How do you come to terms with the fact that the narciasist never really loved you

[JLBear12]

I am 3 months out of a relationship with someone who displayed a lot of narcissistic traits. He discarded me for another woman, how do you come to terms, in your mind, that the entire relationship with just a lie its driving me mad.

My problem was with a narcissist I expected a larger than life character full of arrogance. In the beginning I got this poor man who had been neglected as a child, life was unfair, problems with alcohol because he drank to block out how he felt inside (should have paid more attention to that one) horrible exs etc. I had zero idea covert narcissism existed x

Another time there was an important day at work with visiting dignitaries due in at midday and he gave me a brownie for my elevenses. It had weed in it.

Jesus that’s horrific!! What an absolute cunt.

There were two occasions where he tricked me into doing something illegal - like jail-time kind of illegal. First time was concealing drugs in my luggage, second was fraud, luckily the last one someone else had given me the heads up before I actually did what he had asked me to do, but I still break out in a cold sweat about me being an unwitting drug mule. Apparently that was fucking hilarious to him.

Thank goodness for the person who warned you what he was doing. Just absolutely no human decency at all.

These stories are making my ex sound quite pleasant in comparison

@JLBear12 - mine was a covert narcissist too - much harder to spot.

I was with mine for 15 years - what a waste of my best years.

He said, during our separation, that he was not committed to me whilst we lived together - the man who had asked me to move in with him, away from family & friends. What a c*nt.

So when I wanted to have children - something I'd always been clear about- he suddenly came clean about his mental health issues - getting my sympathy & support - then punished my by having affairs for daring to ask for commitment.

One of his affairs was when I was at home with an oxygen-dependant, ill baby. The lowest of the low, just sick.

There is no end to the depths of these swines.

@Drinkingallthewine

he once actually bought me a card and wrote it in the shop and then gave it me

Mine bought me sports equipment for a hobby that I never ever mentioned, nor expressed any interest in. I'm not sporty. I never, ever have been.

Oh and he used my bank card to pay for it.

@sassbott @ReadySteadyTwins
Two big ones out of all the little ones spring to mind - he kept me up until after 5am with a manufactured row and wouldn't let me go to bed until it was resolved, the night before an important interview.

Another time there was an important day at work with visiting dignitaries due in at midday and he gave me a brownie for my elevenses. It had weed in it.

There were two occasions where he tricked me into doing something illegal - like jail-time kind of illegal. First time was concealing drugs in my luggage, second was fraud, luckily the last one someone else had given me the heads up before I actually did what he had asked me to do, but I still break out in a cold sweat about me being an unwitting drug mule. Apparently that was fucking hilarious to him.

I've just read this - gosh op I don't have the words for that. That's absolutely awful. I can't imagine how that must have felt for you. I feel sick for you, thank goodness you are well rid now

I hate him, because I'll never love properly again. And I was such a loving, trusting, sparkling person. I'm a bit dead behind the eyes now.

@ReadySteadyTwins I used to feel like this. Funnily enough it took you writing it here for me to remember that I felt this way.
Give it time and be super kind to yourself. Hopefully, in time, you will start to find parts of the old you, layered in with the wiser new you.

I will live properly again. However my ‘properly’ looks different. It was wrong of me to be so naive and trusting. It takes time to get to know someone and time is what I will give the next relationship. It was wrong of me to take his words at face value, next time I will hear the words and I will watch carefully that the actions align. Trust will happen, but it will take time and I have time. I am in no rush to be with someone, meet someone. I am super content to remain single or date long term without living together. That may change when my children are independent adults and again my view is I don’t have a crystal ball so will cross that bridge when it comes.

My sparkle is returning. Because I’m surrounding myself and spending time with people who fill me up - my girlfriends. Anyone toxic has been removed.

I’m coming back to life and I’m starting to feel like the old me. Bit by bit, albeit a bit more bruised and battered but wiser.

I dunno. Maybe I got off lightly. But I don’t regret this life lesson. I was far too naive and trusting before. And since uncovering his narcissistic behaviour I have also been successful in removing a few other deeply toxic people from my life.

