He's got a fact finding hearing in court

[userclip]

So I've been in a relationship for a few ninety's and things are going well but just wondering if I should take a step back or be a little careful

Basically this week he is going to court to get access to child (hasn't seen them for 8 months) but it turns out this week is a fact finding hearing because of allegations the ex has made, he claims all are untrue and no proof extra but I'm just wondering if a fact finding hearing is just usual practice or are these only done when absolutely necessary

He claims he's totally moved on from ex and things were bad for while before they split but he seems to be getting really worked up about having to see her in court (maybe this is normal to feel like that) Also just found out this weekend that they were in fact meant to of got married last august, everything booked and paid for

The fact he hasn't even shared with you what the problems are tells you that they can not be good, and I would hedge to say he is not an innocent party or he would be happy to share the details -

I've also had a fact finding hearing regarding serious abusive behaviour.

I think by the time it gets to a fact finding there has been a lot of dealings with the family courts and other professionals. The whole process is very consuming and stressful. There may well be aligations on both sides. So not necessarily just an issue with one parents behaviour but both of them. I suspect you won't really get to the bottom of what's fine on and that's a serious consern in itself

The other thing is why is he not seeing the child in a contact centre atm? Are the aligations so serious that that isn't an option???!!!

Do you have young children yourself, as there is a possibility that the authorities may want to talk to you.

1000% would not get involved.

@wingscrow

Red flags...don't even take the risk.

Abusive men always blame their 'crazy ex' and claim they have done nothing wrong.

The police were called when they spilt up, he has to go to a fact finding hearing & you caught him failing to mention that they were going to wed. Too much drama.

Even if there is a minute chance that his ex partner is the one who caused this, you probably would then be stuck in the middle of a long term tug of war between her and your partner with his children used as weapons for revenge.

Do yourself a favour and end it.

And yet. We were victims of a really crazy ex. They do actually exist and they reap havoc ...

If a woman does not want the kids to see dad they can literally string it out for years. Despite a court order. A court order isn't magic .. it's a piece of paper that logical rationale people will comply with. In our case we went through SEVEN enforcement hearings before a new judge gave us full custody. Even then the police had to come and facilitate the move.

Even if the guy is the wronged one (eyeroll), it's all a lot of baggage he's got going on there. Is he really such a fantastic catch? Chuck this one back in the sea. You can do better than this.

From the children s law centre. As you can see they are 'increasingly common. ' They are far from rare and there need be no evidence at all. They are required when one party denies an allegation of abuse.

Over recent years, since Practice Direction 12J was introduced, it has become increasingly common for Children Act proceedings to include a special type of hearing called a Fact Finding Hearing.
What is a Fact Finding Hearing?
A Fact Finding Hearing is a type of court hearing that considers the evidence surrounding allegations. This is a special hearing which is arranged to decide whether an alleged incident took place or not.
Fact finding hearings are common in children law cases but can also happen during other family law proceedings such as for domestic violence injunctions, divorces.
When is a Fact Finding Hearing required?
Often these types of hearings are required when one parent has accused the other of domestic abuse, for example. The court would usually decide at an early stage, in an application for a child arrangements order, whether a Fact-Finding Hearing will be required and, if so, it would be scheduled to take place before the application proceeds any further.
The court must determine, as a fact, whether the alleged incident/incidences of abuse took place because only then can the court determine if or how this should impact upon the arrangements for the child or children involved. A Fact-Finding Hearing is not always required where domestic abuse is alleged, but it will be if the allegation is denied and if it is the case that if proven it would materially impact upon the risk of harm to the child and be relevant to the court’s ultimate determination of the child arrangements.
The evidence in a family court case is judged “on the balance of probabilities”. This means that the court will determine if it is more likely than not that the alleged incident took place. This is a lower threshold than in a criminal case where the burden of proof is “beyond all reasonable doubt”. Given the issues involved and the deeply personal nature of these type of disputes, preparing clear evidence is crucial whether you are the person alleging the abuse of the person defending those allegations.

@pollygartertidywife

From the children s law centre. As you can see they are 'increasingly common. ' They are far from rare and there need be no evidence at all. They are required when one party denies an allegation of abuse.

