Can a relationship with a PD partner ever work?

[Sh1vers]

I feel silly writing this, but I am actually not sure where else to write this. Please move this to a more suitable forum if I picked the wrong one.
I'm with my boyfriend a bit more than a year, and I am having doubts, but I also think that I am the one who is unfair here :(

I recently found out that my partner has a personality disorder, and it is freaking me out. At the same time I know that I am being super judgmental and I don't want to be this person. I started googling things and everything sounds doomed, and I am just so sad about it.

Some years ago I left a very toxic and abusive relationship, and I swore never to let this happen to me again. Yet here I am, wondering about my every choice and whether to trust my judgement.

I really hope reading this won't upset anyone who suffers from a personality disorder, because it's not my intention to judge. I'm just not in a very good place myself (depression and anxiety), and I think I am wondering if this is a combination that can ever work, even though I really want it to.

There will no doubt be challenging times in this relationship. To get a clearer idea though I think we need more info.

Do you know which PD your DP is diagnosed with? How is his behaviour is concerning to you currently? Crucially, what support/ therapeutic intervention does your DP have in place?

I don’t think somebody with multiple mental health problems and somebody with a personality disorder - unless you both really have your shit together, are emotionally literate, have done a lot of therapy and have effective coping strategies for the bad times - are going to be good partners for each other. You both have needs that it’s unfair to expect the other to meet when they also have their own health to consider. The fact that you’re having doubts and asking whether your relationship is doomed suggests that there are already multiple issues you’ve come up against and that neither of you are totally in the “got shit together, background of effective therapy, good coping mechanisms” category. This won’t be a good partnership for either of you.

Yes, I know the PD but only found out recently. I have to admit that I have myself to blame for it because I think he did try to tell me about it before, but I had blocked it off.
He has been in voluntary therapy since before we met, and there are (I believe) just two people who know about it apart from me.
To be honest there has only been one incident which really upset me, and it never recurred. There were some behavioral oddities in my eyes, but I had always put them down as quirks and character traits.
I think I just feel a bit hopeless at the moment because I am not sure if I can trust my own head.

I think if you have your own MH/anxiety issues it'd be best to swerve this relationship.

You realise loads of people have PD and you might not ever know right? Give him a chance?

I suppose it depends on the personality disorder.

Sociopathy, psychopathy and Npd, no. Run for the fucking hills.

I feel the same about borderline personality disorder too tbh. I get why people have more sympathy for those with it, but I wouldn't date someone with it. Not to mention some sufferers are arguably more manipulative in relationships than even the narcissists are (not that this applies with all of course).

If its any if those, give it a wide swerve op. Especially considering your history of abuse as your boundaries will already be weakened.

It's OK to be single you know op. Don't take daft risks.

It's very hard to advise without knowing which personality disorder it is.

Also, if you're already worried to trust your own judgement then absolutely don't risk continuing to date!

You have every right to say no to someone for any reason. You don't need to justify it.

And being single I'd always preferable to being in a relationship where you feel unsafe or worried about your ability to walk away should it become toxic.

If you are struggling now, imagine how much harder it would be to give yourself permission to walk away later.

Why won't you say what personality disorder it is?

Is he toxic and abusive, have any of his actual behaviours given him cause for concern?

Step away from Google and actually talk to him about what that disorder means.

Perhaps you would like to look at the site Personality Disorder in The BIn for a critical look at the label of personality disorder.

I think I just feel a bit hopeless at the moment because I am not sure if I can trust my own head

This is the crux of your problem, in this relationship, and the previous one, and quite possibly in others in your life, too.

When you feel a particular way in a relationship, don't judge it with your head. You don't need your head to tell you anything about how you feel. Our heads do funny things, like tell us it's a good idea to have another glass of wine, or that we'd probably be best not to go to the gym today, or that we don't need to get started on that all important task just yet. Our heads, essentially, tell us a load of crap.

How does this relationship make you feel? You say hopeless. OK. So that's not good, is it. Filter the people you keep company with by how your relationship with them makes you feel, rather than by whether you think that that feeling is right or wrong.

How does he make you feel, in general? How do you feel when you're with him? How do you feel when you say hello to him? How do you feel when you say goodbye to him?

