't like any criticism who find it very very easy to criticise other people??). He isn't capable of a healthy relationship.

His behaviour is abusive. You and your children deserve so much better.

TwoBigNoisyBoys · 23/02/2022 19:23

My DP of 4 years has never once raised his voice to me. My ExDH used to shout at me aggressively all the time. It used to frighten the life out of me, drive me to tears and did a lot of damage to my self-esteem and eventually our marriage, although that wasn’t the only issue by a long shot.

Note I said EXDH.

Starrynamechange · 23/02/2022 19:25

There is no justification for
A) calling you a bitch
B) shouting at the kids when they have an accident/ hurt themselves
C) shouting at you for spilling the milk

I don’t care what he witnessed growing up or whether he is stressed etc. This is out and our abuse. Please read up as to the impact this has on children and remove them from this environment

Pisces89 · 23/02/2022 19:27

Does my DH shout at me? Yes only if I shout at him first ...

BertramLacey · 23/02/2022 19:31

How much shouting is normal?

I wouldn't normalise it at all. I mean some people shout more than others, but I wouldn't consider it 'normal' even though it might be a common occurrence.

What if he can go a month without doing it but then we get caught in traffic and that stresses him out so he’s then angry and aggressive for the rest of the day. How do other people handle that?

So even if he's not actually angry and shouting, you're waiting for the next outburst? So it's not just about the shouting, but the continual living in fear of it and trying to handle him so he doesn't do it. I don't handle it because I don't need to. My DP doesn't shout at me and only very rarely shouts at anything. If he does, he calms down very quickly. True, we don't have kids together but I don't they are a justification for shouting. The reverse really, I'd rather any kids didn't grow up thinking shouting is normal.

Is it then on me to calm him down?

No. He's a grown up. He can manage his own emotions.

Gowithme · 23/02/2022 19:32

He's emotionally abusing you all and I agree with him ticking boxes for narcissism. Everyone always thinks they're the nice guy, but it's surface only. That extreme perfectionism - you will never be good enough no matter what you do. He is never wrong, will never apologise. He is extremely controlling. You will start to doubt yourself and question everything. He is an emotional vampire and will suck every happy emotion out of you if you let him.

I think @CheekyHobson has given you very extremely advice on how to handle it.

PaperClips007 · 23/02/2022 19:34

You poor poor thing, I don't usually respond to threads, but to you I felt I had to.

I once had a shouty husband, he's now very much an ex. I lived on egg shells for a number of years. It started with little things like you mentioned then it escalated into something far worse.

I couldn't wait for him to leave the house so we (I had two young children) could breath a sigh of relief.

The shouting soon turned really nasty and personal. I would be told to sit down while he shouted in my face, his face contorted with rage. That I was a mess, the house wasn't tidy enough, the kids are to loud, diner is late, I gave his drink in the wrong cup, I'm stupid, I'm fat (size 8 ) I'm ugly and so the list went on and on.

The shouting then escalated into being shoved around, a couple of slaps. Always so much remorse, stressful day always someone else's fault. Finally, he beat me up, all because I fell asleep and didn't answer the door in a reasonable time because he forgot his keys.

I won't go into much more detail, but after a few years of living like this, I had a stroke. The stress & anxiety got to much my body shut down as it begged "enough" It wasn't the beating I took that was the worse it was the constant shouting, the name calling the full on abuse that crept up on me. I never in a million years saw it coming.

It became normal because I became desensitised to being shouted at. None of his words would make me cry anymore, so he got more angry.

I accepted my ex's behaviour as being my fault, . In the midst of an abusive relationship I never fully realised the extent to how much I was being abused.

Please, keep a diary. Keep a note of what sets him off, so you can understand his behaviour is not because of you. It's HIS behaviour and he needs to own this.

Please take a browse through Women's Aid when you have time, this support network helped me out of my situation.

Please know from the comments above this is NOT ACCEPTABLE by any means. This may be learnt behaviour from his parents, it may not, but whatever it is - it is not your responsibility to manage or make amends for his actions as these are his alone.

There is no excuse for anyone let alone your husband to treat you this way. NO EXCUSE

I wish you well and I hope maybe he can if he admits he has a problem is get some anger management counselling. If not to save your marriage then to help build a more responsible relationship between him and the children x

MissMaple82 · 23/02/2022 19:42

This is classed and mental abuse. You will eventually become a wreck. Leave him

Ihaveoflate · 23/02/2022 19:47

I grew up with a dad like this. He's now dead and I'm left with such barely repressed anger towards my mother for enabling it, that we struggle to maintain a relationship. I had severe mental health problems growing up and have spent my adult life learning what healthy relationships look like. Don't let that be your children's future.

