Can a relationship with a PD partner ever work?

[Sh1vers]

I feel silly writing this, but I am actually not sure where else to write this. Please move this to a more suitable forum if I picked the wrong one.
I'm with my boyfriend a bit more than a year, and I am having doubts, but I also think that I am the one who is unfair here :(

I recently found out that my partner has a personality disorder, and it is freaking me out. At the same time I know that I am being super judgmental and I don't want to be this person. I started googling things and everything sounds doomed, and I am just so sad about it.

Some years ago I left a very toxic and abusive relationship, and I swore never to let this happen to me again. Yet here I am, wondering about my every choice and whether to trust my judgement.

I really hope reading this won't upset anyone who suffers from a personality disorder, because it's not my intention to judge. I'm just not in a very good place myself (depression and anxiety), and I think I am wondering if this is a combination that can ever work, even though I really want it to.

I don’t know what I am not seeing here

He scared you and is horrible to people at work. What is it that you don't see?

Would you recommend to your friend/sister that she should go and find herself a man who has demonstrated that he can scare her, and who is horrible to people at his work?

It absolutely is abuse op. And it absolutely will happen again.

I suspect he told you about the personality disorder now because he thinks you are too invested to walk away and he needs to test that theory.

Emotionally healthy people would have called it a day right then and there. Now he knows you're not able to think rationally where he is concerned.

Many people who had certain dynamics in their family unit go on to have partners with similar traits.

It's like being in touch with what you know, like a safety blanket.

Narcissists and Psychopaths love to attract empathic, supportive people. Why? Because they are validating, like to see the good ones people and are often forgiving.

I suspect I may have BPD and nearly every relationship I've had has been with a very controlling and moody man. Want to guess what my Father was like?

I definitely think counselling would be a great idea.

@Sh1vers Forget about upsetting people and think about what you need in a relationship otherwise you'll end up with an abusive person again. Why does it matter what people with a PD think? They're not you.

The answer to your question is a firm NO, I wouldn't date someone with a PD no matter how sorry I might feel for them, because I don't want the negative behaviours in my life or the life of any children.

Their problems (or the problems of anyone else , whether they have PD or not) are not yours to take on.

I tried to make it work with a man with a personality disorder.

I ended up spending every moment walking on eggshells so as not to trigger his cold, emotionally abusive behaviour.

I thought I adored him, but was actually trauma bonded.

Life is too short to spend second guessing your partner and trying to avoid difficulties.

Look for someone kind and loving.

I have made an appointment with a councillor but it won’t be until the end of next week. I’m sorry but I think I just need to talk this through, I can’t just walk away.

I don’t think I need to fix him. When we met I was unemployed (thanks Covid) and he helped me with my cover letters and interview prep, and also with moving my stuff after I got a new job. So I never thought he was the one who was “the problem” here.

He gave me a key to his place, and also the pin to his phone (to manage Spotify etc) , but he has never asked the same of me. The only thing that might seem strange is he wants me to let him know when I get home after a night out. But I ask the same when he is out alone or driving a long distance.

I’m not writing this to justify anything, but I hope you can see why I am struggling to make sense of it all. I don’t think I need to fix him, but I feel awful if he was to think I didn’t want him because there is something wrong with him.
I feel better today and I will talk to him, but I want to do it in person.

What did he say led to him seeking (or being forced to seek) psychiatric evaluation and receiving his diagnosis, do you believe him, can it be corroborated? ASPD isn’t a diagnosis handed out because somebody was a wayward teenager or whatever - it’s diagnosed on the back of serious and sustained maladaptive behaviour resulting in harm and often after somebody has come into repeated contact with the criminal justice system for serious violent crimes for which they show no remorse.

The reality is that your life is almost certainly going to be much harder with him in it than without. It’s completely fine to nope out of that without feeling guilty that you’re rejecting him for having something wrong with him.

I haven’t read the entire thread but I felt I really needed to respond as I really don’t like the sound of this @Sh1vers

I actually left that day and was really shaken for days, and he eventually apologised and seemed pretty ashamed

Key word: eventually. It’s just too much of a red flag in my opinion

The key is a red herring.

It gives him a reason to be able to communicate with you after the "end" of a relationship.
There will always be a final conversation to be had.
As you are probably over conciencious you would want to return it.
It is a symbol of trust (of course, you are trustworthy but it's a grand gesture...)
"look how I trust you"
Similar with the pin to his phone.

And it has worked because you are now thinking of them as evidence that he is not a "bad" person.

As someone who knows these type of people, this was a flag to me straight away.
When you know how they think and operate you can see the "envelope messaging".

