Do parents talk to their sons?

[Theblacksheepandme]

I have read so much and have become educated more and more on what to look out for by reading the relationships threads. I pass a lot of this information to my 14 year old daughter. I hope by educating her on what to watch out for and learning about red flags it will help her for future relationships.

This made me wonder how many parents and caregivers feel it is important to talk to their boys on the importance of respecting girls and women? Teaching them what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. Asking if their friends acted inappropriately would they say something?

If parents had these discussions with their sons would it lessen the amount of toxic men in the World? Women have a genuine fear for their safety. Are teenage boys even being made aware of this?

I am not looking for an argument and I am certainly not pointing the finger at parents of boys. I am wondering what we can do as a society to change the behaviours of teenage boys?

@SportsMother

OK. If someone asked him: what values are you parents trying to instill with regard to sexual and relationship behaviours? What do you think his answer would be?

If a classmate shared intimate photos of a girl, what would he understand to be the response you expect from him? Have you checked that your expectations and what he would do are the same?

I think he would say that we expect him to be respectful of any girls he might have a relationship with or girls he mixes with in general. I think he does see girls/women as equals (which is an odd thing to say) but I notice it in him when he speaks about female characters in films/female members of his gym and who he trains with, he speaks about them the very same way he speaks about men. I notice that because I notice a lot of boys and men don't do that.

I'm pretty confident that if a classmate shared a photo like that he would tell us. We've had conversations with him and our daughter about not sharing photo's of themselves and not asking for or sharing photo's of other people

@SportsMother

I'm pretty confident that if a classmate shared a photo like that he would tell us. We've had conversations with him and our daughter about not sharing photo's of themselves and not asking for or sharing photo's of other people

Not good enough I’m afraid. My expectation is that he will speak up to the offender, immediately, when he sees that crime happening. It is a form of sexual abuse after, and letting it happen is not OK.
I recognize that isn’t easy, and that there would be push-back. But that’s what I want the parody boys to teach them- but to be OK with sexual offenses happening around them, and to recognise that the ones who do this are trash.

Thats a big ask that could result in your DS being victimised, and in my opinion, its rather unfair of you; and also possibly counter productive. Your son should not be responsible for challenging this behaviour at any cost, immediately and in person, regardless of the risk to himself, on pain of being told any other response 'isn't good enough' Imo it's quite enough to not collude and tell you or someone in authority By demanding more i think you risk them doing nothing and keeping it from you. Teens in school operate in a very different environment to the adult world, and boys need to be supported to do what they can within that. They don't need to be a living demonstration of their mother's feminist principles.

"5128gap"

"Thats a big ask that could result in your DS being victimised, and in my opinion, its rather unfair of you; and also possibly counter productive. Your son should not be responsible for challenging this behaviour at any cost, immediately and in person, regardless of the risk to himself, on pain of being told any other response 'isn't good enough' Imo it's quite enough to not collude and tell you or someone in authority By demanding more i think you risk them doing nothing and keeping it from you. Teens in school operate in a very different environment to the adult world, and boys need to be supported to do what they can within that. They don't need to be a living demonstration of their mother's feminist principles"

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

@Theblacksheepandme

"5128gap"

"Thats a big ask that could result in your DS being victimised, and in my opinion, its rather unfair of you; and also possibly counter productive. Your son should not be responsible for challenging this behaviour at any cost, immediately and in person, regardless of the risk to himself, on pain of being told any other response 'isn't good enough' Imo it's quite enough to not collude and tell you or someone in authority By demanding more i think you risk them doing nothing and keeping it from you. Teens in school operate in a very different environment to the adult world, and boys need to be supported to do what they can within that. They don't need to be a living demonstration of their mother's feminist principles"

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

We're talking about a child not a man. And telling a parent or teacher is not doing nothing, it's an appropriate response that is safer for the boy and likely a lot more effective. Do you imagine the boys ogling the picture are going to see the error of their ways when another kid lectures them on respect, or do you think its more likely they will laugh in his face?

5128gap
We're talking about a child not a man. And telling a parent or teacher is not doing nothing, it's an appropriate response that is safer for the boy and likely a lot more effective. Do you imagine the boys ogling the picture are going to see the error of their ways when another kid lectures them on respect, or do you think its more likely they will laugh in his face?

I think it depends on their age. Once these boys become teenagers I do think if it was the majority as opposed to a minority to speak out it would make a difference.

We talk to our DS about it and always have done.