This type of behaviour is traumatising and leaves a lasting emotional legacy. Please don't underestimate the effect this is having on your children.

CTR1000 · 23/02/2022 19:49

No. Absolutely not. I would leave if he ever raised his voice to me.

My Dad shouted at my Mum for years - pure emotional abuse. I still remember it, and found it traumatic as a child. I’ve always said I would never stay with a man who did the same to me.

skodadoda · 23/02/2022 19:51

@newbiename

He shouts and does the silent treatment. Both abusive. He's controlling because he's trying to train you not to disagree with him. No way for you or your children to live ☹️
This.
Finallyreachedmylimit · 23/02/2022 19:54

Yes mine does, at the drop of a hat and uses really flamboyant over the top language to accuse me of things, just tonight I've been accused of "hurling abuse" when I tried to have a conversation with him about him making a bit more effort over something. He then stormed out of the room screaming and slammed the door. I haven't tried to console or plead with him as I'm keeping my head down until I let him know I'm leaving in a months time. I need to keep the facade up and get past the multitude of social events that are going on for his 50th birthday.

I will lose everything when I leave including most friends as they don't see his nasty side. I have a couple of friends that I think will stick by me but we'll see. I'll be skint, lonely and largely unsupported but at least I'll have peace and be free. It's taken me a long time to get to this point and I hope you do too. Flowers

caringcarer · 23/02/2022 19:54

You and children must live walking on egg shells. No, it is not normal nor acceptable. He clearly has anger management issues. I would be telling him go and get help or leave. You can't bring up well adjusted children in a fearful atmosphere. It will be same the children for life. What a dreadful role model he is proving to be. How can you feel happy and loved living like this? You would be happier, and children definately would if he was not there. Make him get help, or are you afraid of him? If you are afraid, think how your children feel.

CheekyHobson · 23/02/2022 19:56

No amount of trying to make him understand caused the change, it was something he arrived at as I stopped hiding the natural consequences of his behaviour from him.

@HeyMoana has pointed out such a critical thing to understand.

You cannot reason with someone with a dysfunctional thinking model. They have to experience the negative consequences for their negative behaviours/choices and dislike those consequences enough to be motivated to behave differently.

This is true for you as well as your husband. You also have a dysfunctional thinking model, which is that when someone important to you blames you for their aggressive, rude, selfish or otherwise negative behaviours, you ACCEPT the blame and respond by trying to be more 'perfect'. Over time, you have realised that the consequence of doing things this way is that you feel stifled, inadequate, resentful and scared of showing your true feelings for fear that you will be punished by your husband (a person who is meant to care about your feelings and want you to be happy) for having them.

So now you are ready to change. You are ready to refuse to accept your husband's behaviour and say what you're really thinking, which is, "I think shouting is an unhelpful and negative way to respond to an accident or problem. I don't like it and trying to live with it makes me very unhappy. Either it goes, or I go."

coodawoodashooda · 23/02/2022 19:58

My xh thought Id get used to this too. Throwing him out was the only solution.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 23/02/2022 20:03

He's behaviour is unacceptable and you would be entirely within reason to file for divorce.

ThackeryBinks · 23/02/2022 20:18

My ex was like this and I can honestly say it was very bad for the kids. I looked back over old photo's recently and I can now see the stress signs in my DD's. My Dp is a lovely man who has to be very gentle with all of us. NMy DD were taking to ex PIL today. Ex FIL said that their Dad gets angry when he's hungry. DD answered that he must be hungry a lot. How PIL laughed.

inheritancetrack · 23/02/2022 20:23

this type of person does it because he feels he is entitled to treat you in this way because he is more important than you. If you get upset or angry and call him out on the behaviour, he will switch it around and you are the problem. He'll gaslight you into feeling guilty and confused. If you ignore it he thinks it normal behaviour and it will continue of escalate, as you let him get away with it, but if you don't, then it escalates. this is a no win situation and results in depression, self doubt and loss of self esteem. If you have a good job, get rid of him.

