Emotional affair?

[Tic221]

Just a bit of advice really.
I'm at work and thinking about something I saw last night on DH ipad.

Our marriage hasn't been great and lockdown has made it worse.
I was actually considering if we should continue. Nothing particularly bad but I feel we have grown apart too much.

Anyway last night I couldn't sleep so went downstairs at 1am and DH had left his ipad on the kitchen table.
Opened it (innocently) to browse MN and came across imessages.

In a nutshell he has been speaking to a woman for 6 months.
Hours and hours every day.
Mainly evening time as I go to bed early to be up for work at 4am.

From what I can gather, they know eachother through work but don't work directly together.
I've had a look at her Facebook and I don't recognise her. It would seem she is in a relationship too. He has never mentioned her either.

Last night they sent over 100 messages.
Pretty mundane stuff really
New year plans, work, TV etc.

They've sent photos nothing sexual but there are a lot.

They are quite suggestive on a few but not very direct.
Like she mentions his tight jeans on his photo.
He mentions her dress but with a winky face and says it made him feel flustered.

They have not once mentioned me or her apparent partner
But have mentioned I'm passing.
She has one toddler
We have 3 older dc

I'm not sure what to make of it.
They clearly fancy eachother with the photo comments etc
But it isn't sexual and not like they're discussing the lows of their current relationships.
It almost seems friendly but with a subtle undertone.

For me that for 6 months they have messaged eachother every day.
Including Christmas
And speak for hours.

Is this an emotional affair? Or just an unhealthy friendship?

I totally get how you feel OP. 5 years ago I found a ton of poems/songs my H had written about someone who worked for us- ( 21 as opposed to his 40) he had also recorded these ditties onto cd with him singing them. He had lots of work trips with this person too. It had happened 10 years previous over a period of many months and he went to great lengths to stress to me that it was just a crush/fantasy and she wouldn’t have known and nothing physical happened—(and that I don’t know and can’t prove) you know what, it made no difference to me if it had been physical , the fact he sat and spent time writing such stuff about someone else etc was for me heartbreaking as we always had a very close marriage . We didn’t split, but I’ve never in all honesty felt 100% the same and I think you should be prepared for that feeling of not quite feeling the same about someone who gets off on secretive flirty close friendships behind your back , even if that’s all it is. He knows full well he has overstepped the mark

I understand how you feel. I found similar flirty messages on my DH phone about 5 years ago, he was being cagey with phone etc., it was quite obvious. There was no messages that confirmed anything sexual, but he was working away at the time. He denied anything was going on. I also discovered around the same time that he had Viagra but he was not using it with me! Again, he denied anything. Fast forward 5 years, our marriage has been sexless, and I don’t trust him. And I’m only now finding the strength to leave him.
What I’m saying is that finding messages like this just destroys any trust you have. Of course your future depends on whether you and DH can work it out, but I would say trust your gut instinct. I wish I had done back then. Good luck.

I’m now thinking things haven’t been good because he is mentally somewhere else.

Yes, Tic. He has been absent. Your H has been investing his emotional energy, time and attention in this OW. He has created distance between you to justify himself and to make room for her. They are clearly building intimacy and share an attraction, and the messages don’t have to be overtly sexual to constitute infidelity/disloyalty. This is an affair.

If he had issues, he could have brought them to the table to work on them with you. He could have suggested couples counseling or ended the marriage in an ethical manner. Instead he has chosen to pursue illicit ego validation with OW. Their exchanging 100 messages in one night suggests an escalation.

Gather your thoughts and confront him. He can downplay till the cows come home, but what matters are your boundaries, and you don’t have to tolerate his trampling them. In your shoes, I would inform him that you aren’t prepared to accept this disrespect and are reconsidering the marriage.

@tarasmalatarocks

I totally get how you feel OP. 5 years ago I found a ton of poems/songs my H had written about someone who worked for us- ( 21 as opposed to his 40) he had also recorded these ditties onto cd with him singing them. He had lots of work trips with this person too. It had happened 10 years previous over a period of many months and he went to great lengths to stress to me that it was just a crush/fantasy and she wouldn’t have known and nothing physical happened—(and that I don’t know and can’t prove) you know what, it made no difference to me if it had been physical , the fact he sat and spent time writing such stuff about someone else etc was for me heartbreaking as we always had a very close marriage . We didn’t split, but I’ve never in all honesty felt 100% the same and I think you should be prepared for that feeling of not quite feeling the same about someone who gets off on secretive flirty close friendships behind your back , even if that’s all it is. He knows full well he has overstepped the mark

That’s so sad

I’ve been there, where you are atm, and it’s horrible. I spent a lot of time on MN relationship threads back then and one of the books recommended was “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass. I would add the caveat that this book does lose its way towards the end (and it’s definitely not for everyone) but much of the first half/two thirds is very relevant about how damaging such close relationships outside a marriage are. I’m not at all a “you can’t possibly have friends of the opposite sex” person but when they become the primary in the relationship instead of you, it’s time to take stock.

