Do parents talk to their sons?

[Theblacksheepandme]

I have read so much and have become educated more and more on what to look out for by reading the relationships threads. I pass a lot of this information to my 14 year old daughter. I hope by educating her on what to watch out for and learning about red flags it will help her for future relationships.

This made me wonder how many parents and caregivers feel it is important to talk to their boys on the importance of respecting girls and women? Teaching them what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. Asking if their friends acted inappropriately would they say something?

If parents had these discussions with their sons would it lessen the amount of toxic men in the World? Women have a genuine fear for their safety. Are teenage boys even being made aware of this?

I am not looking for an argument and I am certainly not pointing the finger at parents of boys. I am wondering what we can do as a society to change the behaviours of teenage boys?

@greasyshoes

Why do talk like ’nice guy’.

Also, that would not work.

Men want and need admiration, respect and love from other boys/men.
They took those things as given when it comes to girls/women.

@greasyshoes

Also it’s not girls/womens responsability to heal or fix broken/toxic/abusive/raping boys/men.

@Angrymum22

And girls can be just as abusive as boys. DS is struggling with ex girlfriend who judged him by her own poor behaviour. He became fed up of being excluded from social events that she didn’t want him attending. He wasn’t happy with her escalating drug use but has been trying to support her while she tries to quit. But every time she has the opportunity she slips back into again. She is now the ex but they still spend a lot of time talking. And she still tris to control who he talks to. Hopefully he is learning lessons and is slowly extricating himself but he is too nice and has too much respect for her to block and move on. I understand but I have to tread carefully re drug abuse since I seem to be the only parent aware of the problem. Many of the parents I know whose teenagers are using wouldn’t believe me if I passed on the info. And DS may have to deal with the backlash. So for the time being I am keeping my council.

Controversial, but I could have written this too. I have two boys who were brought up in a feminist household by female same-sex parents. We discussed gender issues from an early age and the eldest taught us about the cup of tea consent theory when he was 14. He also got things thrown at him by a bunch of teenage girls when he defended a girl who had come out as lesbian at school.

They are both good boys who work hard - girls say they feel safe with them - but for a while we wondered if we had emasculated them when the eldest got repeatedly cheated on by a girl who professed to love him. He never said a bad word about her and has remained friends with her.

And then our youngest became embroiled in a toxic relationship with all the hallmarks of abuse. He was isolated from his friends and family by this girl, yelled at, shouted at, and emotionally and financially abused for years.

They have split up now and he has come home but he is still friends with her because he feels sorry for her.

MissyB1
"So much stereotyping as per usual on these sorts of threads. I actually think people guilty if stereotyping boys and how they are parented (like the Op does), are very much part of the problem".

I get the point at this stage MissyB1 that you don't like what I have to say.

And then our youngest became embroiled in a toxic relationship with all the hallmarks of abuse. He was isolated from his friends and family by this girl, yelled at, shouted at, and emotionally and financially abused for years.

They have split up now and he has come home but he is still friends with her because he feels sorry for her.

Hmm, yes. Neither is right is it? Don't want boys to succumb to toxic masculinity but equally don't want them to lay themselves open to abuse. Not easy is it? And not all about what parents teach. Also about what the rest of society teaches and how someone responds to it.

@Theblacksheepandme

About quoting.

You can either use the 'quote' option, at the side of each post, which reproduces the post in full, and your comment after it.

Or, copy & paste the relevant text you want to comment on and put it in bold. Using an asterisk () either side of the block of text that you have copied will make it bold*

You need to asterisk each block of text, if you are quoting a post with paragraphs.

Doing this makes it much easier to read your posts as we can see what are your points, and what you are quoting.

Also, it's usual practice to either @ users if you are tagging them or bold their name eg like this @Theblacksheepandme or this blacksheep

(Often posters shorten user names in their replies like I did).

Again it's much easier to read.

Yes, I have two sons. It can stem from watching TV shows so for example Friends where we asked them about Ross's behaviour when he was dating Rachel. We also pointed out positive relationships too.

