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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Do parents talk to their sons?

228 replies

Theblacksheepandme · 13/01/2022 15:19

I have read so much and have become educated more and more on what to look out for by reading the relationships threads. I pass a lot of this information to my 14 year old daughter. I hope by educating her on what to watch out for and learning about red flags it will help her for future relationships.

This made me wonder how many parents and caregivers feel it is important to talk to their boys on the importance of respecting girls and women? Teaching them what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. Asking if their friends acted inappropriately would they say something?

If parents had these discussions with their sons would it lessen the amount of toxic men in the World? Women have a genuine fear for their safety. Are teenage boys even being made aware of this?

I am not looking for an argument and I am certainly not pointing the finger at parents of boys. I am wondering what we can do as a society to change the behaviours of teenage boys?

OP posts:
Justtobeclear · 13/01/2022 21:37

We talk about consent, feelings, emotions and being able to express yourself in ways that are appropriate in age appropriate ways (for 5 year olds). I witnessed an abusive relationship as a child but it was the female in the relationship that was the perpetrator and the male was unable to ask for help due to the belief that it wasn’t “manly” to admit to and that there would be very little support.
I am very focused on them learning that abuse in any form to anyone is wrong and as they get older teaching them about boundaries and red flags in relationships but most importantly being able to talk about those situations without fear or shame.

DirtyDancing · 13/01/2022 21:41

Of course I do. And I can tell you my absolute role model on bringing up sons that respect woman's' rights- Judy Murray.

SportsMother · 13/01/2022 21:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Theblacksheepandme · 13/01/2022 21:56

DirtyDancing
"Of course I do. And I can tell you my absolute role model on bringing up sons that respect woman's' rights- Judy Murray"

I completely agree about Judy Murray.

OP posts:
coodawoodashooda · 13/01/2022 22:07

@Theblacksheepandme

DirtyDancing "Of course I do. And I can tell you my absolute role model on bringing up sons that respect woman's' rights- Judy Murray"

I completely agree about Judy Murray.

Omg this is an excellent point.
Whattochoosenow · 13/01/2022 22:13

I’ve told mine (older teens) that porn is wrong - controversial as that may be. I have no regrets in saying this.
I’ve told them that the people are actors, that often the women may not be fully consenting to what is being filmed, that bodies often have had surgery, that what is depicted is often about power and control, and in general is not what a normal loving relationship is about. I’ve also told them that it can be addictive and that men who watch too much can struggle to have normal sex.
I also showed them the cup of tea analogy on YouTube.

Original poster
Theblacksheepandme · 13/01/2022 22:30

SportsMother
"Unfortunately the evidence is pretty clear that a massive chunk of parents are getting it catastrophically wrong.

Obviously some parents of boys really do explain that no girl wants to be choked or sodomised as her first sexual encounter, and that not too long ago everyone knew that men who liked choking were dangerous and fucked-in-the-head.

For you to say “how patronising” in the face of a girl being raped at school every schoolday, never ending frigid/slag taunts; the presumption of nudes in a world where a fifth of men post them on the internet is fucking outrageous.

What words do you use to describe boys that ask girls to send nudes, and the ones that then share them? Because it should include “Trash” “criminal” “evil” “contempt” and “well his parents will want to know”

Very well said thank you.

OP posts:
timestheyarechanging · 13/01/2022 23:15

Yes of course as does his school. He's almost 17, doing A levels and has had lessons/talks on consent.

VioletLemon · 14/01/2022 00:03

Something that is often overlooked is educating young adult sons on rape awareness. They are often victims of rape and do not speak up, suffering trauma for years. Its easy to not think about that but the figures stack up. Don't assume it won't happen because your son is straight and don't assume he isn't gay. Rape drugs and spiking drinks is out there.

greasyshoes · 14/01/2022 00:15

I am not looking for an argument and I am certainly not pointing the finger at parents of boys. I am wondering what we can do as a society to change the behaviours of teenage boys?

This one is simple. The highest form of validation for men, and boys, is admiration and endorsement from the other sex. Boys who are liked by girls are placed at the top of the social hierarchy. Those who are not liked go at the bottom.

If girls were to completely disconnect from boys whose behaviour was unacceptable, their behaviour would change very quickly. When boys who are unpleasant, or horrible, continue to receive attention from girls, that's validation and they continue to be horrible and unpleasant to everyone around them.

I knew a guy from school who was certainly among the most rude and obnoxious people I've ever met. He cared about no one but himself and he was horrible to so many different people. But in his favour, he was conventionally good-looking. So of course, he got lots of attention from the other sex. And of course, he never changed.

So all I'm saying here is... if girls continue to mix, interact, and socialise with boys who are horrible, then they will continue to be horrible. The easiest way to get them to change would be for girls to completely disconnect from them in every way possible.

Ionlydomassiveones · 14/01/2022 00:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Enough4me · 14/01/2022 00:27

@greasyshoes why is it the girls fault?
Shouldn't the boys all walk away from horrible boys and parents teach them that actions have consequences?

Ionlydomassiveones · 14/01/2022 00:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

greasyshoes · 14/01/2022 00:31

why is it the girls fault?

It isn't. No one suggested otherwise.

Shouldn't the boys all walk away from horrible boys and parents teach them that actions have consequences?

The boys are the problem to begin with. That's who we're talking about changing.

Teenage boys do not care what adults think.

JustLyra · 14/01/2022 00:34

So all I'm saying here is... if girls continue to mix, interact, and socialise with boys who are horrible, then they will continue to be horrible. The easiest way to get them to change would be for girls to completely disconnect from them in every way possible.