Unfortunately my ex had passed the point of “just friends” and ended up in a full blown affair - well relationship really as it lasted for 3 years - so I wish you luck and do seek support from your family or friends.

Sorry, forgot to add, that the reason for suggesting you read the book is that I found it very hard to articulate why I found something that, on the surface at least, was very innocent, I was so uncomfortable with it. 100% engagement with someone else, yet selective deafness with me!

Oh dear. It's definitely not innocent. So far, nobody has crossed the line, but both of them are dancing around it - it may take another 100 messages but each one is pushing at their morals and loosening them both up to move them towards the inevitable affair. With every comment on a photo etc, they are pushing each other a little further - it's like a game of dare.

Read Shirley Glass - if one of them suddenly went 'fancy a shag' the other would be horrified ('I'm married', 'I'm not that sort of person'). However, this is like the boiling frog analogy - and by the time they have arranged a meet up, falling into bed will be just another little step...

I had a whole thread covering this situation. I got into a long term messenger chat with an attractive work colleague. Our chats never became sexual or even flirty in the way it sounds like your husband has. Once our messaging started lasting late into the evening and into bed time I sooner understood that something unacceptable was happening and it would wreck my marriage if I didn't stop.
It sounds like either your husband hasn't recognised the danger his marriage is in because of his behaviour, or more likely he doesn't care and wants it to progress to a physical affair.

A lot of people focus on physical affairs instead of emotional ones. Like the act of sleeping with someone is worse than being emotionally invested in someone else. I know some people will feel sleeping with someone is worse, but for me I think if someone else was taking all of my partners attention, I'd wonder what the point of our relationship was. You have to do what's right for you and your kids, if this feels hurtful and unacceptable to you then it absolutely is. It doesn't matter what the definition of this relationship is, if it's hurting or upsetting you, then THAT is the issue. And if your husband doesn't stop it if you ask him to, then therein lies your answer as to where his loyalties lie. I really feel for you OP, I've been there with the physical and non physical affairs from a partner, it's hard no matter what the situation

My DH had a fledgling EA last year with an ex he had had no contact with for 30+ yrs. To be Farr to her DH has no reference to his marital status on fb and rarely posts anything.
Anyway the first thing I did was message her to make it crystal clear that he was still married. He had done all the fluting but she had not deflected any of it. She certainly wasn’t happy that I had screenshot everything, I didn’t but she doesn’t know that. Her reply was passive aggressive and actually blaming me. I have never met her and we have no mutual connection.
DH came clean and accepted he’d f@cked up. We have had to work on it but our relationship is back on track.
As for the”ex” she’s gone batshit stalker and most the plot. So much for her apparent innocence, and I cannot forgive her since she didn’t apologise for stepping on my toes. I’m afraid if I had made the mistake of not checking someone’s marital status the first thing I would have done was apologise when called out.
In light of the batshit craziness DH has definitely learnt his lesson. Let sleeping dogs lie is the phrase that springs to mind.

Flirting not fluting🤣

Thank you everyone

It is nice to hear opinions because I really felt like I was being over the top and wasn't sure how to feel.

He went for a run earlier and left the ipad in the kitchen again
He is either stupid, naive or thinks I could never not trust him. Anyway.

I read the messages with leas shock tonight.
A couple stuck out.

About 7 weeks ago he had his covid booster and was actually quite unwell after.
I took our boys to football usually his thing and made him go to bed
Took him cups of tea up and paracetamol etc.
Anyway later that night he text her saying he felt rough after the booster.
She replied " oh no, my brother was the same. Have some paracetamol and go to bed"
His response
Yes I'm resting and have had some paracetamol.
Thank you for caring, it is really nice to actually have someone care.

What the fucking hell.
I think me taking up said paracetamol, drinks etc was caring but he can shove it up his arse from now on. This has made me so angry.

Another one.
They were talking just general chit chat.
He mentioned her new profile picture on Facebook and put the winky emoji and said he was going to have trouble going to sleep that night thinking about her and she said I feel the same about you.
Anyway long story short it sounds like they were going to relieve themselves but they didn't say that in so many words.
So yeah.
I can't believe I've not seen this coming
I just thought it had gone stale and we were having a bit of a flat patch.

If he’s spending hours speaking to her,n then it sounds more than just a platonic relationship. If it were above board, he would mention you, and you would know about her. The fact that he avoids mentioning your everyday life is telling.