Toomuchleopard · 23/02/2022 20:28

OP my husband of 16 years shouts all the time at me, the kids, the dog, the cat, other drivers on the road, his mum. I left in October and live in a very calm household. I only managed to get the kids 50% of the time so they are still subjected to it which worries me greatly. He normalises his behaviour and has no idea of the impact on everyone else.

urbanbuddha · 23/02/2022 20:35

@Finallyreachedmylimit

Well done for making the decision to reclaim your life.
You've paid into the house whether financially or otherwise. See a solicitor about how to reach a financial settlement, or try Citizens Advice. It's your money too.

Faevern · 23/02/2022 20:35

Leave him, do it for your children, if you are affected why have you not thought about badly affects them?

turksturban · 23/02/2022 20:36

@CheekyHobson

he will get aggressive via email with organisations/strangers. He’s sweet as pie to everyone else. Sometimes he’s borderline nasty through piss taking/mockery. He’s brutally honest. When he turns on the charm everyone fawns over him. In general people would say “really nice guy”

It feels like he’s determined to prove I’m not perfect? While at the same time it not being ok to take any kind of criticism at all. It’s very hard to untangle

He gets really angry and lashes. Face red. Eyes flashing. He then has his vicious say and off he strops. Then he’s holed up in the bedroom and not speaking for days on end until I apologise. There’s no way to resolve it by approaching it like that because he’s just too furious and will not back down. He’s said before that if I didn’t “push back” and insist on being “right” then it wouldn’t be a problem. But it is a problem. So my choices are to immediately say “sorry” everytime he gets angry regardless what it is that’s set him off eg dropping the bowl.

All this I could have written word-for-word about my ex, who now has a formal diagnosis of narcissism from a psychologist.

I would suggest doing a lot of reading about narcissism and see what rings true for you. There's a lot to process and get to understand about the disorder.

(Side note: Do not tell your husband about this as it will likely only upset him, but it will start to give you clarity and some assurance that you're not crazy.)

It's likely your husband comes from an abusive family or experienced significant social trauma as a teenager so has formed dysfunctional mental models of how to operate in relationships. It can be treated (but not cured... depending on the severity of his condition, the dysfunctional thinking will likely recur throughout his life when he is under stress) but it takes a hell of a lot of work and willingness on his part, as well as your ability to have compassion for the fact that he suffered trauma as a child/young adult and is damaged by it.

You will also need to work to fix your own people-pleasing tendencies and start to put crystal-clear boundaries in place that you are prepared to enforce. A good example of this relating to your current situation might be (delivered at a time when he is calm and you can talk for a while afterwards):

"Husband, I need to talk to you about your shouting. When you shout at me, I find it extremely stressful and upsetting. I feel like you're shaming me and trying to frighten me into never making mistakes or having accidents. But every person in the world makes mistakes and has accidents, and shouting in anger only creates an atmosphere of fear and stress around completely normal events, even if those events are not ideal.

"Your repeated shouting is making me and the children unhappy to the point where I am strongly reconsidering whether I want to remain in this relationship. It's not a healthy environment for me or them. I understand that you get upset when something doesn't go right but creating an atmosphere of fear and shame won't fix a broken plate or erase a poorly-thought-out sentence.

I would like you to commit to stopping shouting at me and the kids. I understand that it's a long-term habit and probably won't change perfectly overnight, but I can't live with the expectation that it's fine and normal any longer. If you shout by accident, I expect you to immediately recognise that it's an unhealthy way to handle problems, apologise, and take yourself away to cool off until you can approach the issue calmly. I will make the same commitment to you. I need you to understand this is a deal-breaker for me. I love you but I cannot live with the unhappiness your shouting is causing me anymore."

Your husband's response to this will tell you a lot. If he insists that shouting is totally normal and fine and he's not going to change who he is and your expectations are totally unrealistic etc etc, this is a clear sign that he is not ready to address his issues at all. Do not try to argue with him; it will go nowhere. Just say, "Okay. I can see we have very different perspectives on this. Thank you for being honest with how you see it."

Then make firm plans to leave. I'm completely serious. If your husband can't address an issue of respect as basic as not shouting in anger at people he loves, you are only in for many more years of pain in the future.

If he shows some recognition of his issues, but seems uncertain about his ability to change, suggest therapy. Casting it as couples therapy might help, but stay clear in your mind that you do not cause him to shout – this is a 'him' problem. A good couples therapist will be on your side with this one.

"All this I could have written word-for-word about my ex, who now has a formal diagnosis of narcissism from a psychologist. "

Just curious how managed to get him assessed. Most narcs would never dream of allowing themselves to be psychologically examined

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