I partly agree. I do think boys and men would change if girls and women didn’t accept their behaviour.

The problem is that girls are taught/trained to accept bad behaviour against them from a very young age. They are badgered to give hugs/kisses when they don’t want to, pushed to “share” far more than boys, and trained to ignore the “boys will be boys” style of behaviour.

Girls and women who are vocal about men are often labelled OTT or even hysterical.

So girls and women not accepting the behaviour of men would help, but that needs a change to make it socially acceptable for them to stand against behaviour.

I think other men are more the key. If they didn’t laugh or agree with their mate when he speaks about not paying maintenance because she’d “just spend it on her hair” or find it acceptable when their mate is “persistent” chatting up a woman in the pub, or worse has sex with someone they all saw was very drunk then men would stop bragging about it, and in time stop doing it when they realised it was costing them friends.

I think that would be a quicker and more effective change.

RantyAunty · 14/01/2022 01:18

I really like the book
To Raise a Boy by Emma Brown

5128gap · 14/01/2022 07:17

@greasyshoes

why is it the girls fault?

It isn't. No one suggested otherwise.

Shouldn't the boys all walk away from horrible boys and parents teach them that actions have consequences?

The boys are the problem to begin with. That's who we're talking about changing.

Teenage boys do not care what adults think.

Boys will not walk away. Toxic masculinity is highly rewarded by both boys and girls. The most popular boy in school is not the boy who goes around talking about how girls should be respected. He is the one who is the loudest, most 'laddish', tough, sexually predatory, with the prettiest girlfriend and the crowd of male hangers on. Most boys either want to be part of that or are too intimidated to challenge it.
whowhywhenwhat · 14/01/2022 07:30

Boys will not walk away. Toxic masculinity is highly rewarded by both boys and girls. The most popular boy in school is not the boy who goes around talking about how girls should be respected. He is the one who is the loudest, most 'laddish', tough, sexually predatory, with the prettiest girlfriend and the crowd of male hangers on. Most boys either want to be part of that or are too intimidated to challenge it.

I think creating a kind of humour which ridicules some of the more ridiculous laddish behaviour and suggestions helps. My son laughed when I said, 'You can't go around just launching yourself at girls!' when he complained his friend was trying to tell him he should 'make a move,' on a girl or joking about his lack of 'experience'. From there a more serious discussion can arise.

Original poster
Theblacksheepandme · 14/01/2022 07:38

8gap
"Boys will not walk away. Toxic masculinity is highly rewarded by both boys and girls. The most popular boy in school is not the boy who goes around talking about how girls should be respected. He is the one who is the loudest, most 'laddish', tough, sexually predatory, with the prettiest girlfriend and the crowd of male hangers on. Most boys either want to be part of that or are too intimidated to challenge it"

I agree with you there. There are boys like this in my daughters school. It makes the girls popular to be admired by these boys which a lot of impressionable teen girls want to be. This is why the girls like them. My daughter doesn't engage with these type of boys and they wouldn't look twice at her in her words. I really would love to know if I had a son like this would I notice?

OP posts:
Original poster
Theblacksheepandme · 14/01/2022 07:44

Sorry 5128gap not 8gap

OP posts:
steppemum · 14/01/2022 07:47

@greasyshoes

I am not looking for an argument and I am certainly not pointing the finger at parents of boys. I am wondering what we can do as a society to change the behaviours of teenage boys?

This one is simple. The highest form of validation for men, and boys, is admiration and endorsement from the other sex. Boys who are liked by girls are placed at the top of the social hierarchy. Those who are not liked go at the bottom.

If girls were to completely disconnect from boys whose behaviour was unacceptable, their behaviour would change very quickly. When boys who are unpleasant, or horrible, continue to receive attention from girls, that's validation and they continue to be horrible and unpleasant to everyone around them.

I knew a guy from school who was certainly among the most rude and obnoxious people I've ever met. He cared about no one but himself and he was horrible to so many different people. But in his favour, he was conventionally good-looking. So of course, he got lots of attention from the other sex. And of course, he never changed.

So all I'm saying here is... if girls continue to mix, interact, and socialise with boys who are horrible, then they will continue to be horrible. The easiest way to get them to change would be for girls to completely disconnect from them in every way possible.

I can see your point.

But what you have said is basically it is up to the girls to stop the boys from behaving badly.

Victim blaming.
Like the app that women need to all use when we walk home alone apparently.

steppemum · 14/01/2022 07:48

OP the whole premis of this thread is pretty patronising and I can understand why people have objected.

But above everything please

LEARN HOW TO BLOODY QUOTE

your posts are SO confusing as you don't quote, or use bold or even quotation marks.

Original poster
Theblacksheepandme · 14/01/2022 08:05

steppemum
"OP the whole premis of this thread is pretty patronising and I can understand why people have objected.

But above everything please

LEARN HOW TO BLOODY QUOTE

your posts are SO confusing as you don't quote, or use bold or even quotation mark".

I'm sorry, I thought I had started doing it after the previous confusion. I am completely new to starting to post. I struggle with a lot of things like this. Is what I have done now wrong?

OP posts:
MissyB1 · 14/01/2022 08:05

So much stereotyping as per usual on these sorts of threads. I actually think people guilty if stereotyping boys and how they are parented (like the Op does), are very much part of the problem.

anon12345678901 · 14/01/2022 08:07

I have. I speak to him about lots of things, consent, abuse, etc. I've also been very open with him about periods etc and he knows if ever he sees a girl with blood on her skirt to tell her quietly, offer his jumper and go to the medical room. I'm very open about domestic violence and that women can be the perpetrators too, so to recognise the signs and not be an abuser nor victim.