I think the problem with how you've framed this is that you're not really talking about 'parents'. It's mainly mums on here so you're asking women to solve the problem of male violence, abuse and entitlement ... again.

There are massive problems in society and women are not the holders of power in a patriarchy. We can talk to our sons constantly but for real change, it has to be systemic.

Because regardless of how much we talk to our sons, we still have a justice system, a police force, a legal system, a medical system, etc, that are institutionally biased against women. We still have media that constantly and consistently push both victim blaming narratives and 'romance' films/stories/entertainment that present abusive traits as desirable. We still have an almost unfettered porn industry. We have social media companies who deliberately removed sex from the list of protected characteristics under the Equality Act so they didn't have to act on all the threats women receive online.

It's easy to say oh parents over there (in your case parents of boys but not you yourself because you don't have boys) should take responsibility for fixing this. But until everyone works together and campaigns to the institutions that have cemented this misogyny - we're not going to get anywhere.

@SportsMother

We're talking about a child not a man. And telling a parent or teacher is not doing nothing, it's an appropriate response that is safer for the boy and likely a lot more effective. Do you imagine the boys ogling the picture are going to see the error of their ways when another kid lectures them on respect, or do you think its more likely they will laugh in his face?

Because a boy being laughed at is worse than a woman’s intimate photos being made public for the purposes of male bonding.
He should do what he would want his father to do. That’s the standard that should be set for boys- not to be complicit in the moment, giving validation to sexual abusers.

Of course a boy being laughed at is not as bad as a woman being exploited. That wasn't my point. My point was that forcing school boys to challenge the behaviour is highly unlikely to achieve anything, unless the boy in question is very socially powerful or physically intimidating (more TM there!) so is not the best way to deal with the issue. There is more chance of an outcome by reporting it as the PP suggested. As for being complicit, I think you are way overestimating the importance that such boys would give to one other boys views. At best they wouldn't care, at worst they may hurt him. It's all well and good for his father to decide for himself as an adult when to take a risk for a principle, but unfair to impose that on your child when it's not even a sensible way to address the issue.

I have two DS 20 and DS2 nearly 19, they respect women completely, any woman would be totally safe in their company,.

@SportsMother

I'm pretty confident that if a classmate shared a photo like that he would tell us. We've had conversations with him and our daughter about not sharing photo's of themselves and not asking for or sharing photo's of other people

Not good enough I’m afraid. My expectation is that he will speak up to the offender, immediately, when he sees that crime happening. It is a form of sexual abuse after, and letting it happen is not OK.
I recognize that isn’t easy, and that there would be push-back. But that’s what I want the parody boys to teach them- but to be OK with sexual offenses happening around them, and to recognise that the ones who do this are trash.

I feel like no matter how I answered that question it wouldn't have been good enough for you tbh. It's a situation that's never arisen so far thankfully.

AryaStarkWolf
I feel like no matter how I answered that question it wouldn't have been good enough for you tbh. It's a situation that's never arisen so far thankfully.

Hypothetically if it did happen what would you do?

[quote headunderthewater]@greasyshoes

Why do talk like ’nice guy’.

Also, that would not work.

Men want and need admiration, respect and love from other boys/men.
They took those things as given when it comes to girls/women.[/quote]
@headunderthewater

Men want and need admiration, respect and love from other boys/men.
They took those things as given when it comes to girls/women.

That's rubbish, and only someone who never talks to men could get that so painfully backwards. Boys generally don't care what other boys think. They prioritise admiration from girls over boys.

[quote rambleonplease]@greasyshoes
*
*
If girls were to completely disconnect from boys whose behaviour was unacceptable, their behaviour would change very quickly. When boys who are unpleasant, or horrible, continue to receive attention from girls, that's validation and they continue to be horrible and unpleasant to everyone around them.

So this basically says girls are therefore responsible for the boys behaviour? Or without gender stereotyping decent kids are responsible for rude and disrespectful kids? You do realise this is victim blaming and totally takes the onus of responsibility away from the perpetrators.

I'm afraid it starts much younger than this stage anyway. There is a boy in my dd class who talks about girls bottoms, oh how much he loves them. He talks about how pretty or ugly his female teachers are. He's 7 and as of yet I very much doubt he's able to really see the implications of what he's saying and to his this is all normal. An apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I imagine the conversations and comments he hears at home. The change needs to start young and needs to start at home. Yes removing gender stereotypes would help with less of the boys will be boys and girls will be girls attitudes! [/quote]
@rambleonplease

So this basically says girls are therefore responsible for the boys behaviour? Or without gender stereotyping decent kids are responsible for rude and disrespectful kids?

