Emotional affair?

[Tic221]

Just a bit of advice really.
I'm at work and thinking about something I saw last night on DH ipad.

Our marriage hasn't been great and lockdown has made it worse.
I was actually considering if we should continue. Nothing particularly bad but I feel we have grown apart too much.

Anyway last night I couldn't sleep so went downstairs at 1am and DH had left his ipad on the kitchen table.
Opened it (innocently) to browse MN and came across imessages.

In a nutshell he has been speaking to a woman for 6 months.
Hours and hours every day.
Mainly evening time as I go to bed early to be up for work at 4am.

From what I can gather, they know eachother through work but don't work directly together.
I've had a look at her Facebook and I don't recognise her. It would seem she is in a relationship too. He has never mentioned her either.

Last night they sent over 100 messages.
Pretty mundane stuff really
New year plans, work, TV etc.

They've sent photos nothing sexual but there are a lot.

They are quite suggestive on a few but not very direct.
Like she mentions his tight jeans on his photo.
He mentions her dress but with a winky face and says it made him feel flustered.

They have not once mentioned me or her apparent partner
But have mentioned I'm passing.
She has one toddler
We have 3 older dc

I'm not sure what to make of it.
They clearly fancy eachother with the photo comments etc
But it isn't sexual and not like they're discussing the lows of their current relationships.
It almost seems friendly but with a subtle undertone.

For me that for 6 months they have messaged eachother every day.
Including Christmas
And speak for hours.

Is this an emotional affair? Or just an unhealthy friendship?

Argh, @LetHimHaveIt almost word for word my story too. Although when the cheeky little cutesie messages started I quickly realised and tried to negotiate and warn him because he wasn’t that ‘type of man’ and he was allowed ‘female friends’! Ha! A lesson I wish I hadn’t learnt.

I then found out I should have gone scorched earth on his arse! @Tic221 no one can tell you whether to stay or go but don’t try to reason with a man in full on cheat head. That’s where the sneaking, lying and power games from the two schmoopies gets worse. And the sex starts… deep sigh.

I read ‘leave by a cheater gain a life’, I stayed (he works his arse off to prove himself) but it really helped me to not apportion blame for his cheating to our marriage or myself.

You are worth more than this @Tic221, he either stays and fights tooth and nail to keep hold of you, or he goes! But never forget your worth!

@tarasmalatarocks

I totally get how you feel OP. 5 years ago I found a ton of poems/songs my H had written about someone who worked for us- ( 21 as opposed to his 40) he had also recorded these ditties onto cd with him singing them. He had lots of work trips with this person too. It had happened 10 years previous over a period of many months and he went to great lengths to stress to me that it was just a crush/fantasy and she wouldn’t have known and nothing physical happened—(and that I don’t know and can’t prove) you know what, it made no difference to me if it had been physical , the fact he sat and spent time writing such stuff about someone else etc was for me heartbreaking as we always had a very close marriage . We didn’t split, but I’ve never in all honesty felt 100% the same and I think you should be prepared for that feeling of not quite feeling the same about someone who gets off on secretive flirty close friendships behind your back , even if that’s all it is. He knows full well he has overstepped the mark

Thank you for posting this response because it's made me realise I'm not alone and I'm normal to feel the way I do. My husband had a fixation with someone he used to work with occasionally, I found loads of google searches of her and her social media was just constantly in his internet history. I also found photos of her saved on hs phone (where he'd screenshotted her social media photos etc). I also found letters he'd written to her but never sent - basically telling her how amazing she was, how funny, pretty etc. Even though he never sent it that seriously stung as he never said things like that to me.