As I’ve written this, I’ve thought of all the people I have spent time with in the last month. Every single one has made me laugh. Made me feel better about myself. Filled me up. Been kind, understanding and supportive. Maybe therein lies the secret.

@sassbott

I hate him, because I'll never love properly again. And I was such a loving, trusting, sparkling person. I'm a bit dead behind the eyes now.

@ReadySteadyTwins I used to feel like this. Funnily enough it took you writing it here for me to remember that I felt this way.
Give it time and be super kind to yourself. Hopefully, in time, you will start to find parts of the old you, layered in with the wiser new you.

I will live properly again. However my ‘properly’ looks different. It was wrong of me to be so naive and trusting. It takes time to get to know someone and time is what I will give the next relationship. It was wrong of me to take his words at face value, next time I will hear the words and I will watch carefully that the actions align. Trust will happen, but it will take time and I have time. I am in no rush to be with someone, meet someone. I am super content to remain single or date long term without living together. That may change when my children are independent adults and again my view is I don’t have a crystal ball so will cross that bridge when it comes.

My sparkle is returning. Because I’m surrounding myself and spending time with people who fill me up - my girlfriends. Anyone toxic has been removed.

I’m coming back to life and I’m starting to feel like the old me. Bit by bit, albeit a bit more bruised and battered but wiser.

I dunno. Maybe I got off lightly. But I don’t regret this life lesson. I was far too naive and trusting before. And since uncovering his narcissistic behaviour I have also been successful in removing a few other deeply toxic people from my life.

As I’ve written this, I’ve thought of all the people I have spent time with in the last month. Every single one has made me laugh. Made me feel better about myself. Filled me up. Been kind, understanding and supportive. Maybe therein lies the secret.

How long have you been separated for? Sorry I've you've already said - it's becoming a long thread now.

I'm wondering if I got off lightly too. I'm absolutely torn apart by what he's done, I've spent days crying over the last few months but im seeing more of my life without him now.

@trixey I ended it once and for all about 4 months ago.

I’ve not spent much time crying but I did go to weekly counselling to get the right support required in staying away from him, unpicking who he is and what he was doing, and understanding why I stayed. That was hard work, a lot to digest and compute. Hurt my pride, my ego, my heart. It takes a lot of work to come to terms with the fact that for them? It was all a sham.

But bluntly? He’s one fucked up person. Deeply damaged, very empty and he will die miserable and alone. Me? I just thank the heavens I’m not him. I’m proud of myself for loving and trusting. The shame sits with him for abusing it.

I wouldn’t be him for all the tea in China.

Like @sassbott I also had counselling & if helped tremendously.

I discovered I had codependent traits, and met whilst I was vulnerable, which explained why I was ripe for exploitation by him.

And it also helped me to reframe him, who is such a "nice, smooth, charming" man on the surface - as the absolute manipulative life-drainer, without empathy, who couldn't recognise my needs, was sexually incontinent etc.

The "fault" is all on him. He is a malignant, empty soul with no integrity. God help his next victim - he has found his next victim & will suck the life out of her too.

But at the same time, my boundaries were shit. I did not protect myself enough. I went too easily with his agenda & did not assert myself enough.

But my life is immeasurably better without him now. I have great friends, a wonderful family & a successful career.

Yes I take my life lesson from it too, yes it hurts like hell but I am normal with normal human emotions so even without the fact that he was a narc, I would mourn the ending of any relationship properly. I think the other problem we face so early on is what these people are is against human nature so we cant compute it with what we know. Then you have betrayal which hurts the ego until you sit back and think omg he is going to abuse her too, we are now the ones on the outside looking in. We know what's coming for her but it's not our responsibility to save her. We know how convincing they are, she was us many years ago. Its all mass confusion in our heads for now but as many posters have put, in time it will get better for us xx

My talks with my exH as expected went into quite harassing mode. I did make a massive mistake of saying too much too him but then I think it was words that I needed to come out. Regardless of wether it hurt him or not (probably not) but I needed to say it.