We watched a local chap on YouTube who does walking tours of our local area explaining with photos how our area used to look etc, in a couple of videos he is just walking in a woodland area, I pointed out that as a female I wouldn't feel safe doing that. They get it. Ds1 (18) watched A Quiet Place 2 and totally got the implied sexual threat to the teenage girl in it.

Consent started young with playground games where children put their hands on the shoulders of friends and push them round the playground. We talked about implied consent ie my child doesn't have to ask if they can hug me they just do. Same with Dh and kissing me, he doesn't ask permission first.

We have talked about porn, the industry, the dangerous stuff that takes place within those situations in terms of strangulation etc. That women are not your personal playground.

They are also aware of the risks to themselves, ie they are aware of the prolific rapist in Manchester who preyed on drunk men. They are very aware of women's issues, women's rights and women's safety. We have watched films like On The Basis of Sex and others that highlight women's hard fought for rights.

I genuinely feel like I have prepared them as much as I can, Dh is also a great example of kindness and respect toward women, there are no pink/blue jobs in this house. It is about skill and ability.

This thread is too hard to read. If I click "see all" on OP's posts I have no idea which parts she is saying herself, and which are from other people. Just can't follow it at all, which is a shame as it could have been an interesting discussion (if people engage with and pick up on different opinions rather than just defending their own).
Maybe read up on how to do it and start a new thread OP?

@Angrymum22

And girls can be just as abusive as boys. DS is struggling with ex girlfriend who judged him by her own poor behaviour. He became fed up of being excluded from social events that she didn’t want him attending. He wasn’t happy with her escalating drug use but has been trying to support her while she tries to quit. But every time she has the opportunity she slips back into again. She is now the ex but they still spend a lot of time talking. And she still tris to control who he talks to. Hopefully he is learning lessons and is slowly extricating himself but he is too nice and has too much respect for her to block and move on. I understand but I have to tread carefully re drug abuse since I seem to be the only parent aware of the problem. Many of the parents I know whose teenagers are using wouldn’t believe me if I passed on the info. And DS may have to deal with the backlash. So for the time being I am keeping my council.

Nearly every wioman I know has had at least one nightmare boyfriend at some point who was emotionally abusive or worse. All the blokes I know sound like they had lovely ex girlfriends. I genuinely believe (and the statistics show) that in relationships 9 times out of 10 it's the bloke that's the bad guy. As a mum of daughters and a son I worry far more about my daughters getting involved with a dodgy bloke than I do my son getting involved with the wrong woman.

If you replaced all the misandry on this thread with misogyny there would be all out horror.

When our son got involved with 'the wrong woman' as you put it - it was the most distressing thong we have ever gone through. We felt powerless. He became a frightened little boy who was virtually anorexic and at times suicidal - it was awful. We went through absolute hell. I expected the police at our door every day.

He has now left her, has come home and is recovering, eating healthily again and working hard. Girls can be cruel in other ways.

I'm interested in the statistics you mention though that 9 times out if 10 it's the male who is the baddy in a relationship. I guess it depends how those figures are concluded - who are the participants in the research and what methodology was used to reach that finding.

My son is 17 and yes I do

What do you say to him?

Well, we're pretty close and we speak about most things, he tells me about his friends and if they have girlfriends/stuff that happens in school and I'll work it into the conversation. I don't sit him down and lecture him or anything. This news story going on here in Ireland atm as well where that young woman was murdered while on a run is another opportunity to open up conversations with him and with my daughter too

@greasyshoes

I am not looking for an argument and I am certainly not pointing the finger at parents of boys. I am wondering what we can do as a society to change the behaviours of teenage boys?

This one is simple. The highest form of validation for men, and boys, is admiration and endorsement from the other sex. Boys who are liked by girls are placed at the top of the social hierarchy. Those who are not liked go at the bottom.

If girls were to completely disconnect from boys whose behaviour was unacceptable, their behaviour would change very quickly. When boys who are unpleasant, or horrible, continue to receive attention from girls, that's validation and they continue to be horrible and unpleasant to everyone around them.

I knew a guy from school who was certainly among the most rude and obnoxious people I've ever met. He cared about no one but himself and he was horrible to so many different people. But in his favour, he was conventionally good-looking. So of course, he got lots of attention from the other sex. And of course, he never changed.

