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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

H ignored choking son

273 replies

whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 09:39

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified.

And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

OP posts:
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 17:53

the inability to accept responsibility is a defence for deep shame and self loathing

I have wondered if this has something to do with his obsessive need to avoid blame. I know his dad was strict and hit him a lot as a child. But his mum was just lovely and full of love and support for her children. And his two siblings seem normal and decent.

OP posts:
GrannytoaUnicorn · 27/12/2021 17:54

[quote thedancingbear]@FantasticCrete what bigoted shit. Neurodiverse does not equal ‘unsafe around kids’[/quote]
I don't think that's what
@FantasticCrete
was saying. You're reading way too far into what is actually being said

whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 17:56

@MalbecandToast

When is his assessment OP?
God knows, waiting lists are extremely long, about two years I think.
OP posts:
GrannytoaUnicorn · 27/12/2021 18:01

@whatdidIimarry I strongly, strongly advise contacting social services. Get this incident DOCUMENTED. Then if there is any court case if you leave him in the future, then due to this incident, they will have to involve CAFCASS who will assess his ability to parent. This will then be fed back to the courts. If the CAFCASS report is startling enough, the courts may well order supervised visitation only.

Either way, get it documented!!

Dervel · 27/12/2021 18:11

A good rule of thumb is psychopathy correlates with low IQ. How bright is your DH? Other personality disorders are more likely if he’s smart.

whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 18:13

@falalalalalalalallama is right. If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem. As utterly unbelievable as that sounds I do think it is the truth.

As for conflating understanding him with caring about him....No. I don't care about him at all. I really don't. He cut his hand badly earlier in the year with a knife and I felt nothing. Well, I did. I felt irritation with the noise he was making. I spoke to a counsellor and she said I have had to emotionally shut down to him to survive living with him, to survive living like this. And I think that's true.

I certainly do not think 'poor man'. Very occasionally I think it is sad that he has basically destroyed what mattered most to him, a happy marriage with me and happy family. He really, really wanted that. I think it was more important to him than his job, and his job is very important to him. But he was completely incapable of acting in a way that achieved that.

Even when I told him what the problems were and what he needed to do to fix things he never did. He never even remembered the conversations. Even though they were repeated over and over. And that is tragic, it is tragic that someone is such an agent of their own downfall and can't even see it, so keeps on acting in such a self-destructive way. But I don't care anymore. I can't forgive him for never recognising he had problem and never seeking help for it. Even if that's not fair as he may have a disorder that makes him incapable of that recognition, I can't forgive it anyway.

Sometimes I get so frustrated and angry that I have revenge fantasies. And in those fantasies I curse him with self-insight.
If he was able to see how he behaves, how it has affected me and how I feel about him, how he has at times made the kids feel, how he has so unnecessarily and so avoidably destroyed things, it would kill him. I can't think of a crueller thing to do to him than that.

OP posts:
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 18:22

[quote FreedomAnniversary]@CustardySergeant

He would get unsupervised contact. My ex has literally caused PTSD in my now FIVE year old and NYAS think it's fine for him to have unsupervised contact which I am fighting. The same people who have told me I am alienating my children for not displaying a picture of my rapist in my home despite my own PTSD.

The family court does not give a shit about children. They fight for both parents to have equal contact despite having evidence that this traumatises the children.[/quote]
I am so sorry. That is just utterly awful. I know that the family courts so often prioritise the rights of parents to parents over the right of the child to be safe.

There are so many, many desperate stories of this, so many desperate stories like yours. Men who are deliberately dangerous. A man who set the mother of his child alight, he bloody set her alight!, still got access to their child!

The whole system is set up to suit men, all men.

OP posts:
JudyGemstone · 27/12/2021 18:22

This video is helpful for describing the less grandiose/excessive traits of narcissism, not necessarily to the level of full on NPD, just traits that make functioning/relationships challenging:

whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 18:30

When he shows normal caring emotions he is acting....

I don't think so. I think he really has those emotions. But when he is being caring he needs to get a 'reward' for it. He would become angry if his attempts at caring were rejected. Because he doesn't have a normal person's centring of the hurting person/ child: them rejecting him would cause a conflict between his needs and their's and he would always centre on his needs in those situations.

OP posts:
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 18:31

Thanks @JudyGemstone I'll look at that later.

OP posts:
SpiderFluff · 27/12/2021 18:34

Do not leave your kids in his care

KurtWildesChristmasNamechange · 27/12/2021 18:37

If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem.

Not to nitpick, but your thread title is H ignored choking son, indicating that he purposefully ignored him. Now you say he didn't realise son was choking, which isn't the same. I'm not trying to trip you up, I'm just worried that you're minimising now you've calmed down. Which I honestly do understand as I often did the same with my exh. I made excuses for him left, right and centre!