Over recent years, since Practice Direction 12J was introduced, it has become increasingly common for Children Act proceedings to include a special type of hearing called a Fact Finding Hearing.
What is a Fact Finding Hearing?
A Fact Finding Hearing is a type of court hearing that considers the evidence surrounding allegations. This is a special hearing which is arranged to decide whether an alleged incident took place or not.
Fact finding hearings are common in children law cases but can also happen during other family law proceedings such as for domestic violence injunctions, divorces.
When is a Fact Finding Hearing required?
Often these types of hearings are required when one parent has accused the other of domestic abuse, for example. The court would usually decide at an early stage, in an application for a child arrangements order, whether a Fact-Finding Hearing will be required and, if so, it would be scheduled to take place before the application proceeds any further.
The court must determine, as a fact, whether the alleged incident/incidences of abuse took place because only then can the court determine if or how this should impact upon the arrangements for the child or children involved. A Fact-Finding Hearing is not always required where domestic abuse is alleged, but it will be if the allegation is denied and if it is the case that if proven it would materially impact upon the risk of harm to the child and be relevant to the court’s ultimate determination of the child arrangements.
The evidence in a family court case is judged “on the balance of probabilities”. This means that the court will determine if it is more likely than not that the alleged incident took place. This is a lower threshold than in a criminal case where the burden of proof is “beyond all reasonable doubt”. Given the issues involved and the deeply personal nature of these type of disputes, preparing clear evidence is crucial whether you are the person alleging the abuse of the person defending those allegations.

Thats nice.

You still did 7 years and spent £25k doing this.

The OP doesn't need to put herself through this process at all.

Thats the point.

Don't be polly OP. Don't do 7 years of stress and then say to other people that none of that matters and minimise the impact that may have or the risk you might be taking here.

Polly might have got an innocent partner who was done by the system. What guarantees does she have that its true for you too OP? What is she going to say to you if you do pursue the relationship based off her comments that not everyone is guilty only for you to come back in 2 years, pregnant and saying 'i should have listened to those red flags'?

Its not worth the gamble. And its not worth putting yourself through the rough time, which Polly herself has admitted upthread, when you have to choice not to anyway.

What she is advocating is seriously unhealthy, unwise and somewhat delusional - its trying to justify why SHE put herself through it - its not what about YOUR best interests and wellbeing.

Thank you for all the reply's, I have listened to everything you have said and processing it all at the moment.

To answer a couple of questions, yes I have children myself, youngest is 7 and rest are older teens 15 years upwards, i definitely would not be having any more children.

His child is 4 years and he hasn't seen them since last June, it appears she left and went to a refuge and then was housed but he doesn't know where, apparently she shouldn't of been in contact with him when she left to the refuge but she didn't snd that's when a lot of emails were sent saying not to worry you will see the child again one day etc (I've seen these)

Today is the first day in court, he called me this morning and said he felt sick about having to see her again and having to look at her face.... I can't work out of this is a normal re action as I have never myself been though this type of thing with my ex

I'm definitely proceeding with caution at the moment and ready to bale 100%, so interested to hear later what went on in court today.

I will come back and update any new info later today

Why on earth would you leave and go to a refuge if he's not done something?

Splitting up is one thing. Going to a refuge is something else entirely.

She went to a refuge with her small child? Christ, why on earth are you even contemplating having anything to do with this man?

You have children FFS.

His ex ended up in a refuge!
Think about this op, she didn't simply move out and set up a life elsewhere. She was moved to a refuge with her child for safety reasons he was not told where they were. The fact finding hearing will be very serious, and given the fact SHE ended up in the refuge tells us everything we need to know.
What more do you possibly need to find out?

He feels sick knowing what he did to her maybe? That all the details will be heard publicly in court? He still has feelings for her perhaps?

The internal alarms should be screaming by now op surely? You have young children, I can not believe you are even contemplating keeping him in your life

Di you live together, easier to get rid of if you don't. Can you tell him you want to take things slowly until this is over.

Oh, come on now, OP!

Who takes their child a refuge for a laugh?

And you’ve got a 7 year old? Don’t risk this.

You should not be giving this man the benefit of the doubt

You should be prioritising the potential risk to your kids.

This is just pure selfishness on your part and being flattered by his attention.

Red flag bunting op.

End it.

OP ignore the poster advising claiming NAMALT, seven years of stress and 25k worth of debt would not be a life most would choose.

If his ex ended up in a refuge think what this means....she ran from everything in her life to escape him, her home, her friends and family, how abusive must he have been for her to take such a massive step? I don't believe for a minute she is lying or a "crazy ex" to have ended up there and to uproot her childs life like that. Abusive men always claim they are innocent and blame the woman, that's textbook.

Leave him now before you end up running for your life too, please!

I always used to wonder why it seemed so easy for dangerous and violent men to pick up their next victims particularly ones with young children and now we can see how it happens.

A lot of minimising
A lot of looking the other way
A lot of pretence that he will be lovely with me, what we have is 'special'
A hell of a lot of risk to their young children and themselves

And yet it appears that almost nothing can deter them until it is their turn...