I agree he has checked out, hence life for you has been flat. If nothing physical has happened, then he’ll justify it as ‘just good friends’. Many people are unaware of the emotional affair concept.

Just read your update - you’ve given a perfect example!

Very hurtful. And sly.

Have you checked phone log for voice or video calls?

it is really nice to actually have someone care
He's lying to her. He tells her your relationship is dead in the water, you never have sex etc, you don't care about him. Making him sound free to move on.

Yes nothing there
It seems very text based.
And I don't think he would delete call logs if he is leaving pictures and messages.

@StopStartStop
I agree but I've read all the messages and he doesn't see her at work and he makes no mention to me or the marriage at all.
It is so odd

@WanderingLost167

As someone who had an emotional and then physical affair, this head turned idea is a bit of red herring. You have to be willing to cross that line into an emotional and/or physical attachment to someone, and that happens when you FEEL like you aren't getting that from your relationship. This isn't about blame on the other spouse, but it's about perspective. Her interactions with him give him something he needs.

Its why I'm always wary of people who cheat and then declare they will be faithful if nothing else in the relationship changes. Affairs are often the result of issues, not just the cause

Op, this post is so much about blame, although Wandering denies it.

It is a perfect example of someone betraying the trust of their spouse and making excuses to minimise their behaviour.

You have to be willing to cross that line into an emotional and/or physical attachment to someone, and that happens when you FEEL like you aren't getting that from your relationship

Well I think op's emotional and physical attatchment has seriously gone downhill since ow came on the scene, don't you? Whose the one to sort the betrayed partner out then? or is that just a by product of two selfish people who stormed ahead without giving a fuck to other people who they are married to.

Her interactions with him give him something he needs again what about the wife's needs, any thoughts?

Can I tell you what you need, you need to know you were a seriously selfish person, along with your mm, you are still seeing one another, yet not sexual, how kind you are towards his wife.

People like you will never get it until it happens to you, but you think you are immune don't you?

You are a disloyal woman.

Op you are entitled to feel betrayed but you are in no way to blame, none of this was your fault, it is a situation that has arisen by the pathetic individuals that are currently in your life.

One thing you cannot change is the weakness of others and I'm afraid that is what you are dealing with, they should change, you TIC have done nothing wrong.

Stand tall in all your decisions and know that you are above these vacuous people and do not listen to the affair apologists as they have no morals, no strength of character, no empathy, no sense of duty or have any moral compass to guide themselves let alone others.

@WanderingLost167

Sounds perverse but I always used to wonder what would have hurt my DH and his DW more, the sex or the fact we shared everything about our lives together. We'd gvie advice on things to do with each others kids, share pictures, talk about work... Sounds the same in this situation, hence the number of messages you found with your DH.

Even now although we aren't involved sexually we are still good friends. He chose to work to stay in his marriage, but we still have a connection.

There's a reason this happened. I'd say if intimacy has ended in your relationship due to him pulling away from you, his emotions are definitely involved. Many people cheat because their partner withdraws sex, but I couldn't have sex with my ex husband when I fell for someone else.

This is awful. Your poor DH and his poor DW if you're still 'connected.'

I'm now thinking things haven't been good because he is mentally somewhere else

I think this is exactly what's happened. He's had his head turned and hasn't been there in any way for you. All he is able to think about is her. And of course your relationship goes flat. Of course you put on weight. You felt something was odd - you didn't know what was going on in your marriage.

Every day for six months that life online with her was what he was living for. You can't trust him again, OP. I really doubt she'll leave her partner for your husband. I do think that's what your husband would want, if you split up.

I think you have to give him the shock of his life. Confront him in the morning, but pack a bag for him first. Tell him you know everything and it's over. You want him to leave immediately. He needs to hit rock bottom on this one and if you let him stay around arguing about what exactly he's been up to, then you'll feel much worse.

I'm now thinking things haven't been good because he is mentally somewhere else

You're spot on there. How can he give 100% to you, his dc and his relationships with you and the dc, if he's spending so much time and emotional energy and headspace on someone else. It's not fair on you and the dc. The fact you know nothing about this also stinks, if he feels he hides it, even by default that he's never told you, means he knows it's wrong.

I agree with a pp, I'd pack him a bag and give him the fright of his life that his actions might have cost him his marriage. You say your relationship is flat, this is why and it's might also be the making of it, if he now puts his energy into your relationship

If my husband told a woman the sight of her dress was making him "flustered" I would end the marriage. Hundreds of messages m, texting every day, laying in the charm. This counts as infidelity in my book and I would never, ever trust him again. Sorry OP