Like you, I'm pretty certain nothing ever happened, I don't think she was even aware of how he felt. But nearly 3 years down the line, I've never felt quite the same and never been able to look at him in the same way. I'm sorry you went through something like this too, but at the same time I'm glad it's not just me and that how I feel is a normal reaction x

I think you are doing amazingly well despite the shit you are going through.
If its beneficial, I am 5 years on from you. I took my cheating husband back. He always minimised the affair but I know how serious it was. He didn't stay with her because he was scared of giving up his comfy existence with me and his son. So, I was the 2nd choice and the safer option.
You'll go through stages, like grief, the first and most dangerous is that you will feel like you have won and beaten the other woman. Believe me, your husband is no prize. As you will be on a high for him choosing you, and he will be trying extra hard, this will keep you happy for a few months. Then the negativity and intrusive thoughts will come and this will stay. You might try to forget them but they will keep coming.
Do yourself a massive favour and bin him off now. Don't choose to live with it. Every day I regret not leaving whilst he was the guilty party. If I leave now, I will be the one to blame as I chose to forgive him but couldn't. He will use that against me. Don't be me. Please.

I'm sorry that you are going through this OP, it must be very difficult. I am glad that you took the opportunity to review the messages again, however hard that must have been, the subtle content of them is key in understanding the depth of the affair (which it is, regardless of whether they have been intimate physically). Your perception of the betrayal is growing in strength as time passes; please take care of yourself and stay strong

I went through similar with DH last year. I have lots of reasons for staying and working through the situation and by doing so our relationship is stronger. Lots of women are quite adamant on mn that their DH/DP wouldn’t cheat but every single one of us is capable of infidelity given our own unique circumstances. I’m not going to go into why DH went down the EA road, it’s long and complicated, but I didn’t think he would because of his reaction to his own brothers infidelity.
Anyway we are good now and able to talk about it without arguing, something we are not so good at with the mundane life stuff.
Mn gives you lots of perspective, but I think the advice to watch how it all pans out (long term snooping) to me is the most cruel. You need to confront him now, you have the evidence you need. I would also message the other woman to let her know you have seen everything. Her reaction will tell you what sort of woman she is. My DH’s OW basically blamed me for jumping to conclusions about an “innocent rekindled friendship”. As time has passed my suspicions re her intentions were correct and she is a clever,manipulative woman. Despite having no idea of who I was and that DH and I were together ( DH and I choose not to be friends on social media due to my professional status) she blamed it all on me.
She has continued to try and engage with DH, very subtle use of sm, unfortunately for her it has really spooked DH who has tried very hard to put it behind us. He is totally transparent about the sm stuff and immediately shows me any attempt to gain his attention. She has visited pubs we use and places we frequent. She was an ex of his 30+ yrs ago so references events and places they shared years ago. It’s all very funny but also a bit “fatal attraction”.

DH has accepted full responsibility and we are moving forward. I’m lucky to be in a position to walk away if I want to. It would be hassle but I’m financially independent. Right from the start DH was aware that he could go and chase his dreams if he wanted to but he’s still here.
We all fantasise and daydream about the perfect life. But that’s often all it is, a daydream, the grass is very rarely greener.

Hope you are ok today op, I know you're probably not as this kind of betrayal is so powerfully harmful.

God how I wished it was a one night stand compared to the friendship, respect, admiration and love he couldn't cover up for this ow, although he tried.
It's unbelievably painful to lose a friend, maybe a best friend and this is where emotional affairs are downplayed, as you can see by pp's it fucking hurts.

There is no single path or right or wrong way to deal with it, only your way, they play out differently and the outcome will depend heavily on his acceptance of his actions and his remorse.

If he doesn't step up then you are in for a rocky ride unless you cut it dead. The crux of it is, is that the affair will burn out eventually, but whether that leads to him moving on with her or wanting to stay, at the moment you have no say.

If you tell him at this point, no doubt it will go underground, so you are left with the realisation that someone who could do this and be so emotionally close to someone else is not your friend, does not have your back and really does not care about your welfare.

Get back close to your family if possible, you will need support, unconditional support as there will be times when you act irrationally and out of character, this is what it does to you, such is the trauma.

But I will say to you and all the pp's who have been through hell and back, time does not change things, at any point after someone has decieved and betrayed you, you can enforce, implant and act on a previous misdameanor.

Never feel as though time has taken away the right for you to right a wrong, or that it in anyway diminishes the pain you endured previously.