@userclip

Thank you for all the reply's, I have listened to everything you have said and processing it all at the moment.

To answer a couple of questions, yes I have children myself, youngest is 7 and rest are older teens 15 years upwards, i definitely would not be having any more children.

His child is 4 years and he hasn't seen them since last June, it appears she left and went to a refuge and then was housed but he doesn't know where, apparently she shouldn't of been in contact with him when she left to the refuge but she didn't snd that's when a lot of emails were sent saying not to worry you will see the child again one day etc (I've seen these)

Today is the first day in court, he called me this morning and said he felt sick about having to see her again and having to look at her face.... I can't work out of this is a normal re action as I have never myself been though this type of thing with my ex

I'm definitely proceeding with caution at the moment and ready to bale 100%, so interested to hear later what went on in court today.

I will come back and update any new info later today

He feels sick having to see her face? I assume he men's because of guilt? The t his behaviour resulted in his child and their mother having o seek safety in a refuge? Or is he already twisting it so she looks like the bad guy?

Ruuuuuuuun for the hills.

What would you advise YOUR child to do if they came to you with this information.

"Mum, my new bf has a kid he hasn't seen, because his ex went to a refuge with them, and now he's going to court for a fact finding, which actually he lied about to me. Should me and my kids stick with him?"

OP - when did he tell you his ex went to a refuge?

If it was this morning, this is yet another example of his withholding information from you.

If earlier, that was your cue to leave him.

@Hen2018

Something else to think about is that most couples with children who split up, don’t go to court at all.

Something has happened that access cannot be decided between the parents. It then can’t be decided in your normal court proceedings.

It’s gone to a finding of fact - about as detailed and serious as you can get. This is not normal.

Of course he’s telling you she has made everything up. He’s already shown you he’s a liar.

This is similar to having a new boyfriend and him suddenly springing on you that he’s going to court for, let’s say, burglary next week but he’s “innocent”.

This is serious.

@Hen2018 - agreed with you 99.9%, I worked in a solicitors for 5 years, 2 directly with family/divorce cases and once there was a finding of fact case - that was very serious and took ages to sort out. As @Hen2018 says a fact finding is indeed as detailed and serious as you can get as, certainly not normal and the access can't be decided between the parents nor discussed in normal court proceedings. Consent orders don't go to court as in e.g. there's no court hearing.

If we ever did have very strange (and unusual) cases where an ex wanted access, blamed ex-spouse etc we'd take them on but err on side of disbelieving either side. In fact, for me, after working with these cases most times I wouldn't get involved with a man who's still got a separation/divorce case ongoing with a solicitor but that's just my POV.

He is a liar and naturally saying she's lying.

If you want to crack on and see him then by all means do so and deal with the consequences which won't be pretty.

@Hen2018

OP - when did he tell you his ex went to a refuge?

If it was this morning, this is yet another example of his withholding information from you.

If earlier, that was your cue to leave him.

Ye gods - it gets worse....

Genuine question.
If the fact finding hearing decided the ex's wife's allegations were not true and he had not done anything wrong, that could be proven anyway.
What would your advice be to OP?

I think, for me, the fact the ex went to a refuge speaks volumes to me and I would probably finish with the man.

@Bullandbush

Genuine question. If the fact finding hearing decided the ex's wife's allegations were not true and he had not done anything wrong, that could be proven anyway. What would your advice be to OP?

I think, for me, the fact the ex went to a refuge speaks volumes to me and I would probably finish with the man.

@Bullandbush - I'd still run.

Still sounds messy regardless. If you like that drama of dealing with an ex-wife and possible back and forth to lawyers/courts etc and the wrangling which ensues or can ensue then yeah, go ahead if you enjoy the drama.

I'd prefer a calmer life without this to be honest. Not worth the drama.

Nope nope nope. Get out of there.

She went to a refuge. I doubt any woman would choose to do that to spite their ex and stop him getting visitation/custody.

So they were going to get married and she ended up taking her child to a refuge? OP seriously here as a mother yourself what are you feeling when you hear that this woman ran with her child to a refuge, what is your gut feeling? Can you imagine how bad things would have to be for you to do that with your seven year old, the fear and confusion that child would feel?

Best case scenario here, he is a liar, he didn't tell you about them having arranged their wedding, don't wait to find out the worst case scenario, you have kids that have to come first.

Lots of people hate their exes and feel sick about seeing them. That doesn't have to be just women. Like you say, it's better to wait and see what the judge rules then you'll know what's gone on and can make an informed decision about your future.