I’m sorry, I didn’t realise how many people had responded to me. I will try to answer all questions, as it wasn’t my intention to skip over things.
It actually is Aspd, and reading up on it is what made me upset because I couldn’t find anything redeeming about it. There seems to be lots on bpd relationships, but nothing on aspd. I had noticed that he was a bit strange in some regards but had thought him to just be a bit eccentric and ambitious.
He isn’t abusive to me, and while we generally only see each other at the weekends I am really looking forward to being with him. There was just one incident a few months after we got together where he suddenly completely changed personality and got absolutely cold and aggressive. It really freaked me out and brought back memories of that horrible relationship in the past which I never ever want to relive. I actually left that day and was really shaken for days, and he eventually apologised and seemed pretty ashamed. It had actually been a total misunderstanding but he had blown up so quickly that it escalated into this completely unreasonable situation. It hasn’t happened since, but I think he realised that I had been ready to walk away that day.
Apart from this blow up things are good and I enjoy being with him, but I know the other side is there.
He is quite different in work and seems to be totally inconsiderate and, in my eyes, a bit of a bully. There is quite a lot of lying and manipulation, and he insists that it’s just a game you have to play in order to advance in the job. I might be a bit sensitive here in this regard, because I would really struggle with someone like this in my work, but his colleagues and manager don’t seem to mind.

It’s just shaken me now when I stupidly read up on the disorder and started to wonder if I just misinterpreted so many things. He has a stable job, some good and decent friends, and he seems to be good to the people he holds dear. We did speak a little about the disorder but I didn’t tell him how much it upset and scared me. I don’t want to say that because I don’t want him to think that he isn’t good enough or so.

Personality disorder or not, he doesn’t sound like a nice person or somebody who will be good for you in the long term. And considering ASPD is generally something that’s diagnosed over a long period of time on the back of a whole history of events which indicated extremely unorthodox and damaging behaviour, I’d imagine you’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg in the few months you’ve known him.

I’d knock this one on the head, do some more therapy for yourself, work on your boundaries and why you were even questioning in your head whether to stay with somebody you’ve described as manipulative, a liar and inconsiderate - and stay single for a while as you do so. It sounds like like this isn’t the first damaged man you’ve picked as a project to work on.

The problem with Anti-Social Personality Disorder is fundamentally, emotions are not genuine with these people on the whole.

Remorse is not genuinely felt but has to be learned, like a second language. The big thing would be love for me though as if you have to learn to love, it doesn't feel right for me as a person.

Can people with this disorder be nice people? Certainly, they aren't all mean spirited assholes.

But as you've demonstrated manipulation and deceit is a big part of many of their personalities. Do they mean to? Some may not, but it's just second nature to them like being defensive if someone accuses us is to most people.

I wouldn't want a relationship personally with someone who acts in a bullying manner as I'm naturally a very empathetic person - but different people will see that differently.

I know one man who has this disordered. He's absolutely fine and we are 'friends' in a distant sense. But you can always feel a certain level of disconnect. Like he has to wait a second to read the cue cards so he knows what he's saying is OK.

He's very open about it though and disappointed that his love and companionships are conditional as he'd like to think normally. He is however a bit of a charmer and will try to flatter you. He has had issues with violence in the past but as a reaction instead of starting fights.

Personally, I think you'd need to have a lot of personal conviction and self belief to knowingly enter a relationship with someone in the cluster b personality group (antisocial, histrionic, borderline or Narcissistic).

I had to google and can entirely see why it freaked you out! I'm going to advise based purely on the actual behaviour you describe though and tbh that would be enough for me to walk away. The aggression you witnessed is clearly there beneath the surface and I would never be able to fully relax around someone I knew was capable of that. And the lying and manipulation at work I would find completely unattractive, bullies give me the ick. So I would be out, but based on his behaviour, not the google definition of ASPD.

He is quite different in work and seems to be totally inconsiderate and, in my eyes, a bit of a bully. There is quite a lot of lying and manipulation, and he insists that it’s just a game you have to play in order to advance in the job. I might be a bit sensitive here in this regard, because I would really struggle with someone like this in my work, but his colleagues and manager don’t seem to mind.

Aspd is quite common in successful business people. Business success often requires hard decisions and the ability to not agonize about others. Aspd traits make this easy.