But again, I feel ok. Maybe slightly set back. But ok. The reality is he wants us to get back together and he needs an answer and then he will end his relationship with new gf. But as the answer is obviously NO, he's going to carry on his relationship with her. These people are absolutely bonkers aren't they. Makes me wonder if that's what he did to me. I always thought he still had feelings for his ex and he did ghost me for a while. I wonder if in this time he was trying to get her back, she was having none of it so he stayed with me

Also just wondering, did any of you ladies have issues with basically just grabbing you whenever they felt like it? ExH would randomly walk up to me and grope me, always grabbing my boobs. Sometimes he would as if he could touch them and if I'd say no he's say 'but they're mine' or basically wouldn't take no for an answer

@trixey the new gf may not be providing adequate supply and he is also triangulating you with her, dont fall for it and do not speak to him because it will knock you back. And the boobs thing, yes he would say I love your breasts and they are mine and grab them a lot xx

Oh and make sure you get his name off the electoral register mine has just taken a phone contract out on my address xx

@JLBear12

Oh and make sure you get his name off the electoral register mine has just taken a phone contract out on my address xx

Good call, I hadn't done that! Thanks so much, I'll her it sorted.

Yeah the boob grabbing, he wouldn't be particularly gentle either. Just no respect for me as a person whatsoever

@trixey that's because unfortunately they see us as no more important than a chair, sounds silly but it's true xx

@LargeProsecco I wouldn’t be where I was had I not done the counselling. Bluntly speaking, chances are I also would have taken him back. Because he has tried a variety of means to get me to take him back. It’s only with the counsellors support that I have built the strength to not only stay away but start to rebuild.

When i started the counselling, I was heartbroken. Knew he wasn’t right for me, knew he was unhealthy and abusive yet when the counsellor asked me where I stood in terms of taking him back I honestly replied I’m 50/50%. There were probably times when I felt that 50% chance moved up to 90%. Low points when I somehow missed him.

Now? Don’t miss him one bit. The thought of seeing him/ being intimate with him fills me with revulsion. I don’t judge myself for staying with him as long as I did. I accept that was I was a victim and I accept that that I need to work on myself to try and ensure I don’t fall for another narc.

I will love again. When I’m ready. But I’ll take my time with it. Until then, I’m just going to focus on me and being beyond selfish.

@sassbott I think thats all we can do, day at a time. The woman he is with now wanted him and made a play for him and got him, maybe I should send her a thank you card 😂😂😂. My counsellor was the one who made me see what passive aggressive behaviours were, I always felt like his behaviour was childish but didnt realise it was abusive xx

[quote sassbott]@LargeProsecco I wouldn’t be where I was had I not done the counselling. Bluntly speaking, chances are I also would have taken him back. Because he has tried a variety of means to get me to take him back. It’s only with the counsellors support that I have built the strength to not only stay away but start to rebuild.

When i started the counselling, I was heartbroken. Knew he wasn’t right for me, knew he was unhealthy and abusive yet when the counsellor asked me where I stood in terms of taking him back I honestly replied I’m 50/50%. There were probably times when I felt that 50% chance moved up to 90%. Low points when I somehow missed him.

Now? Don’t miss him one bit. The thought of seeing him/ being intimate with him fills me with revulsion. I don’t judge myself for staying with him as long as I did. I accept that was I was a victim and I accept that that I need to work on myself to try and ensure I don’t fall for another narc.

I will love again. When I’m ready. But I’ll take my time with it. Until then, I’m just going to focus on me and being beyond selfish.[/quote]
That's very similar to me. I couldn't stand to be intimate with him, couldn't even stand a hug from him so that part of it is over for me. Which is good, it shows i have definitely moved on in some way.

There's just this last little part that I can't put my finger on I suppose. I am wondering if it's because he says he loves me, will change, treat me right and all that crap that I think I have to be with him. The controlling part of him is still affecting me even though I don't want to be with him.