Everything they do has a point to it.

OP, you are struggling to understand that he is not the person you see at the weekends. He is the person that terrified you the day the argument happened. The one that manipulated and bullies his colleagues. The one that lies. I think that's what you are struggling with, you almost seem unable to believe that that IS exactly the person who he is. And you will start seeing more and more of that. You mentioned his diagnosis. Do you believe what he said or was he lying to you? Read up on the diagnostic criteria (as PPs already highlighted!!) and then you will understand how extreme and utterly damaging his behaviour had to be to receive the diagnosis. It's not handed out lightly.

This is part of a testimony of someone with ASPD: "When around people, regardless of our relationship I always have to wear a mask and it’s fucking exhausting."

OP, bless your heart. I mean that with all the kindness and empathy in the World. I get you want to see the good but for the love of God, don't be naive. Wishing you all the best

How do you think he got the diagnosis, OP? Do you think it was by demonstrating that he is the man you think he is? The man he shows to you?

Op do you have any idea what triggered his diagnosis? Previous posters are rightly saying that an event or events will have lead to this.

Please consider contacting the police and requesting any information pertaining to Claire’s law.

There are many people with undiagnosed aspd living in marriages. I have no idea how happy their partners are but not all psychopaths are murderous. There will always be something majorly significant missing from your relationship at best though.

I’m glad that you are seeking counselling. I hope you find your answers.

Personally, I would leave the personality disorder diagnosis out of it. PDs are always on a spectrum, and different people will possess different combinations of traits. There is no 'one size fits all'.

How does he make you feel, OP? Do you feel consistently safe, loved and respected? If the answer is no, then this is not the relationship for you.

I think you need to do some digging to find out the circumstances of the diagnosis and the events that led up to it. At the very least you need an in-depth honest conversation with him about who he truly is.

"He is stable and independent, so I never thought there’d be a “real” problem underneath the surface"

It looks to me that because he is not the same blueprint as your previous, abusive, toxic ex you thought he was a healthy, sensible option and this in turn showed how much you had grown and changed and recovered from your last relationship, and this has been something you've held tight to this last year.

So for your current partner to be bad for you you have to not be as wise and healed as you thought you were (in your mind). So you're really struggling to see the problems because they look different and what about all the good stuff and you don't want to be in an unhealthy relationship again because what does that say about you?

The combination of you and him will be so so damaging for you OP. The dynamics of this are setting you up for so much hurt and it's unfair on him to have to navigate how to be the partner someone like you (kind, empathetic, previous abuse, a bit lacking in self-conviction) needs as it will be exhausting for him and fundamentally a facade. Your authentic selves are not compatible. He will scare you again (expecting him not to is unrealistic and unreasonable given his diagnosis) and you need and deserve to be in a relationship, and to have a life without fear.

It's frog/scorpion territory. It will reflect well on you to walk away knowing what you know, it's best for both of you. Don't give the scorpion a lift - it doesn't end well for anybody.

I think you've had a lot of good helpful responses above.

I also wondered, you only talk about you being with your partner, and him talking about interacting with work colleagues. There is no mention of the two of you spending time with friends (or family) and how that goes. If you are spending all your time together alone without others, you won't see all sides of your partner, or hear others' opinions of him. If he is resistant to spending time with others, that is important to know too. Through lockdowns etc it's been easy to have quite isolated relationships but for one to work full time long term, I think it's important that you can both enjoy socialising and connecting with others at least to some extent. You sound like a nice person OP and it would be a shame to have a relationship that limited you from enjoying mingling with wider networks of people and all the benefits that can bring.

As PP have said, it would have been something significant for him to get this diagnosis.

It's a difficult thing to get your head around that they do not see the world the same as you would in humanity and life.

How do you feel about being with someone who sees you as someone to exploit and be deceitful to?

Does he have any exs?

I also think doing a complete background check on him would be wise.

Usually only at the expense of your sanity, your finances, your heart and your soul.

A healthy relationship will feel good, and will make complete sense to you.
This and ,
will never make you feel afraid
And
You are not put on this earth to heal others, a relationship is supposed to be a job but lightness and fun

It took me 33 years to learn and. Finally believe all the above so take your time and take a deep breath honey . I’m sure you will feel a lot of relief after

I have met his brother (who is lovely) and some of his friends, some of who he works with. One of them even asks him to help out minding her little daughter at times when they get stuck, which he describes as hell on earth. He seems very good with people he likes but spends a lot of time on his own (with his dog) which he describes as “recharging his batteries after being around people”. I understand what he means by that because I know the feeling. He’s been fine with my friends that he has met, and they all liked him. So I think he struggles with people and finds them exhausting but he’s good to the ones he “let in”. He is also still good friends with his ex who he was with for a long time.