So all I'm saying here is... if girls continue to mix, interact, and socialise with boys who are horrible, then they will continue to be horrible. The easiest way to get them to change would be for girls to completely disconnect from them in every way possible.

I don't agree. Both men and women treat others well when they have been treated well themselves and taught empathy, self control, etc. It has to come from within.

Consider men who mirror and lovebomb and manipulate women first - using what they have learned about how to appeal to women - then become abusive, gaslighting, controlling, dangerous - doesn't solve the problem

Aside from things mentioned by other posters, I try and reframe the whole being 'strong' in a more positive manner. You'll be strong so you need to be careful you don't hurt or frighten others. You're strong so try and help etc. (This is overly simplified, but that's the gist of it).

I mean boys will notice they're stronger than girls, my 7yo already has more grip strength than my 65yo mum and can lift heavy stuff more easily as long as it's not for long!

Also, when discussing toxicity in relationships, surely you say that some behaviours are unacceptable no matter who does them. Sure this needs discussing so mentioning that men can be abused as well and there's no shame in asking for help.

Or that their size can be intimidating regardless of what their intentions are- this was actually brought up by the fact he completely towers over his (male) BF and gets into the poor kids face and personal space and it's not acceptable.

Kid's

As a mum to sons, absolutely I talk to them and have done at every step of the way as they have grown up.

We have spoken about bullying.
About what to if someone is being bullied.
About personal space and being able to enforce your own and respect when others do the same. How to say no and how to hear no.
About the implications of misuse of social media and how being abusive/ disrespectful can absolutely derail your life now and in the future ( I cite live examples in the press about a high profile figure has lost their job over previously unseen tweets etc).
I have made it clear how I would feel if I ever saw any of them using inappropriate language.
They have watched the tea/ consent video with me and we have discussed it.
I have spoken about the importance of safe sex and the non negotiable of using condoms (to protect not just them but their partners also).
I have discussed the role of language and expectations in society as pertains to minorities/ females etc and how it can show skewed thought patterns.
We discuss red flags and how to spot them in another individual.

The world is moving at such pace, these conversations will evolve. No parent is perfect, but all the males in my sons friendships groups are good, respectful kids. And I have had wider conversations with all of them about a variety of topics.

There are no guarantees about anything. And I would also hope that parents of girls are having equally robust conversations with them. Toxicity is not the sole domain of males.

So all I'm saying here is... if girls continue to mix, interact, and socialise with boys who are horrible, then they will continue to be horrible. The easiest way to get them to change would be for girls to completely disconnect from them in every way possible.

Or you could say that if boys stopped being horrible to girls, then girls who come from backgrounds with poor boundaries would stop accepting bad behaviour.

EarringsandLipstick
Thanks for that. As I said I am new to this. I have lurked and read threads for a long time and finally decided to contribute and ask for advice. I apologise to everyone for causing so much confusion.

SportsMother

OK. If someone asked him: what values are you parents trying to instill with regard to sexual and relationship behaviours? What do you think his answer would be?

If a classmate shared intimate photos of a girl, what would he understand to be the response you expect from him? Have you checked that your expectations and what he would do are the same?

Great questions to ask.

@greasyshoes
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If girls were to completely disconnect from boys whose behaviour was unacceptable, their behaviour would change very quickly. When boys who are unpleasant, or horrible, continue to receive attention from girls, that's validation and they continue to be horrible and unpleasant to everyone around them.

So this basically says girls are therefore responsible for the boys behaviour? Or without gender stereotyping decent kids are responsible for rude and disrespectful kids? You do realise this is victim blaming and totally takes the onus of responsibility away from the perpetrators.

I'm afraid it starts much younger than this stage anyway. There is a boy in my dd class who talks about girls bottoms, oh how much he loves them. He talks about how pretty or ugly his female teachers are. He's 7 and as of yet I very much doubt he's able to really see the implications of what he's saying and to his this is all normal. An apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I imagine the conversations and comments he hears at home. The change needs to start young and needs to start at home. Yes removing gender stereotypes would help with less of the boys will be boys and girls will be girls attitudes!