It's because when other, normal, decent people say those things to us, they mean it.

So our brain struggles to compute that someone could do all that when all they wanted was someone to abuse.

You have to be really matter of fact. They are not capable of love. Not for you, me, anyone. It's an impossibility for them. They don't, and never did, love us. He could literally tattoo his love for me on his face. They just deliver what they think will con us best.

@trixey it could well be your brain working against you. Our brains play a key part in how hard we find separating fully from these individuals. Our brains don’t like pain (of any sort) and if we have been through enough cycles with these people, our brains are trained to essentially tell us to ‘take them back’ so that the emotional trauma stops and then we also get the incredible high from an intense reconciliation. We just need to understand that this is happening and reprogram our brains.

It’s not coincidence that our brains inflict us with memories of the happy, good, loving times. It’s also why complete no contact is so critical. Because as they retain contact, it doesn’t help our brains to process and move on.

It’s taken me months, but in the past month I have finally drawn a line and enforced no contact, with no gray areas remaining.

"I have no recollection of that" was regularly trotted out. Funny how such a forgetful man could remember every little detail of personal stuff he'd manipulated out of me when he was pretending to care and use it against me when he wanted to make me feel like shit. Again.

I am sure there must be a narc handbook somewhere as they all seem to act in similar ways. I remembered today that sometimes when I was trying to discuss something with him, he would just sit there and shrug his shoulders at me xx

@JLBear12

I am sure there must be a narc handbook somewhere as they all seem to act in similar ways. I remembered today that sometimes when I was trying to discuss something with him, he would just sit there and shrug his shoulders at me xx

I think these things that we've all brought up here we just think are normal. And even people that aren't narcs are guilty of looking on their phone instead of listening to what someone's trying to say.

But add it to all the other red flags and it just fits in with all their other behaviours we experienced.

My sisters do is into his footy, absolutely loves it. There was no talking to him while he was watching a match. But hes brilliant in many other ways. A genuinely decent person.

@JLBear12

I am sure there must be a narc handbook somewhere as they all seem to act in similar ways. I remembered today that sometimes when I was trying to discuss something with him, he would just sit there and shrug his shoulders at me xx

When you think about it, so do the rest of us. For example, be kind to us, we will likely be kind to you/respectful towards you/value you highly. Be unpleasant to us, we will feel uncomfortable around you/not get close to you/create defensive behaviours around you.

We're all pre-programmed.

They're just a different species. They are pre-programmed too, but the programme is different. For example, be nice to them, and they will see an opportunity to manipulate you. Be unpleasant to them, they will drag you down. It's just different wiring. Feelings lead to different results. I found the 'they're all the same' thing really creepy, until I realised that we are too.

I found the 'they're all the same' thing really creepy, until I realised that we are too.

This is very true, even to the point of co-dependent behaviours or 'excessive niceness'/self-sacrifice. One commonality I find when I talk with other survivors of narcissistic abuse is that we often have a real blind spot when it comes to accepting the reality of the narcissist's behaviour, or a tendency to give the benefit of the doubt or second (third/fourth/twentieth) chances when people who actually have healthier thinking models will behave in ways that we would see as overly harsh.

Eg where someone with firmer boundaries might say, "That guy is a selfish dick and I can't be bothered dealing with him", we might say, "Okay, he can be thoughtless but he had a really hard upbringing so I understand and can be tolerant."

Or the narcissist will behave poorly on a regular basis but then make up vague but hard-to-completely disprove excuses afterwards, and because we don't want to be 'judgemental' or 'mean', we accept the excuse even though in the back of our mind/pit of our stomach, we feel uneasy about it.

Or we fail to consider a fairly obvious explanation for their behaviour (eg he's outright lying to me or having an affair) because we personally could not imagine ourselves behaving that way without feeling unbearable guilt. We project our own moral standards onto them because we love them and cannot accept the possibility that the person we love is so unlike us on the inside. "He says he loves me so I just can't believe he would do that."