Aspd people can be incredibly charming and convincing. Then one day the mask slips - often when you've "defied" them by disagreeing or refusing to do something they want. You have already seen this happen once.

It's pretty easy for someone to be sweetness and light 2 days per week.

With your background I would walk away, no question.

No, they don't work because he doesn't see others in the same way a normal person like yourself sees others.

I'm sure you've read these people see others as tools as a means to an end.

You mention the blow up and aggression from that time, what did he do?

You're description of how he treats people at work is a good example of how he really sees them.

Are you an agreeable type of person who will go along with things? Seeing him on weekends isn't really going to bring out his true self, unless he doesn't get his way.

So no, I wouldn't continue on with him at all and would be cautious when ending it.

There was just one incident a few months after we got together where he suddenly completely changed personality and got absolutely cold and aggressive

I think it's a good idea to recognise that he can't choose not to do this. It's a disorder of the personality, not an odd mood. This is who he is. This is what he sometimes does. If you're happy with this behaviour lurking in the background of your relationship, then that's ok. And if you're happy having a relationship with someone who you acknowledge is a bully, that's ok. But if I were you, I'd be questioning why I was happy with those things.

Did you have a good example of a healthy adult relationship when you were growing up? Were your parents happy and respectful of each other? Were they respectful of you?

Holy shit op he is an actual diagnosed psychopath?! Run for the hills!

Its terrifying that you even have to ask if you should ve considering pursuing this relationship.

You know this personality disorder is not the same as mental illness right? He is not sick, he just isn't wired like the rest of us. And that's never going to change.

He doesn't have empathy. So what if he can hold down a job. That's a pretty low bar op xD I mean I'm sure Hitler worked on occasion..and he was arguably 'only' a narcissist.

Just, seriously op, get out. Get out now. And consider some councilling before dating again qs it seems you have some self esteem issues and perhaps codependecy issues that need addressing before dating again.

You say that your background is having been in a toxic and abusive relationship. Did you get counselling and/or do something like the freedom programme after that?

The thing is, this is not an easy diagnosis to make or one that someone accidentally stumbles upon. It’s not like anxiety or depression where you go to the GP and it’s all dealt with in the community.

It requires events that trigger referral to a psychiatrist. It requires an in-depth assessment process, drawing upon s range of evidence that meet very clearly defined criteria. Those criteria include that it must be a consistent and longstanding feature in their life, and have significant negative effects on their self and interpersonal relationships.

It’s not a minor issue. It’s not a diagnosis that is made lightly. It is not being judgemental or discriminatory to question whether someone who an independent and highly qualified psychiatrist has diagnosed with Anti-social personality disorder is someone you should continue a relationship with.

Saying ‘ignore the criteria, look at his behaviour with you’ isn’t very helpful here. Not least because presenting a very much sanitised public version of themselves is one of the diagnostic criteria. Whatever it looks like in the limited time you have with them, they do fit a list of criteria that make them a potentially dangerous partner (especially to someone with a history of abusive relationships).

I mean look at the diagnostic criteria for this disorder. This is not someone who is likely to succeed in a healthy relationship:

A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):

a. Identity: Ego-centrism; self-esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.

b. Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification; absence of prosocial internal standards associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.

AND

1. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):

a. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others; lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.

b. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion; use of dominance or intimidation to control others.

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domains:

1. Antagonism, characterized by:

a. Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one’s ends.

b. Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentation of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events.

c. Callousness: Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one’s actions on others; aggression; sadism.

d. Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful behavior.

1. Disinhibition, characterized by:

a. Irresponsibility: Disregard for – and failure to honor – financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect for – and lack of follow through on – agreements and promises.

b. Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans.

c. Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom; lack of concern for one’s limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger

C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.

D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual’s developmental stage or socio- cultural environment.

E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).