No, it's saying the opposite of that, that kids should disconnect from other kids that are horrible.

I'm afraid it starts much younger than this stage anyway. There is a boy in my dd class who talks about girls bottoms, oh how much he loves them. He talks about how pretty or ugly his female teachers are. He's 7 and as of yet I very much doubt he's able to really see the implications of what he's saying and to his this is all normal.

I had older kids in mind. By bringing up a 7 year old, I think you've missed the point of the discussion. 7 year olds frequently say and do things they have absolutely no understanding of, and I seriously doubt he appreciates a woman's arse in the same way a 14 year old or adult man does.

We have lots of conversations with DS13. My DH, his step dad, is a thoroughly decent man, although the same cannot be said for his dad. I'm hoping because he only sees his dad for a few hours once a fortnight, he doesn't pick up the way he treats women. He definitely sees DH as a role model.
There have been instances at school where something has been said to one of his female friends and he has spoken out.

I'm guilty of not having read the fucking thread.
However, yes I've always made it clear with my children whether they are male or female the expectations.
My DS found out recently that something happened to DD. His concern was about her and that if someone says no it means no.
I would hope most of us who are parenting do the same in terms of consent and safety
I do also limit SM until the children are older.
It's up to me not FB if they can access it at 13.
I worry that a lot of what happens is based on SM and porn.

Yes, absolutely. DS is 18 and in a relationship. His girlfriend is likely to go to uni and is a bit more sociable than him. I've told him it's important to support her in studying and making uni plans, and being sociable, and to do his own thing to build up his prospects in the meantime.

His dad is abusive so I'm trying to talk him through positive behaviour without the comparisons. So far so good.

DD is younger, not at that stage yet but she has a better model for relationships, and men, from my DP.

@Theblacksheepandme

AryaStarkWolf I feel like no matter how I answered that question it wouldn't have been good enough for you tbh. It's a situation that's never arisen so far thankfully.

Hypothetically if it did happen what would you do?

If my son told me a classmate was sharing pictures of a girl? I'd contact the school about it

@SportsMother

I feel like no matter how I answered that question it wouldn't have been good enough for you tbh. It's a situation that's never arisen so far thankfully.

Honestly, it wasn’t meant that way, or as a set-up. I just feel sick for my daughters going out into the world.

I have a daughter as well so believe me I do understand

@greasyshoes
I think you are missing the point, I have 3 children, the middle is 7 the older a teen. I am very well aware that a 7 yr old does not appreciate an arse the way his father does ffs as I stare in my post that you have linked. But the point is it normalises objectifying women, you need to see the bigger picture and not simplify it like you did.

I just disagree that suggesting that girls not associating with boys who behave in a toxic way is the solution. Quite honestly the problems really start way way before they reach their teens.

I just disagree that suggesting that girls not associating with boys who behave in a toxic way is the solution.

Then you don't really understand the problem. Continuing to associate and socialise with a horrible person, and then complaining when you suffer the negative consequences, is not unlike repeatedly putting your hand into a fire and complaining about being burned multiple times.

@SportsMother you'd be very naive if anything I said reassured you. I wasn't trying to reassure you. In fact, although you quoted my post I wonder if you confused me with someone else.

Nothing I said was reassuring. The entire system is weighted against women. Talking to our sons, and you talking to your husband, father, brothers - is a teeny, tiny drop in the ocean.

I'm a woman and a mother and an aunt to nieces and a friend to other women. My son or husband being 'decent' and having lots of conversations around consent, responsibility, coercion, etc, has no impact on my, their, your or your DD's likelihood of meeting a man who doesn't act like that. And then being faced with a system that will victim blame and belittle them. That's the reality.

@greasyshoes

I just disagree that suggesting that girls not associating with boys who behave in a toxic way is the solution.

Then you don't really understand the problem. Continuing to associate and socialise with a horrible person, and then complaining when you suffer the negative consequences, is not unlike repeatedly putting your hand into a fire and complaining about being burned multiple times.

Ok yes disassociating with disrespectful people may well stop their behaviour or they will just look for someone else who does not disassociate with them and tolerates it. To me this is a massive simplification of a big problem in society.

Also why address the issue with girls, if they do this just walk away, don't go there. Why not expect more of boys and hold them to a higher standard BEFORE they reach this point, this comes from parents and society in general and way way before they reach their teenage years.