I have some limited information on his pre-diagnosis time but this came from him. He did say that his brother witnessed a lot of his behaviour and that he suffered as a result, but the brothers haven’t really discussed this in front of me. I think I could ask him but I’d rather not go behind his back and speak to my boyfriend first. By his own accord he was violent and involved in a lot of illegal activity, into which he has been introduced by his own parents. He has no engagement with one parent, and very little with the second one and seems totally detached when speaking about them. He likes his brother though and gets fiercely protective over him.
He did share details on one particular attack which got him into trouble, which was quite disturbing on the surface, but so did the circumstances leading up to it. I guess I could ask his brother.
I had never heard of Clare’s law, that is a good idea. He lived abroad for years though, so would any offences reported in another county be on file in the UK?
I don’t feel unsafe or uneasy around him. He makes me laugh and I enjoy being with him. That’s why I am so torn right now, nothing really fits.
I think the poster who mentioned me doubting myself and my “recovery” made a good point. I let me guard down but i think now it went up a bit. Since I do get intermittent bouts of anxiety I am never sure if I am overreacting or not. I’m really glad I made the appointment, and I will speak to him too. I have avoided this for too long and I need to know.

Since I do get intermittent bouts of anxiety I am never sure if I am overreacting or not

Who gets to make the final decision about whether you've over reacted about something, @Sh1vers?

Have you read the book "the gift of fear" OP?
I got it on audible and really recommend it.

What you said about over reacting... We can question ourselves and over ride signals that might save our lives.

A list of the indicators.

Forced Teaming. This is when a person implies that they have something in common with their chosen victim, acting as if they have a shared predicament when that isn't really true. Speaking in "we" terms is a mark of this, i.e. "We don't need to talk outside... Let's go in."

Charm and Niceness. This is being polite and friendly to a chosen victim in order to manipulate him or her by disarming their mistrust.

Too many details. If a person is lying they will add excessive details to make themselves sound more credible to their chosen victim.

Typecasting. An insult is used to get a chosen victim who would otherwise ignore one to engage in conversation to counteract the insult. For example: "Oh, I bet you're too stuck-up to talk to a guy like me." The tendency is for the chosen victim to want to prove the insult untrue.

Loan Sharking. Giving unsolicited help to the chosen victim and anticipating they'll feel obliged to extend some reciprocal openness in return.

The Unsolicited Promise. A promise to do (or not do) something when no such promise is asked for; this usually means that such a promise will be broken. For example: an unsolicited, "I promise I'll leave you alone after this," usually means the chosen victim will not be left alone. Similarly, an unsolicited "I promise I won't hurt you" usually means the person intends to hurt their chosen victim.

Discounting the Word "No". Refusing to accept rejection.

That you don’t feel unsafe around him is a red herring. People with ASPD aren’t, with a few exceptions, horror movie monsters who spend their lives deviously trying to manipulate and hurt others - that’s cinematic trope. But it’s the characteristic capacity for selfishness and ability to disregard what others need and want you need to be concerned about.

For example: he was more than happy to help you with your job stuff - but how much of that was because it was on his terms and it wasn’t competing with other priorities more important to him, and didn’t really require him to sacrifice anything? As a couple, you’ll face all kinds of periods in your lives which will pitch your needs and priorities against those of the other, situations where one of you will have to step back and support the other even whilst you also need support, events which will require self sacrifice. And you need to be able to rely on your partner to have your back at those times. Somebody who, in your own words, has already shown you selfish behaviour, that he lies easily, can easily shrug off the feelings and throw the needs of others around him (his colleagues) under the bus through manipulation and intimidation, is very capable of behaving aggressively and in a way which frightens you when he’s in situations he doesn’t like - you need to think about how somebody like that is going to behave in life’s most difficult periods like illness and bereavement and financial difficulty and work stress, not just the honeymoon stage of weekend dating.

Can you imagine a few years time: it’s 3am and you have a screaming newborn who hasn’t slept for more than an hour at a time in weeks. Will he be there with you as a team, making sure that you’re supported? Or will he fuck off and please himself, because in a battle of his needs over those of yours and a baby, his are always going to come first?

On the baby subject - do you want children? And how recently was this man’s last violent offence and contact with a range of criminal justice and psychiatric services? Because if the answer to the former is yes, and the answer to the latter is relatively recently and with ongoing contact, you’re very likely to end up on social services’ radar having your lives interrogated and parenting monitored.