F. The individual is at least age 18 years.

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate every one of them, but I have to think about them. I am feeling a bit like there is too much to process at the moment.
I want to address the questions that were asked, and hope I didn’t miss any.
Just to clarify: I only mentioned the job because work/ bills/ money management doesn’t seem to be an issue.
Yes, I very much dislike the way he treats work and the people there. I know his job is about profit (the poster who mentioned business roles was spot on), but there is no need to be disrespectful to others.
Yes I would describe myself as agreeable and empathetic, and I usually try to see things from other perspectives.
I did attend counselling after I left the toxic relationship. It had really destroyed so much of me but it was very different to my current relationship. I had totally enabled my ex, who suffered from mental illness and substance abuse, and who had been absolutely controlling and manipulative. I am super sensitive about this now, but I did not notice any of this behaviour from my current boyfriend. I hadn’t told him much about the old relationship until after his blow up, when I explained why this behaviour had been such a no go for me. In hindsight maybe I shouldn’t have told him, but he did seem embarrassed about it. Though he couldn’t really explain why he had exploded like that either..It doesn’t mean that I have forgotten.
The fight really had been over nothing. As I said it had been a misunderstanding, and somehow we both couldn’t see the other one’s point of view. He thought I was continuing to see other people despite us being exclusive, because he had misinterpreted something I had said. When I laughed it off (because I hadn’t done anything) he totally changed. He wasn’t abusive/ threatening, and also didn’t shout, but he was seething, quiet and just pretty cruel. I was just so confused and didn’t understand what was actually going on, and he kept going on about me being deceitful and playing games. I seriously had done no such thing. I was actually quite scared that day but I can’t say why because he didn’t swear or threaten me, he was just so angry.

He has told me how he happened to get diagnosed. (More than 15 years ago), but didn’t go into details. He did admit that he was a nightmare when younger and that he initially rejected the diagnosis but changed his mind eventually because he wants a normal life too.
Regarding my own background: I had a very good relationship with my mother but my father has been choleric and difficult since I can remember. I remember her simply ignoring him when he started screaming and stomping - God knows how she managed to stay calm.

I think I might have to revisit counselling if my head remains this muddled. Right now I am feeling a bit overwhelmed and sad, but I have a lot to process for now. Thank you all and sorry if my responses are all over the place.

I was actually quite scared that day but I can’t say why

Because people with personality disorders are terrifyingly different when their mask drops. This is how it feels when they devalue and ultimately discard you. You can't even discern the person you know and love, even when you're looking right at them, it makes your hair stand on end.

I remember her simply ignoring him when he started screaming and stomping - God knows how she managed to stay calm

This is the obvious explanation for why you'd be willing to have a relationship with someone you've seen switch between loving and cruel. You're replicating (as we all do) your parents' relationship.

If your head is muddled by a relationship, the relationship isn't good for you. It's that simple. If you can get your head round that, and face what it means, you likely won't need counselling, and your future relationships will be healthy.

A healthy relationship will feel good, and will make complete sense to you.

Don't have kids with him. It'll be harder to escape and this other side to his character wouldn't be fair on them. It'll probably increase from the stresses kids bring.

It’s learning of the diagnosis that has shaken me..I think I am currently just going back through things and am wondering if I misinterpreted everything or if I am overreacting.
It’s just a lot to take in and think about.

I don't get it op, you've already seen the mask slip - thats who he is! That's the actual him. There's even a diagnosis to prove it.

What is there to be confused about? Do you think Ted bundy was horrible all the time? Of course not! Lots of women liked him and found him pleasant company...until he battered their brains in.

OK not all psychopaths kill people of course. But the point is, this person has no basic human empathy. That's terrifying. You should be terrified!

You day when his mask slipped it scared you. A partner should never make you feel afraid op. It should be game over the second this happens.

You really need to examine why you didn't end things right there and then. Or when you found out about the diagnosis.

Are you afraid to break up with him?
Or do you for some reason, believe you are undeserving of a partner who is actually capable of falling in love?

I just don't understand op. It's as if you have read what he is black and white, seen it first hand for yourself and been told it by him and yet, you're still not getting it.

If its so difficult for you to decide to walk away from a psychopath then it suggests you really need to be cometary single right now anyway because you are at serious risk of abuse from any nasty mam, let alone a diagnosed one.

@Sh1vers

It’s learning of the diagnosis that has shaken me..I think I am currently just going back through things and am wondering if I misinterpreted everything or if I am overreacting. It’s just a lot to take in and think about.

You are under reacting.

And it's worrying that you've jumped to the victim mentality of 'have i misinterpreted or am I underreacting?'. It suggests he is already abusing you.