You are entitled to change, it is your life.

@IWannaQuitTheGym. Yep, I so get your post, as I’ve said before it’s like a candle being snuffed out— the candle is still there, but that ‘special light’ of connection just kind of disappears — when you realise their head can be turned by someone else. I personally would have found a one off drunk shag easier to make a call on one way or the other. I found emotional infidelity really hard— but then if I am honest I am not that much of a sexual person and value the emotional intimacy with someone far more.

Such sad posts on here and I feel for every single one of you that have been through this.

Thank you all for the time you've taken to write a response too. I'm so grateful.

I feel a a bit hungover today but emotionally I feel angry rather than confused or sad.

It is obvious he hasn't a clue that I can see the messages on the ipad.
She messaged him first today which is unusual looking at the previous messages.
Just a how are you feeling today?

His response was how I would message friends really
Just a " tired and a headache but probably how 80% of the world feel right now"

She said me too.

And that's all for now.

When is he messaging her, is it when he is with you or is he disappearing off to the loo to do it? Does he talk to you and ask about you with the same level of interest or is there just a bit of disinterest between you?

I think he sends the occasional message when I'm around.
But most of the messages are after I've gone to bed.

And yes he talks to me but no not in the same way.
One message he sent to her last week when she was talking about her job is " I think you're wonderful"
If I ever text him I get one word replies too.

So sorry Op this is pretty shit behaviour, even if the messages are innocent. If it was nothing why doesn’t he mention her to you or text openly?

I think you are playing this very well keeping an eye on the ipad and monitoring this. Total respect to you and your diginified silence

It’s awful but you need to screenshot some of these so you can’t be gaslit later when he deletes them.

When I was with my husband I experienced that. Like they can't be arsed to put in any effort with messages because they've got you. But they can be arsed to put in effort to impress other women.

He's living in fantasy-land. Keep monitoring the messages until such time as you are ready to burst his fantasy-land and bring him crashing down to earth.

@PersonaNonGarter

It’s awful but you need to screenshot some of these so you can’t be gaslit later when he deletes them.

OP remember not to screenshot as it'll save to the iPad camera roll and likely his too, dependent on settings.

Best to take pictures of the messages on the iPad with your own phone.

How dare he pretend to her that you're not caring for him.

That's an indirect character assassination created solely for his benefit.

I know it doesn't matter a jot what she thinks of you, but these types of things can grow legs you know, OP. One tiny remark implying that you don't look after him when he feels ill could develop into a pattern in which she showers pity on him b because she believes that version of you, he likes the feeling of her attention on him, then he creates an ever-worsening alternative version of you and before you know it you are the nagging, uncaring, undeserving hag of a wife in their little 'relationship'.

I’d recommend downloading “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass. It’s a quick read and will help you to put your feelings into words. Sending you a virtual hug

@Tic221. Yep I found I was bloody angry when I found the poems/songs— I certainly hadn’t ever received any such thing written for me, despite having worked my arse off and been hugely supportive of him and the songs were full of woe is me, what a bright little light you bring to it etc— they did relate to a time 10 years before I found them but showed me a not very nice side to someone.

@Yummypumpkin

Yes. You're re examining cause and effect.

You are centering your feelings.

You won't get much sense out of him.

MN will say confront him. You won't get a lot of sense because he likely doesn't know what he was playing at, where it was going, how she felt, or how he felt.

The answers do not lie with him.

I would encourage you to live with this for a few days and observe him and get more clarity on what you expect, demand, want and need.

As soon as you have his voice and stories its going to be more difficult to think clearly. You are in control now. Pick your moment.

Yes. I agree 100% DONT confront him. It may be as @Yummypumpkin says.

Or he may know perfectly well what he’s doing and what’s going on and have no intention of leaving you. Because he prefers to have his cake and eat it.

And in that case he will lie until he is blue in the face, then attack you as being the cause of it.

Or try the emotional manipulation game - it’s because our dog died / I had a shitty childhood / my boss is bullying me / my ex cheated on me.