I wish you luck OP, it's difficult to know how to handle these things. My exh isn't ND but has zero common sense regarding DC. I am ND and my DCs health, safety and happiness has been paramount.

All the best.

CustardySergeant · 27/12/2021 18:40

OP, how have your children reacted to their father not even turning round when one was screaming for help because the other was choking? They must feel very betrayed that they couldn't rely on him to help them. They should be able to feel safe when a parent is with them.

beastlyslumber · 27/12/2021 18:43

If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem. As utterly unbelievable as that sounds I do think it is the truth.

Honestly, it does sound unbelievable OP, if only because your son was literally choking in front of him and your other child was literally screaming for help and when you confronted him in the immediate aftermath, he showed no interest or care or comfort. According to your account, that is.

The key here is I've seen him do things like this. Yes, he will do things that make him look good when others are watching.

I'm sorry, I cannot accept that he can ignore his own child choking and his own child screaming in terror and panic, and not even look up from what he's doing -- but still believe that he cares really, deep down. I can understand that it's terrifying to confront the fact of just how dangerous a man he is, though. And I have sympathy for your situation because staying or leaving are both potentially risky for your DC. But I wouldn't waste my time trying to understand him or find his humanity, deep down in there somewhere. Focus on yourself and your DC.

TotallyWipedout · 27/12/2021 18:56

@FarDownTheRiver

Those of you who have/had partners who are like this, are there any warning signs prior to having children? Anything that may have been overlooked? I find the thought terrifying and would hate to end up with someone like that.
There were no warning signs at all in my case. XH and I were very happy and had a good relationship for several years before the DC were born.

Before I left him, I had got to the stage where I couldn't leave the children in the same room as him even for a minute. It was horrendous. But not as horrendous as him having unsupervised contact ordered by a court would have been.

MarshaBradyo · 27/12/2021 19:12

How do you know he didn’t just zone out / not react because you were home?

Although not processing probably worse as you can’t trust him at all to react

CustardySergeant · 27/12/2021 19:19

@MarshaBradyo

How do you know he didn’t just zone out / not react because you were home?

Although not processing probably worse as you can’t trust him at all to react

One child was screaming out "He's choking!" in terror and the other was making choking noises in the same room as he was and he didn't even turn round! The OP wasn't in the room so why would he "just zone out / not react" because the OP was (technically) home? He knew she wasn't there to do anything about it.
MarshaBradyo · 27/12/2021 19:21

You misunderstand Custardy I’m not excusing it.

Either way I’d find it hard to forgive and be so angry I’d not be able to stay together.

Pollingbadly · 27/12/2021 19:30

If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem. As utterly unbelievable as that sounds I do think it is the truth.

If the assessment shows a clinical basis for this would you be able to keep contact supervised?

Can I ask... Do you love him?

Pollingbadly · 27/12/2021 19:33

If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem. As utterly unbelievable as that sounds I do think it is the truth.

I suppose the darkest possibility is narcissistic personality disorder with the ability to turn cognitive empathy on and off, isn't it. They can do that.

MrsBaublesDylan · 27/12/2021 20:00

"If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem. As utterly unbelievable as that sounds I do think it is the truth."

It does sound unbelievable. That is the only part I think you've got right.

My very disabled Autistic 11 year old would know if his younger brother was choking. He knew op. He chose to ignore it. Much like you are doing with your husband's behaviour.

summercloudflies · 27/12/2021 20:03

@MrsBaublesDylan

"If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem. As utterly unbelievable as that sounds I do think it is the truth."

It does sound unbelievable. That is the only part I think you've got right.

My very disabled Autistic 11 year old would know if his younger brother was choking. He knew op. He chose to ignore it. Much like you are doing with your husband's behaviour.

I refer you to my earlier response to Spaniels.
RantyAunty · 27/12/2021 20:05

I wish people would stop labeling messed up behaviours as autism.

I think anyone would at least turn around when someone was yelling help help. Same if someone had headphones on or was deaf, if someone tugged on their sleeve to get their attention, they'd turn around.

There seems to be a lot more to this than you're saying.

CeibaTree · 27/12/2021 20:14

@RantyAunty

I wish people would stop labeling messed up behaviours as autism.

I think anyone would at least turn around when someone was yelling help help. Same if someone had headphones on or was deaf, if someone tugged on their sleeve to get their attention, they'd turn around.

There seems to be a lot more to this than you're saying.

Read the OP's updates. This is one of those threads where the OP starts off by saying the husband isn't such a bad sort really, then with further updates you see the true picture emerge. And sadly it is not a good one.
Pollingbadly · 27/12/2021 20:18

I don't think you're minimizing this at all, op. Some people are horrible.