Or the addiction / disability / mental health game - I’m a porn addict / I’m autistic / I have ADHD / I’m depressed so I can’t help it.

Or he may plan to leave you at some later time that suits him so he will DARVO as above.

But the one thing he WONT actually do is acknowledge your feelings as valid, agree to stop seeing her and put the work into your marriage. Which is what many women in your situation hope for and sadly hardly ever get.

Personally I’d take a few weeks at least to work observe, work out what I wanted, what I was likely to get and what I’d settle for.

I’d go for counselling too - it really helps to say this stuff out loud to someone who will not be shocked, who will centre your and your feelings and has no stake in you staying or leaving.

But the one thing he WONT actually do is acknowledge your feelings as valid, agree to stop seeing her and put the work into your marriage. Which is what many women in your situation hope for and sadly hardly ever get

Sadly this is often the case, whilst someone is in the midst of euphoria it's pretty hard to get them to see how much they are hurting you, let alone realise how they are chancing losing their family.

Fast forward after all the mayhem, could be months, could be years, all they are doing if they leave for another life is changing a few details in the play of their life.
Banality re emerges for them as it does with everyone, the only thing is that usually they are leaving behind children and one of the biggest components of keeping you sane and valid during your short time on earth.

Many of these affairs are usually a waste of time and only serve to make the people who undertake them reveal their faulty nature and for others to aknowledge that.

There is no fairytale in life, you are blessed if you find someone who can live a lifetime by not hurting you, these are the real diamonds in life.

It is very hard coming to terms with the fact the person you chose is one of the faulty ones, to look at someone with new eyes and feel disrespect where once there was respect.

You are faultless in this particular scenario, don't allow him to reduce it to an argument, there is no argument .....

He is wrong.
Take as much time as you need to decide what you want.
x

@Tic221

I think he sends the occasional message when I'm around. But most of the messages are after I've gone to bed.

And yes he talks to me but no not in the same way.
One message he sent to her last week when she was talking about her job is " I think you're wonderful"
If I ever text him I get one word replies too.

So I would predict this as his defence line 1: I only really speak to her when you're in bed.

Which both blames you and shows a worrying lack of object constancy in an adult.

Even a child told not to eat chocolate cake, when you leave the room knows, that you still exist, the rule still holds, and the chocolate cake will not uneaten itself.

If you can see what is unfolding on the iPad you always have the option of joining the conversation. If you are clear what you want to do going forward you can just put the cat in amongst the pidgins and watch the two of them try and deal with it but make sure you have photographed their full conversation. Your DH cannot accuse you of snooping as it will come up as posted from he iPad.
You are not really interested in her side since it is entirely your DHs fault that you are involved. He has either deliberately failed to keep the conversation private or just stupid.
A bit of a reality check is a great way of focusing the mind.You cannot Unseen what you have seen so keeping quiet is if no advantage.
Put the ball firmly in his park so he is the one who has to start the conversation.

Op. Tackle this head on with him now. Dragging this out will drive you insane. It's akin to torture.

Festive time is over. Rip the plaster off and get to the bottom of what you want/need in all of this.

@Angrymum22

If you can see what is unfolding on the iPad you always have the option of joining the conversation. If you are clear what you want to do going forward you can just put the cat in amongst the pidgins and watch the two of them try and deal with it but make sure you have photographed their full conversation. Your DH cannot accuse you of snooping as it will come up as posted from he iPad. You are not really interested in her side since it is entirely your DHs fault that you are involved. He has either deliberately failed to keep the conversation private or just stupid. A bit of a reality check is a great way of focusing the mind.You cannot Unseen what you have seen so keeping quiet is if no advantage. Put the ball firmly in his park so he is the one who has to start the conversation.

It's not a game, you know.

I disagree, the whole secret conversation in EA is based initially on fantasy and playing games. Affairs , at the outset, are very much about the thrill. They can develop into proper relationships but at the start it is all about sex and fun, real life never gets in the way.